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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to want to know the truth about this?

1000 replies

MNettersForNoahAndFiona · 25/04/2022 14:39

Noah Donohoe was an intelligent, smart, kind and gentle boy. He was 14 years old, the only child of Fiona Donohoe and her everything.

On 21st June 2020, a bright sunny day and as lockdown had eased, Noah set off on his bike to meet up with his two friends to do some schoolwork together, but never reached his destination. Instead, Noah's body was found 6 days later in a storm-drain, naked, in a part of his home city he did not know.

On the day Noah was found, before Noah was formally identified, the Police did a media release stating that there was ‘No Foul Play’ involved. If the police are so sure that ‘No Foul Play’ was involved and that they will not be found wanting under scrutiny, why are they now trying to stop Noah’s mother and her legal team getting access to four files of information on Noah’s investigation?

The Police have applied for a ‘Public Interest Immunity’ certificate, which, if granted, means they can hide four key files in the investigation. Such a certificate is only used in exceptional circumstances and rarely used in the case of a missing child. This certificate has been brought into play in cases where Police intelligence, informers or paramilitaries are involved.

Noah’s mummy has, from the very start of Noah being missing, believed that the police did not use all their resources in finding Noah. This was confirmed when it emerged they had not paid anyone overtime while investigating his death. They did little, if any, forensics and any suspects that were brought to their attention were dismissed as not relevant.

Noah's mummy believes that someone harmed Noah and that there have been serious and repeated failings in the Police investigation of his death. She will never get to the truth and Justice for Noah if she does not get all the information. These four files are vital to get the truth she desperately needs, to find out what really happened to her precious son.

This is a podcast with Noah's mother. It is a hard watch and so a trigger warning may be needed before watching:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRWsr3giWH8

After watching the podcast and the more I get to know, the more questions and doubts I have, and the more difficult it is to believe the police claim of 'No Foul Play'. Noah's death is being treated as a coroner's investigation and the police are not actively pursuing any person or persons in relation to it. Given the lack of a proper investigation into Noah's disappearance and death by the police and their application to keep their files secret, it is difficult to have any confidence in them. In fact, this has been described as their 'Stephen Lawrence moment'. Add to this that Noah's mother and auntie have received telephone threats, are trolled daily online and posters of Noah have been defaced - his face deliberately cut out of them. My own view is that the files must be released and a new and independent investigation begun.

As a parent, a member of the public and a long-standing Mumsnetter, I want to know the truth about what happened to Noah. Even more importantly, I want his mother Fiona to get the truth she needs to be allowed to grieve properly for her son, for Noah to get the justice he truly deserves, for all other children to be safe in the future and to place transparency and accountability where it should rightly be.

AIBU?

This is an earlier thread about Noah, nearly full and so about to close to new posts, but with useful links to newspaper articles and also to a petition in support of his mother:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/petitions_noticeboard/4525759--THREAD-2-Will-you-spare-five-minutes-to-help-the-lovely-Noah-Donohoe-get-the-justice-he-deserves-and-to-support-his-mummy-Fiona-in-getting-the-truth-about-what-happened-to-her-beloved-son

AIBU to want to know the truth about this?
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Thread gallery
104
Soubriquet · 25/04/2022 14:42

If the police are convinced no foul play was involved, then surely they would release the files to prove that.

The fact they are hiding it, makes me suspicious.

Poor woman. I hope she gets the answers she needs

darlingdodo · 25/04/2022 14:46

Yup, the whole thing stinks to high heaven. Cannot believe the police are being allowed to behave like this.

Fiona Donohoe is a courageous woman and I hope she discovers the truth about what happened to her beloved son.

MNettersForNoahAndFiona · 25/04/2022 15:01

If you vote YABU, can you explain why?

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Georgeskitchen · 25/04/2022 15:17

Yes definitely something strange going on. What do the police have to hide.?

VeganGod · 25/04/2022 15:18

This case is so distressing to read about. So many unanswered questions, lies and things that make no sense in the police version of events. His poor mum having to find the strength to fight for justice after losing her lovely boy, she is amazing and deserves the truth.

Noah 💙

purpleboy · 25/04/2022 15:35

It's baffling the police are allowed to hide the files, they are hiding something.
Fiona has gone through so much already, treating her this way is so callous. I hope so much she gets the answers she deserves.

catandcoffee · 25/04/2022 16:03

Such a tragedy.....#justicefornoah

SheldonesqueTheBstard · 25/04/2022 17:53

💙Noah💙

Ylvamoon · 25/04/2022 18:00

RIP Noah

I hope someone higher up in the police will give his mum & her legal team acess to the files. So in turn they can find out what really happened.

MNettersForNoahAndFiona · 25/04/2022 19:08

Thanks to everyone who has voted and posted so far. It's interesting that none of the 11 people who have so far voted YABU have posted to comment. I wonder why that is?

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2020ihavenoname · 25/04/2022 19:15

SheldonesqueTheBstard · 25/04/2022 17:53

💙Noah💙

Start a petition....???????? Sure we could get over 100,000 signatures so it has to be discussed?.

Workinghardeveryday · 25/04/2022 19:18

That poor woman. They definitely should release those files if they have nothing to hide....

whenwilliwillibefamous · 25/04/2022 19:21

YANBU OP, I heard about this last year when we were in NI and we were like WTAF.

MNettersForNoahAndFiona · 25/04/2022 19:22

2020ihavenoname · 25/04/2022 19:15

Start a petition....???????? Sure we could get over 100,000 signatures so it has to be discussed?.

There is a petition. The link is easy to find in the OP of this thread:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/petitions_noticeboard/4525759--THREAD-2-Will-you-spare-five-minutes-to-help-the-lovely-Noah-Donohoe-get-the-justice-he-deserves-and-to-support-his-mummy-Fiona-in-getting-the-truth-about-what-happened-to-her-beloved-son

It currently has 305,329 signatures.

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MNettersForNoahAndFiona · 25/04/2022 19:28

whenwilliwillibefamous · 25/04/2022 19:21

YANBU OP, I heard about this last year when we were in NI and we were like WTAF.

It is very WTF, I agree.

It will soon be two years since Noah disappeared and his body was found, yet as I understand it his mother doesn't even know the date of his death, let alone the truth about why he disappeared, how and where he died and why his body was found where it was.

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MNettersForNoahAndFiona · 25/04/2022 20:20

It has now been announced by the family today that the Coroner, one Joe McCrisken, is finalising the Public Immunity Certificate as feared - date for its production to be confirmed - and there is another Preliminary Hearing tomorrow by Sightlink, (video). The next hearing date has been set for 21 June 2022, which just so happens to be the two-year anniversary of Noah's disappearance. The family understandably say that they have lost all faith in the inquest process for Noah and will seek further legal recourse when required. They feel that setting the date for Noah's anniversary is strategic and another example of the constant disrespect the state show towards them and Noah. The dates they choose are always significant days in their lives. But despite the sensitivity of the date, they intend to sit in court that day and no be absented from it via Sightlink video.

Another matter is that they have still not had an update on the long awaited and overdue External Police Report that commenced last October.

I wonder whether Noah's cased being in the media over the last few days because of vandalism - aka hate crime - to his photo on posters, politicians speaking out against what happened to the posters and growing numbers on the petition are making the coroner and the police nervous? Perhaps they want to get the PII certificate granted and inquest concluded before more light shines on what they are doing?

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MNettersForNoahAndFiona · 25/04/2022 20:24

Apologies -
Public Interest Immunity Certificate
not be absented

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MNettersForNoahAndFiona · 25/04/2022 20:29

Apologies again. I did preview it too!
Noah's case

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clippety clop · 25/04/2022 20:57

If they are granted this certificate and permission to withhold the four files do they give a reason why? It sounds like a huge cover up!

Butfirstcoffees · 25/04/2022 21:02

Yanbu. This is just awful.

UrslaB · 25/04/2022 21:03

I worked for a short time in the legal system and while I left because I quite rightly aknowledged that the law is often an ass and inhumane, I am unfortunately unable to completely agree with you being reasonable... Possibly. Maybe.

Whether you are being reasonable or unreasonable depends on what is in those files, but that is the crux of the matter. If they are hiding something nefarious such as another grand crown forces cover up worthy of conspiracy websites then of course you are being reasonable. If the files however, are intelligence reports which name undercover offices, intelligence assets and informants in hardline communities in Belfast which were contacted during the search for Noah...then no, you are being unreasonable. Demanding they be released could risk other criminal convictions at best and risk lives at worst.

Sadly, we may never know. Just saying that the files are being witheld because they contain names of informants etc. could start witch hunts for 'touts,' violent interrogations or political unrest inside hardline groups and paramilitary groups. Even if they did not find those sources, the risk to life of just one informant means the law says that such files must be kept back.

Policing in Northern Ireland, especially in Belfast continues to be a complex issue due to the divided nature of the communities which are still rife with armed paramilitaries and intransigent groups who ordinarly refuse to cooperate with the PSNI. It is unfortunatley standard procedure still when investigating any crime for police to contact informants who are members of 'community groups' wink wink nudge nudge.

If the 4 files police wish to withold contain the names of informants then this makes it an entirely reasonable action to withold them. Police investiagting Noah's whereabouts across divided community lines and seeking witnesses amongts individuals who may have criminal histories or poitical alignments which mean they cannot be seen to cooperate with the PSNI would have been guaranteed anonymity. In order to protect future intelligence gathering and to protect individuals from retaliation which could include threats against their lives then these files will remain secret. Northern Ireland has progressed a lot, yet policing on the ground and the hardline communities where intelligence is being gathered still includes real life risks.

However, yes, I am more than aware that such secrecy laws and witholding of documenst has previously been used to hide police failings and even criminality.

It is a catch 22. To be open and transparnet would lay to rest the conspiracies and questions of police failings or criminality...but it could risk future investigations, current convictions and place informants lives at risk.

Even just getting a single exception for Noah's mom to see the files while swearing her to the official secrets act would take...years, a legal battle through the courts and a sympathetic govt. minister. Even then, the PSNI would likely fight it because the idea that an exception can be made is a dangerous concept which may put off future informants. Promising an informant will remain anonymous only works so long as potential informants believe that promise, but if a potential Belfast informant knows that an exception was grnated once...it becomes dangerous. Moreover, if an exception is made and Noah's mom gets the right to see these secret files, this creates another potential security risk because she is now a known potential source of information about leaks and touts for local criminal and paramilitary gangs to pressure or threaten to ring out the names of informants.

So many issues here. It is not as black and white as it first seems. Like most things in Northern Ireland...Solutions are not straightforward or easy.

MNettersForNoahAndFiona · 25/04/2022 21:16

The names and other identifying details of informants can be redacted.

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MNettersForNoahAndFiona · 25/04/2022 21:18

And of undercover officers too.

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tendence · 25/04/2022 21:45

@UrslaB Thank you for a very insightful comment. Lots of things I hadn't thought about (not only related to this case).

MNettersForNoahAndFiona · 25/04/2022 21:49

VeganGod · 25/04/2022 15:18

This case is so distressing to read about. So many unanswered questions, lies and things that make no sense in the police version of events. His poor mum having to find the strength to fight for justice after losing her lovely boy, she is amazing and deserves the truth.

Noah 💙

It is, and Fiona's podcast stays with you too. The thing is, Noah could be my, your, anybody's child. Unless the truth comes out about what happened to him and those responsible brought to justice, it will happen to another child and another. Only three weeks before Noah died, another schoolboy, Flynn Maguire, was set upon. Being a strong cross country runner he managed to escape. It seems that the police response to this at the time and afterwards was woeful. It makes you wonder if that had been properly investigated whether Noah would still be alive today? If Noah's disappearance had been investigated earlier that night, would he still be alive today?

There are so many questions - about missing CCTV and changed timings, missing clothing, bins being allowed to be emptied where Noah was last seen alive, strangely matching witness statements, water samples not being compared, his body being found just before houses were going to be searched, the person found with his laptop in a hostel being allowed to go back to bed rather than being taken in for questioning and forensics done - I could go on.

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