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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to want to know the truth about this?

1000 replies

MNettersForNoahAndFiona · 25/04/2022 14:39

Noah Donohoe was an intelligent, smart, kind and gentle boy. He was 14 years old, the only child of Fiona Donohoe and her everything.

On 21st June 2020, a bright sunny day and as lockdown had eased, Noah set off on his bike to meet up with his two friends to do some schoolwork together, but never reached his destination. Instead, Noah's body was found 6 days later in a storm-drain, naked, in a part of his home city he did not know.

On the day Noah was found, before Noah was formally identified, the Police did a media release stating that there was ‘No Foul Play’ involved. If the police are so sure that ‘No Foul Play’ was involved and that they will not be found wanting under scrutiny, why are they now trying to stop Noah’s mother and her legal team getting access to four files of information on Noah’s investigation?

The Police have applied for a ‘Public Interest Immunity’ certificate, which, if granted, means they can hide four key files in the investigation. Such a certificate is only used in exceptional circumstances and rarely used in the case of a missing child. This certificate has been brought into play in cases where Police intelligence, informers or paramilitaries are involved.

Noah’s mummy has, from the very start of Noah being missing, believed that the police did not use all their resources in finding Noah. This was confirmed when it emerged they had not paid anyone overtime while investigating his death. They did little, if any, forensics and any suspects that were brought to their attention were dismissed as not relevant.

Noah's mummy believes that someone harmed Noah and that there have been serious and repeated failings in the Police investigation of his death. She will never get to the truth and Justice for Noah if she does not get all the information. These four files are vital to get the truth she desperately needs, to find out what really happened to her precious son.

This is a podcast with Noah's mother. It is a hard watch and so a trigger warning may be needed before watching:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRWsr3giWH8

After watching the podcast and the more I get to know, the more questions and doubts I have, and the more difficult it is to believe the police claim of 'No Foul Play'. Noah's death is being treated as a coroner's investigation and the police are not actively pursuing any person or persons in relation to it. Given the lack of a proper investigation into Noah's disappearance and death by the police and their application to keep their files secret, it is difficult to have any confidence in them. In fact, this has been described as their 'Stephen Lawrence moment'. Add to this that Noah's mother and auntie have received telephone threats, are trolled daily online and posters of Noah have been defaced - his face deliberately cut out of them. My own view is that the files must be released and a new and independent investigation begun.

As a parent, a member of the public and a long-standing Mumsnetter, I want to know the truth about what happened to Noah. Even more importantly, I want his mother Fiona to get the truth she needs to be allowed to grieve properly for her son, for Noah to get the justice he truly deserves, for all other children to be safe in the future and to place transparency and accountability where it should rightly be.

AIBU?

This is an earlier thread about Noah, nearly full and so about to close to new posts, but with useful links to newspaper articles and also to a petition in support of his mother:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/petitions_noticeboard/4525759--THREAD-2-Will-you-spare-five-minutes-to-help-the-lovely-Noah-Donohoe-get-the-justice-he-deserves-and-to-support-his-mummy-Fiona-in-getting-the-truth-about-what-happened-to-her-beloved-son

AIBU to want to know the truth about this?
OP posts:
Thread gallery
104
MNettersForNoahAndFiona · 26/04/2022 11:39

AchillesPoirot · 26/04/2022 11:21

I was replying to other posters.
It's a chat forum?

That's fine. PPs were also replying to you too. Posters can choose to reply to or ignore other posters, that's up to the individual.

OP posts:
AchillesPoirot · 26/04/2022 11:40

But the poster queried why I has replied at 3am?

I am disabled and I suffer from nerve pain. I was having a bad night and was awake at 3am and on mumsnet as a distraction. I wasn't aware I had done anything wrong.

AchillesPoirot · 26/04/2022 11:42

*had

Sorry. I have coordination issues and fine motor issues and I am finding the web site impossible so have moved to the app which I am also finding difficult.

MNettersForNoahAndFiona · 26/04/2022 11:45

I've already replied to that - 3am is not the issue for pps.

I'm sorry to hear of your pain. Flowers

As the OP, I don't want to see the thread derailed so let's move on from 3am now please?

OP posts:
AchillesPoirot · 26/04/2022 11:46

You asked for alternative views.

I'm giving a slightly different viewpoint. That is all.

MNettersForNoahAndFiona · 26/04/2022 11:57

Again, that is fine.

Back to Noah and Fiona please?

OP posts:
AchillesPoirot · 26/04/2022 12:01

I've literally been posting about Noah and Fiona.

I am disappointed to not have acknowledgement Of the hurt of the family of Lisa Dorrian.

MNettersForNoahAndFiona · 26/04/2022 12:04

It's interesting to see that currently 85% of 201 have voted YANBU - 170. I have to wonder about the other 30 voters. There are only one or two posters on the thread who I imagine voted YABU.

OP posts:
AchillesPoirot · 26/04/2022 12:04

I haven't voted.

AchillesPoirot · 26/04/2022 12:04

I'm on the app and I can't see votes.

CornishGem1975 · 26/04/2022 12:09

I've read a lot about this case recently and I really hope the family get the truth one day because fuck me, this whole thing reeks.

MNettersForNoahAndFiona · 26/04/2022 12:11

I've just checked and the petition is very much still ongoing. It currently has 305,424 signatures and climbing. The thread with a link to the petition is in the OP of this thread for those who would like to give their support to Fiona by signing or signing and sharing.

OP posts:
placemats · 26/04/2022 12:18

When in Northern Ireland I watched a programme about this and thought it was a disgrace the way the family were treated.

I wish you all the very best and I do think this should be discussed in Parliament.

Much love xx

MNettersForNoahAndFiona · 26/04/2022 12:18

CornishGem1975 · 26/04/2022 12:09

I've read a lot about this case recently and I really hope the family get the truth one day because fuck me, this whole thing reeks.

It's the 'one day' that concerns me. I firmly believe that they will get the truth. This mother should not grow old or die, or other innocent children like Noah die, without it. Noah suffered enough. Fiona has suffered enough and is still suffering. The time for the truth is now.

OP posts:
ReiltinDubh · 26/04/2022 12:19

AchillesPoirot · 26/04/2022 11:02

@ReiltinDubh where have I said any of that?

Apologies Achilles I didn't mean to imply that you had said that. Tone and context hard to get across sometimes!
What I meant was, if we take the argument that what is in the files has to be protected to avoid unrest, are we not therefore saying that protecting those individuals is more important than finding out what happened to Noah?
I'm just trying to understand the reasoning behind the stance.
I know it is a unique situation in the North, I don't mean to offend. But after so many years of peace is it right that society is still functioning in the same way? Change takes people standing up and saying we want better, we deserve better.
It is heartbreaking for every family still caught up in this web of secrecy. Every family should get answers. I'm not aware of the facts of the Lisa Dorrian case but I'll look it up.
I hope your pain is better today Flowers

MNettersForNoahAndFiona · 26/04/2022 12:54

Lisa Dorrian was a young woman murdered in NI in 2005, her body hidden and never found @ReiltinDubh - a campaign has just raised over £60k as a reward for information. There is a lot of hope that it will work and bring some peace for her family. Money talks.

OP posts:
Suzi888 · 26/04/2022 13:05

I signed the petition.

Very insightful post @UrslaB and such a sad case.

MNettersForNoahAndFiona · 26/04/2022 13:45

BurnDownTheDiscoHangTheDJ · 26/04/2022 03:42

I wasn’t aware of this case @MNettersForNoahAndFiona but have just read that the mum was also being questioned over a walk that apparently broke Covid rules in March 2020?! That seems a very odd thing for the police to latch onto. What on Earth?!?! I’ve just read a whole article about the case and feel like I’m missing something, the police look like they’re bungling this case entirely deliberately. I’m so sorry for Ms. Donahue’s unimaginable loss and hope that she gets the Justice that her son deserves.

Yes, it was a walk to support the family on the route Noah had taken on the day he disappeared. It is interesting that the police went after Fiona and chose to direct their investigative time and resources to pursue a grieving mother.

OP posts:
MNettersForNoahAndFiona · 26/04/2022 13:47

Just to add, the walk was 2021, not 2020.

OP posts:
UrslaB · 26/04/2022 14:51

VeganGod · 26/04/2022 01:07

Someone is working overtime tonight, another long post to justify concealing the truth. Honestly, TLDR.

Thinking of Noah and his family. 💙

Ah, confirmation bias on display. When you fail to even read other perspectives you live in an echo chamber where only your voice and those supporting it are heard.

There is a difference between an exploratory explanation and a justification. The latter often gets conflated with the other by those experiencing confirmation bias. A difference that it seems was completely missed. Then again, when you don't read something that tends to happen.

UrslaB · 26/04/2022 14:54

MNettersForNoahAndFiona · 26/04/2022 13:45

Yes, it was a walk to support the family on the route Noah had taken on the day he disappeared. It is interesting that the police went after Fiona and chose to direct their investigative time and resources to pursue a grieving mother.

Yes, this was ridiculous. It was like the BLM protests where the PSNI went after protestors there but at paramilitray funerals, parades and soccer celebrations the police presence was totally absent. PSNI need to get their priorities straight.

It raised issues of police bias and tagreting of the Donohue family and support network in order to quiet their voices. Very distrubing.

UrslaB · 26/04/2022 15:15

MNettersForNoahAndFiona · 26/04/2022 10:19

I think it is a mistake to try to repeatedly excuse the mishandling of Noah's case because of it's location as some pps have done. There are good and bad in all communities, all police services and connected institutions everywhere. There are the good and the criminal, corrupt, racist or misogynist everywhere. It is a tangled web and a toxic mix. We only have to look at London and the Met police for very clear examples. Think about Stephen Lawrence, Bibaa Henry and Nicole Smallman, Sarah Everard. The current NI Chief Constable Simon Byrne was previously in the Met and in Manchester. Immediately before NI he was CC of Cheshire, where he was suspended and investigated on 74 counts of misconduct but subsequently cleared.

To excuse it because of its location is a cop out. It is 2022. This is the death of a completely innocent child.

I don't think its a case of excusing the mishandling. Your conflating the two issues of 1. the failures in the police investigation 2. the witholding of files.

I think everyone could agree that the police royally messed up this invetigation from the start. There really should be a new independent review of the case. Just because it happened in Northern Ireland, doesn't mean the failures in the police response should be ignored. Those should definitely be investigated and the full circumstances of what happened to Noah exposed.

The issue of whether the 4 files should still be witheld is linked to this idea because they may be being witheld to hide incompetence of PSNI or to hide a more nefarious conspiracy. Yet they may not. If they are not then releasing them would actually be another act in a long list of police c*ck ups.

People can agree the investigation was compromised and the PSNI mishandled Noah's case while also recognising that there may be instances where the files may nedd to be witheld.

From my hazy recollection of law, I think eventually some redacted form of the files will see the light of day. However, I don't think that time is now. Perhaps under a civil law case if Fiona takes one she may get access to them through the west midlands wiley case exception.

The problem there is how long that all takes, yet more time, court battles and emotional pain for Fiona and her family. So glad I left law, it really is an ass. Just thinking about the human cost of all this beauracracy makes me want to weep.

MNettersForNoahAndFiona · 26/04/2022 17:54

Good to hear you signed the petition, Suzi888. Yes, it is a very sad case and it is important for everyone to remember that at the very centre of it are a recently bereaved mother and deceased child.

OP posts:
MNettersForNoahAndFiona · 26/04/2022 18:03

are we not therefore saying that protecting those individuals is more important than finding out what happened to Noah?
That is the crux of the matter. Is it right that the life of this child should be seen as accepted collateral damage?

OP posts:
AchillesPoirot · 26/04/2022 18:09

Is it right that the life of this child and all the other people who have lost their lives and whose families have no received justice or any knowledge of even the actual date of death of their loved one be seen as collateral damage?

There's an assessment to be made about the public interest around the files. I've not read them and neither has anyone else here (I assume) so therefore we cannot know what information they contain and whether or not it may or may not be in the public interest to release the files.

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