To wish we never had DC6?

[FartVandelay]

We have two DC, 8 and 6.

DC8 has ADHD and while impulsive and a charterbox at times is very sweet and has a heart of gold. I worry about them being taken advantage of at school.

DC6 is a different story. Sneaky, crafty, bullies their sibling, talks back at us, lies and cheats. Yet is a completely different person at school. Their teachers are baffled when we ask how their behaviour is at school compared to home. I have constant battles with food with DC6. Evening meals take hours. They refuse to eat 90% of what I put in front of them regardless of whether they've eaten it before and professed it the best ever. They constantly defy me, hide sweets in their room. I love DC6 so so much but am at the end of my tether. I came close to telling DC6 I wish we'd never had them tonight. Feel like the worst parent. I see all these other families so happy. I was happy when DC6 was born, so happy. I thought our family was complete but if I could turn thr clock back I'm not sure what I'd do. They just make life so hard. I'm exhausted fighting these constant battles with DC6. DH is away with work until Tuesday. I just don't know if I can do two more nights of handling the DC alone. We have no family local and my friends all have their own families to deal with. Is it really this hard?

Gosh this is horrible to read.

why are you being so ambiguous about your children’s gender to start with? It’s difficult to read when you keep referring to them (singular) as they.

The title of this thread is actually very telling. And extremely sad. Your blatant favouritism of your first child is overwhelming so I’m sure your second child has picked up on it. I just hope you don’t ever make it obvious you regret having dc2 (like your thread title).

each kid has different personalities. I’ve got four and each child is so unique. They’re never treated differently. Take your rose tinted glasses off when you look at dc1. That whole cat scenario is just stupid. The pizza scenario is stupid. Your child isn’t a liar because they hid pizza crusts in the bin. They told a lie, yes, but to be made out as a liar?! I genuinely feel so sorry for your dc2. This is heartbreaking really.

I know I sound harsh but hey ho. I was treated differently to my siblings despite my parents claiming they never treated us differently. They were harsh on me and just idolised my brothers. So maybe I’m over sensitive to this. But god, don’t fuck up your poor child’s life just because they don’t act like your first child. Dc2 didn’t choose to be born.

We usually have sports at the weekends and i take one while the other does homework with DH, then we swap. Maybe I can incorporate some treats into this time so we're doing something fun too.
Just re reading this because pp quoted, is a bit ambiguous, but in the light of things and the need for some 'fun' to be added, do you actually mean dc6 is not getting 'fun' at the weekends and is sitting doing homework while dc8 goes out to 2 lots of sports?

Agree with pp don’t do this.

And absolutely no to this unless you are looking to cement your golden child/scapegoat tier.
Especially as who will decide if the behaviour is good or bad in each child!

This is so sad Peekaboo. . I hope your diagnosis helped to turn things around for you. I love your last sentence!

OP I don't think you're trying to be a harsh mother. We're under lots of pressure to produce the perfect child who behaves well, works hard at school, eats all their greens and never tells a fib! And even they don't do that then somehow it's the mother's fault!

If you take some of the pressure off yourself to produce the perfect child, then you might feel better about parenting. My older child is perfect Peter in many ways: kind, compliant, always used to help me etc but he struggles with social interaction and making new friends, even as an adult. My younger one was more headstrong, used to lie, would never sleep, but everybody loves him. Guess which one I worry about more as an adult? But actually he's got a lovely girlfriend and is basically pretty happy, so I try not to worry about him too.

I think you're stressing too much about normal behaviour. Your younger son is still very young and he's got many years to learn life lessons. And let's face it, how would you like someone standing over you with a clock watch forcing you to eat food you hate. I remember being almost sick on my plate when a dinner lady did this to me when I was a child.

Be kind to yourself, lower your own expectations of your parenting and try and accept that your children are different from each other, rather than one being good and one bad. My dad used to call me naughty Yellownightmare right until he died and it upset me every, single time (I asked him not to many times but he thought it was funny!).

*when they not even they

It sounds very much to me as though its not that they need to please the teacher but that they feel they need to act out for attention from you. Your eldest seems to get attention because of their ADHD and naturally a lot of focus is on them. You describe them in your posts much more positively - it is easy to make allowances for someone who is diagnosed and who you're worried about succeeding. It is natural that a neurotypical child can then feel they aren't as special as their sibling or dont get as much attention or see the attention their sibling gets during a meltdown and wants a piece of the pie (but then do not find they get the same response because they don't get the allowances made because their behaviour isn't seen as not their fault due to neuro divergence in the same way- and if they don't get the reaction they're after they try harder). Bad behaviour is almost always for attention. Kids crave attention and if they don't get enough of the good kind but see they get attention when they misbehave they would rather misbehave and be seen than not be seen at all.

I think that they're good at school and 1 on 1 proves this point. They're acting up to compete for attention with sibling. Try and split them up more for 1 on 1. Give them special tasks to do. Praise them in a way that points out their unique special talents separate to their siblings (same for their sibling) so they arent just hearing generic positives but things that are specifically for them. Try your best not to make too many allowances for your other child verbally mentioning their ADHD etc as other child may see this as them getting away with stuff or being preferred or special because of it.

Also I have ADHD. So do half my family. We are all successful professionals. Don't worry about your child with ADHD doing well. We all got diagnosed as adults so had no special allowances or excuses for us and had to crack on. I'm not saying that's the best way to deal with it - you need to give kids the right support which I didnt get - however I do wonder if I would've done so well if people were saying ah x is because of her ADHD and then perhaps not encouraging me to regulate my behaviour like others have to learn or giving me allowances and placing lesser expectations on my behaviour. Be careful you aren't doing that

The other thing to consider is that DC6 is NOT the same child as DC8. He or she is likely to be very different. So forget trying to rememer how DC8 was. DC6 is his or her own person with different needs, history, issues.

The clearing the table (happily) after 20 mins (or however long) if nothing is eaten sounds great, non confrontational and a really positive solution. You could also involve them in preparing or cooking the food a bit so it's more fun. But PLEASE do not use a timer as it'll remind the kids of an exam, or just stress them out.

OP I've seen this in my family when one child got labelled and it ended very badly as the kid eventually just became those labels, thinking he was just a bad kid. I still feel crushed for him. The easy way perhaps is to stop yourself every time a label pops into your head ('hes a liar' or 'hes a bully') and realise you're wrong here - he isn't either. He's just being a little kid. Try to reframe it in those moments as you've gotten stuck in thinking he's a bad kid when he isn't. Kids are so smart, they know which they are if the parents have a 'good' and 'bad' child, without the parent having to verbalise it explicitly. It's always obvious. I'd have lots of alone time, love bomb (both), take the pressure off meal times, lots of affection, and see how that goes.

@SylvanianFrenemies

OP said “talks back at us, lies and cheats” also defiant.

This is not normal or acceptable behaviour - I certainly wouldn’t want to encourage a 6 year old to behave so badly. They will turn into a dreadful 10yr old and then teen.

I speak as a mother of a child of a DS(6) who has ASD/ADHD.

At 4 his behaviour was dreadful at times; wouldn’t share, had temper tantrums, refused to do anything, would only eat two food items, had no friends.

Now he is pleasant, polite, says please and thank you, shares with his peers and us. Very popular with peers. We rarely use the naughty step anymore because he behaves decently and respects us. If he talks back we raise eyebrows and he immediately apologises.

All of the methods I suggested were recommended by medical professionals. And they have helped my son get to a better place.

The chart is not to “analyse food intake”, what nonsense, it is to build confidence in the child that they are able to eat a range of foods and act as a reminder - if the child does have a developmental disorder such as discussed they may have difficulties with memory and linking experiences outwith the present. They need visual representation and adjustment. Discussion of what food textures they have difficulty with and alternatives that can be provided etc so the mother can understand and the child gets nutrition.

Above all @FartVandelay

Your child needs compassion, love and care.

I can’t get over that you’ve spoken this way about a six year old, who neurodiverse or not, quite clearly needs your attention.

People have given a range of advice here and there is a lot to go on. Also mentioned that the pressure to conform within school may result in acting out at home, as will favouritism of an older child…

You need to work with DC(6) to work out the underlying issues to help THEM have a happier life. You’re the Mum, it’s your job to sort it out. 6 years old.

** we NEVER used naughty step for food refusal. That IS a dreadful idea.

It was used if DC was disobedient, hit someone, disrespectful, lied repeatedly. That sort of thing and only as a last resort. It helped regulate his emotions and we’d sit and have a hug and discuss feelings and what happened so he contemplated how his behaviour made him and others around him feel badly. All in all using this technique was short lived as he picked up good behaviour and respect for others pretty quickly.

@Robinni

The OP hasn't said anything to suggest the "talks back, lies and cheats" is anything other than developmentally appropriate behaviour which requires a proportionate response e.g. when my 5yo is cheeky I just say "well that's a bit rude. Try that again please." I don't diagnose her with ODD. Hiding pizza crusts in the bin isnt quite drowning pets and blaming it on your sibling or whatever.

The approaches that worked for your child would be inappropriate for many. As you say, they were recommended by professionals, presumably as part of post diagnostic support.

Punishment and rewards has been shown to be an ineffective and sometimes even counterproductive way of dealing with behaviour, even if it is a commonly used technique.

My youngest (now 7) went through a tricky phase around 5-6. We set clear boundaries about what was / wasn't acceptable behaviour in our home, made it clear those applied to the whole family (I wasn't allowed to be shouty either for example & apologised if I was) & enforced them (with explanations) as consistently as we could. It took time, but honestly it worked. Yes we mixed it in with lots of affection, affirmation of good choices & a bit of self-reflection on our family dynamic (we made some changes too as parents), but we did benefit from setting firm boundaries underlined with...gasp!...punishments (star charts, loss of screentime or treats). Also we looked at all the 'boring stuff' (diet, exercise, sleep routines). One discovery was DS really REALLY needed to burn off energy daily whatever the circumstances or weather.

@SylvanianFrenemies

Completely take your point on board about for when my 5yo is cheeky I just say "well that's a bit rude. Try that again please."

This is the way we are able to be with our son now too thankfully.

Previously it would have been something like “NO I WON’T TRY IT AGAIN, I NEVER WILL, I DO AS I WANT”
with back and forth several times, until we resorted to naughty step. The quiet and lack of stimulation calmed him down and only thing that worked….

but yes now thankfully what you describe is how it is… it was a long road…

I’m presuming as OP is saying they wish their child hadn’t been born and they are making a huge deal out of this, that the behaviour is more extreme and prolonged by contrast to your average 6yr old.

For us it was from 6am - 8pm we got calls from the nursery, he’d hit adult instructors at classes, followed no instruction whatsoever and was purposefully naughty at times. It was constant.

I read various Jo Frost books as at my wits end and that is where I got the idea for naughty step/star chart. The chart on the wall from an ASD/ADHD nutrition book.

When he was undergoing assessment I spoke to the Doctors and psychologists and they agreed the strategies I had used were appropriate and that we should continue incentivising him and give “timeouts” to try and regulate his behaviour/give boundaries where all other avenues exhausted. They gave nearly an inch thick report with extensive recommendations on top of this which is why I think assessment is so important - my child is not severe by any means.

By contrast a relative’s son was indulged with his behaviour and now has very significant problems as a pre-teen.

Am I missing something, you didn't state their genders anywhere but posters are almost unanimously referring to your child as a son?

I just wanted to say your feelings are normal and valid, and you're not alone. It's a huge taboo to acknowledge that you regret having had a child, and so people don't talk about it. But it happens, the fact that you're still thinking of their needs, doing your best, getting up and caring for them every day and asking for help shows that regardless of your personal feelings, you're a good parent and you're trying your hardest. I just don't want anyone to ever feel guilty or alone for feeling as if they regret their child. It's one of societies best kept secrets.

Why are they doing homework on the weekends?!

I don’t like the referrals to masking straight off the bat because it sets out the default position to be something wrong with the child, rather than something wrong with the environment they have no control over. The child may or may not be masking at school but given the information from the OP my money would be on the home environment being stressful and hence the child is acting out at home.

I also disagree with the use of reward charts etc - they just don’t work long term and any good school should be moving away from them and rain cloud/sunshine type behaviour charts/systems. They are no substitute for proper, solid adult/child relationships.

Some children are more difficult than others, they find life difficult, they have character traits that trigger us for whatever reason, they struggle with following rules. Some kids really struggle with being kids and are much better once they get more autonomy and responsibility, others want to be babied forever. We don't get to choose our kids. Some have neurodiversities, sensory or learning issues or mental health struggles that make them harder to parent. One of my kids knows exactly how to press my buttons, and just loves to provoke me and their sibling to yell or cry or whatever. Hard as it is, often that means that child needs our compassion, guidance and unconditional love more than anyone. The child who is behaving the worst is often the one who needs us the most because all behaviour is communication.

That said IME 6 year olds can be the most spiteful, selfish and manipulative little beggars! They are learning all about using lying and manipulation, and their internal moral compass/ conscience has not caught up with the rest of their emotional development yet. These skills are still developing.

I don't have kids so I can't give you any advice for the present but hopefully I can make you feel better about the future.

I am autistic and have ADHD (though it wasn't diagnosed until recently). I was a lot like your eldest child when I was a kid and my parents admit that I was a dream from the day I came home from the hospital and slept through the night. Everything came easily to me and I just cracked on with little supervision.

My younger brother was a whirlwind of destruction, violence and meltdowns. He didn't sleep, he broke everything he could get his hands on, he refused food, he had to be dragged into school kicking and screaming. I remember him and my mum screaming at each other at the dinner table when he refused to do his homework. He was assessed for ADHD and ASD twice as a kid at the school's insistence but nothing came of it. My parents were run ragged.

He is about to turn 26 and is the most chilled-out, quiet, hardworking person I know. It's so difficult to reconcile how he was with how he is as an adult. He is definitely my mum's favourite now!

I know you won't be able to see the woods for the trees just now but whatever you're feeling is valid and I hope you all get the support you need.

OP- you’ve taken a lot on board and I think that’s great.

I also hope you can carve out some time to have a break every week. It will make all the difference to how you feel. It can be so relentless.

@PeekabooAtheZoo

* I was also considered a model student by teachers and I never got caught about the snacks (something I feel deeply awful over now).*

you should not feel awful. You were a child and you were hungry- this was a totally normal and age-appropriate response. Forgive yourself.

Hi. We had foster children who would fight/argue, be unkind (opposite age scenario to you)with each other.
One of the pieces of advice that we took on was to print out an outline of a friendly dog and EVERY day we , and they, would find something nice about the other /each other and stick a spot on the dog. So it could be 'I saw you pick up your sisters book for her' 'you gave me a lovely smile/made your sister laugh /cleaned your teeth/picking up your clothes was so helpful for me'
When the dog was full of spots , however many you want, we did something special as a family . Then start again.

I think you need to read through all your comments on this thread and then list the different points and any others you can think of ...and then consider carefully the patterns of family dynamics/behaviours/responses

Identify the different areas of conflict and difficulty and list them. Make a plan for changing the dynamic in each of those area

eg Food:

• 30 minute time limit; food cleared away
• no bargaining/negotiation from adults re food. Just eat it if you like. No comment from adults whatever happens. Eat you own, wait the half hour, clear it all away. Chat about nice stuff at mealtimes, not food!
• Meal not eaten; no sweets/edible treats. Stated and adhered to. No negotiation.

Things wont change over night though. It sounds like quite an embedded dynamic.

Sorry you are having a hard time. Take care.