AIBU to wonder why so many people assume Johnny Depp is the good guy and Amber Heard is the villain? ..

[Cowslip4567]

People (from what I am reading in a variety of places on the internet) seem to have decided this even before the trial has been concluded. Presumably, we won't know all of the evidence until the trial ends.

The previous trial in the UK concluded that there was indeed evidence that JD was indeed a wife beater. How come everyone feels that they are sure previous trial had the wrong verdict?

Yes they are

why do her actions need to tick boxes so she fits into what is considered a victim of abuse

i can assure you many woman I have worked with would not be considered worthy of being a victim judging by posts on MN but they have been. for themselves it’s hard to take that on board they are feisty, confrontational, will fight back with all their strength, stay as they believe they give as good as they get (and will have been told this), will have often started arguments knowing the result is a beating, drink and drugs are used as excuses. It’s complex no one is denying that but that doesn’t mean their partner isn’t abusive or they are not victims

"its 2022 FFS, there is no right or wrong way to be a victim, everybody should know this!"

There's a very suspicious way to be a 'victim' however.

Just because someone says they are a victim it doesn't mean they are. We are allowed to not believe someone based on their behaviour and the lies they constantly tell without being accused of being an misogynist or having 'internalised misogyny'. That is a pretty disgusting way to try to win an argument, especially when you don't know the experiences of those who you are smearing with the label.

I recognise the abuser in Heard but not the abused

"if you’re willing to believe this are you willing to believe that maybe she hithim in retaliation to something he started?"

I would be if she was a reliable witness and not a constant and proven liar with a violent history and if I saw any hard evidence of her acting in retaliation.

Before the tapes and other evidence came out I believed her. I believed Depp might have thrown his phone at her in a temper. But she wasn't content with that. She had to go full Jussie Smollett and claim he bust her lip, pulled out her hair, broke her nose and gave her two black eyes. The next day she goes on TV with an obviously perfect face.

I've had a busted lip. I've had hair pulled out. I've had a broken nose and black eyes. I know you can't have all of those at once and look like she did. Makeup won't mask injuries like that. Plus several witnesses say they saw no injuries. She is a liar and I don't believe a damn word she says.

Amber Heard is not your Grandma. Be careful about projection.

All I see is 2 people who are absolutely toxic for each other. Possibly the result of 2 narcissists in a relationship.

From what I've seen, Amber heard is an absolute disgrace however I can't see Jonny Depp being a fantastic partner in a relationship either. I do however think he is a fantastic actor

Even if JD fans believe he never laid a finger on AH, the offensive texts and the videos of him smashing things are domestic abuse.

The texts were not sent to her though. I'm not sure that smashing his own furniture would be domestic abuse. I suppose it depends on a number of factors and that will be up to the court to decide.

I recognise the abuser in Heard but not the abused

and your qualifications in recognising an abuser but not abused are what exactly?

What does a victim have to do then for you to ‘believe’ they are a victim? What are the behaviour patterns that make you go ‘yep, she passes’?

what about a video of a husband being violently aggressive smashing glasses and pouring a goblet of wine being verbally abusive? Oh wait - according to you that’s a fine way to behave (even though you’d apparently leave the house if your DH did this - weird reaction to something that’s ‘not abusive’)

I do however think he is a fantastic actor

but what that got to do with anything? Do people who are good at their jobs get a pass on being abusive?

Is there a universally agreed definition of domestic abuse actually? It's a good question. I'd consider getting pissed and smashing rooms up to be domestic abuse personally. However the emphasis seems to be more about whether he hit her.

So if your partner was so angry, violent and aggressive he smashed up furniture, you’d think that was an OK way to behave?

creating an atmosphere of intimidation is abusive

Smashing up furniture is often used to clearly demonstrates what the person is capable of and that the abuser wants you to keep in mind

@TheKeatingFive Women’s Aid - and I think we can agree as one of the world’s largest and most successful charities for women - define domestic abuse as

”an incident or pattern of incidents of controlling, coercive, threatening, degrading and violent behaviour, including sexual violence, in the majority of cases by a partner or ex-partner, but also by a family member or carer. It is very common. In the vast majority of cases it is experienced by women and is perpetrated by men.”

I mean all the experts they have and all the research they’ve done should really be discounted, because what they should have done is come on MN and listened to a few dimwits with no knowledge of the subject who could tell them EXACTLY what domestic abuse right?

Interesting, thanks

Not allowing someone to leave and continuing to harass them when they want to leave an argument/discussion also creates an atmosphere of intimidation and abuse.

Neither of these two should be considered solely victims of abuse as they are both as bad as each other.

@HRTQueen

Throwing things, breaking things, and aggression taken out on objects versus people is typically asked about in assessments of domestic violence - however it can be an expression of frustration, or a lack of anger management, or poor impulse control while under the influence of substances - it is not always an intentional effort to intimidate. Just like emotional abuse is also part of domestic violence as it financial abuse, control via threats, etc

Yes if your partner throws things or breaks things or gets angry and aggressive, those are serious issues however they are not the same as physical assault.

Totally agree there is no sole victim of abuse here. But it’s not a competition. One does not discount the other. Not saying you believe that, but many people, including posters here, genuinely think that because AH was abusive that means JD wasn’t.

FFS this “worse than” attitude has to STOP. Psychological abuse is no ‘better’ than physical abuse, and because it’s not superficial it has the power to sustain for longer and for a victim to think ‘at least he doesn’t hit me’. It’s so bloody damaging

So if your partner was so angry, violent and aggressive he smashed up furniture, you’d think that was an OK way to behave?

Of course not! I would be really angry at the damage and waste of money. I am not sure that it is necessarily domestic abuse though. I personally wouldn't be afraid that I was going to be hit if my partner did that and if I was I would get out of the room fast rather than watch and film as she did.

an incident or pattern of incidents of controlling, coercive, threatening, degrading and violent behaviour, including sexual violence, in the majority of cases by a partner or ex-partner, but also by a family member or carer. It is very common. In the vast majority of cases it is experienced by women and is perpetrated by men.”

So what about the minority?

In direct response to the U.K. trial verdict they also said this:

The allegations of domestic abuse against Johnny Depp were extremely serious Everyone who has experienced domestic abuse deserves to be listened to and believed.This also applies to survivors who do not fit the image of the “perfect” victim and regardless of the high profile of the alleged abuser.There is no excuse for domestic abuse.”^

I'm listening - if others want to shout misogyny as a shut down tactic then, meh.

@PlasticineMeg

I am not saying there is a worse than at all. You misunderstood me. I was raising that psychological abuse is also abuse - that abuse is not just physical assault - but that if you claim physical assault - then that needs to be proven.

So yes, Amber blocking him from leaving, shitting in his bed, calling him an old fat man, threatning to file a restraining order if he doesn't give her hte moeny she wants etc - yes they are still abuse and domestic abuse but not the same as claiming she assaulted him. Same as Johnny punching a cupboard - yes this is still abuse and domestic abuse but not the same as claiming he assaulted her.

PlasticineMeg

But is does seem like anyone that says AH did this is being accused of either being a JD supporter or misogynist.

It is possible to believe that both JD and AH were as bad as each other.

And there are as many people on MN in various threads on this defending AH as are defending JD.

"Think is the other ‘side’ HAVE said that AH was abusive to him - absolutely nobody has denied that - but ‘your’ side refuse to acknowledge that he was ever so much as unkind."

No they haven't, or at least lots of them haven't. Many are downplaying her violence or claiming it was simply retaliation and is a 'bad victim'.

"Ergo you are simply annoyed more people don’t think that JD, the man with a history of violence (and it doesn’t matter if one of his victims may or may not be a racist, he was still violent to him), is a saint who never put a foot wrong in his marriage"

I'm not annoyed and most people are Depp's side not Heard's. We don't know if Depp was violent to this man. A witness said he wasn't. His is just an allegation and rich stars get them all the time. Even if he did hit him it doesn't make him a wife beater.

I don't think he's a saint. I think he is what the feminists think Heard is, a 'bad victim'. Have you ever considered that possibility?

"Amber Heard is not your Grandma. Be careful about projection."

No she's not and I am careful about projection. But people who have experience with violent, narcissistic women can certainly recognise patterns of behaviour they are all too familiar with.

You would do well to warn all those women who have been hit by men not to indulge in projection. Or does the rule only apply one way?

"what about a video of a husband being violently aggressive smashing glasses and pouring a goblet of wine being verbally abusive?"

In what world is pouring a large glass of wine an act of abuse? Self destructive possibly, if it becomes a habit, but not exactly dangerous to anyone else. If that's your standard for being abusive you've included most people in the abuser category.

The pouring wine early in the morning was one part of the video

if my friend was showing me this video and that was her husband I would be doing the best to help her get away I would like her not to return to a situation (sadly that might not happen as she will love him and want to help)

it’s pathetic the playing down of his actions it really is

it’s a video of a man showing his aggression and being intimidating why because he can and he chooses to

he can self destruct without the aggression