To wish we never had DC6?

[FartVandelay]

We have two DC, 8 and 6.

DC8 has ADHD and while impulsive and a charterbox at times is very sweet and has a heart of gold. I worry about them being taken advantage of at school.

DC6 is a different story. Sneaky, crafty, bullies their sibling, talks back at us, lies and cheats. Yet is a completely different person at school. Their teachers are baffled when we ask how their behaviour is at school compared to home. I have constant battles with food with DC6. Evening meals take hours. They refuse to eat 90% of what I put in front of them regardless of whether they've eaten it before and professed it the best ever. They constantly defy me, hide sweets in their room. I love DC6 so so much but am at the end of my tether. I came close to telling DC6 I wish we'd never had them tonight. Feel like the worst parent. I see all these other families so happy. I was happy when DC6 was born, so happy. I thought our family was complete but if I could turn thr clock back I'm not sure what I'd do. They just make life so hard. I'm exhausted fighting these constant battles with DC6. DH is away with work until Tuesday. I just don't know if I can do two more nights of handling the DC alone. We have no family local and my friends all have their own families to deal with. Is it really this hard?

Oh, doesn't Mumsnet automatically create links any more?! That's rubbish!

Here's a clicky link for the fussy eater method Division of Responsibility.

www.yummytoddlerfood.com/the-division-of-responsibility/

OP, your child is only six. He/she is not the problem here. You are. Wishing your six-year-old didn't exist because of fairly ordinary childhood behaviour is disturbing.

I just don’t understand why children are badgered and harassed into eating. It’s so unproductive and stressful. I wouldn’t be able to enjoy a single mouthful of food with someone breathing down my neck “eat the food, eat the food”.

Yes the way that ADHD presents is different due to to sex. It's not just nature (chromosomes, sex) that impacts how ADHD is perceived, however, because gender norms do change the way we perceive certain attributes. And we often place different expectations on children according to their gender. Boys are often expected to be naughtier and more competitive, whereas girls are meant to be well behaved and more accommodating. Girls often aren better at masking not just because of neurological/biological differences but because of societal expectations and conditioning. It's not just about natal sex

I think possibly ASD too, maybe ODD (oppositional defiant disorder)?

three ideas to help:

1. Naughty step: time out, one minute per year of age, no talking, no moving, no toys.
2. Have a big chart on the wall. When DC6 eats something successfully add it (pictorial if possible) to the chart as evidence of that food being acceptable. When they refuse in future refer them to the evidence on the wall. And incentivise them - if you can eat some carrots and potato you will get a pudding/sweets/to watch an episode of fave tv show.
3. Star charts also good given for good behaviour and taken away for bad. If they are eager to please at school this should help

Love bomb your youngest and give them some special youngest privileges “because they are younger”

This is terrible advice.

Naughty step? For what? OP describes normal behaviour. In any case, punishment of a small child without understanding or resolving the underlying drivers is pointless.
Big chart analysing food intake? With a side of anxiety and future eating disorder perhaps.
Better to focus on a secure connection rather than a star chart for an eager to please child.

This thread is grim and depressing.

From the 'golden child'-'scapegoat' dynamic, bedtime performance reviews, and wishing one's child didn't exist because they're disobedient and unplug a kindle... to the medicalisation in replies diagnosing a child with rare neurodevelopmental disorders because they won't eat pizza crust.

Just grim.

The thing that jumps out at me is your adversarial language when discussing DC6.

I particularly noted this comment you made about DC6 When they've had a lovely day we reiterate this at bedtime and say see how great its been. If its been more challenging I reflect back on it with them but always tuck them in and say we can try again tomorrow.

Does DC6 ever just get to be a child without their behaviour being analysed every night and told to do better? They must feel such a disappointment to you. As you're finding, when a child feels like this any attention, good or bad is better than no attention. Why bother trying to be good when they're just going to be told it wasn't good enough.

I don't agree with suggestions (charts etc) to judge the child. Instead try being kind. Have clear rules that apply to everyone - dinner time is eg 30 mins at which point table is cleared etc Don't isolate DC6 and make them feel different to DC8. That will just reinforce to them that DC8 is the favourite and they can't do anything right. Try very hard never to compare them and accept they are individuals and embrace their individuality.

I like the suggestion of involving DC6 with meal preparation. It's something they like and would be nice 1 on 1 time with you.

There is nothing wrong with your child, but you will be disappointed and frustrated directly in proportion to your unrealistic expectations.

Neurodiverse or not, they need you on their side. They need to know they are equally important. And, contrary to popular belief, that does not mean treating them the same, it means treating them as they need to be treated.

All behaviour is communication and I would suggest that your child is telling you exactly what the problem is and you have somehow detached from hearing.

Wrt meal times, the focus here should be socialising, not merely consuming food. It should be a situation that everyone looks forward to, the one time in the day when everyone gets to sit down and catch up.

Maybe dinner needs to be earlier, before everyone gets too tired? Maybe you can forget the food consumption and focus on the conversation?
I guarantee that if you stop focusing on what your child does or does not eat, that the fighting will stop. Initially they will expect confrontation and may even step up challenging behaviour in an effort to create the familiar (unhappy) dynamic but this will pass. Try it. Try making dinner, serving it, sitting around chatting and completely ignoring who eats what. Your children will be physically fine. And your stress level will drop which will automatically make a positive difference to the atmosphere.

in short, ignore as many negatives as you can, fist pump the positives and keep at it. Your bond with your child will strengthen.

Pull a Dumbledore! Saved my bacon many a time. DC6 - I see you lied about x and that is not good, therefore you need to do Y. However, I noticed you did A when I was not arounf and I am very pleased so here is B!

I went through a hard time with one of mine once and I was honestly terrified that I did not like my own child. I would Google what to do about it, only when I was alone, and only on the incognito browser so there would be no record of it. It’s an awful feeling and I never told a single soul.

I started going out of my way to acknowledge everything I liked and loved about him, and spending lots of time one on one with him, when I could.

He’s 14 now and though he gets on my nerves a lot for normal teenage things, I never ever worry that I don’t like him, or that I don’t love him as much as his siblings.

If it hadn’t worked, I’d have signed up for therapy because I was so scared that what I was feeling would impact him, and I didn’t want that. Maybe that would be an option, if you persist in feeling like this.

There's nothing wrong with your child.

This is you.

Did you grow up with someone forcing you to clean your plate or overbearing to be point you didn't feel you could do anything right?

Making mealtimes miserable will lead to eating disorders.

Just serve the food, give a reasonable to time to eat and then clear the table. And ffs, no timer!
Nobody should be sitting at the table for hours fighting about if they ate enough or not.

Have you thought they might sneak food into their room as mealtime is so miserable, they're too upset to eat and they eat in their room in peace?

With the craft, why would you buy two different things? Buy the same thing, problem solved.
With the charger. Put a dual plug in, problem solved.
Those things are so minor and so easily solved I can't imagine why you haven't solved them already??

Have you taken any parenting classes? It would probably be a good idea.
Sorry if I sound harsh but you're an adult and capable of taking feedback and changing because you want to be a good parent.

Hi
I was in a similar position ( many moons ago now) . My DC were younger when I realised I had to change the dynamics because I had a miserable child and I was miserable too . My husband worked away 3 weeks out of every 6 so I needed to be able to control the atmosphere in the house - and to make my relationship with my second DS more positive.
like you , elder child was easy going , positive, compliant soul. In comparison , the younger one was ( seemed ) difficult, defiant but with flashes of being absolutely amazing .
I made a ticks and crosses chart.This may not work with you as yours are older but it may help you.
I gave ticks for good behaviour and crosses for unacceptable behaviour . And looked out for every single bit of good behaviour . So , it went a bit like this :-
when you walked from school you stayed on the pavement - tick ✅ ( ticked chart with a smile and a bit flamboyantly) , when big DC told a story you listened well , tick ✅, when you came to sit down you sat beautifully on your chair tick ✅, when you were eating you picked up your knife and fork really well ✅, at the table you kicked your brother, that was unkind and it hurt him ( all said in same tone and no dwelling ) cross on chart ( I just had a line for each day and wrote ticks and crosses on each line for that day) . During the day I would ‘ catch him ‘ being good ‘ you waited patiently for your kindle to recharge , . ✅ etc etc
sometimes I had to really look for a positive - you walked into the kitchen quietly tonight , ✅ . Any negatives were mentioned in same tone as positives or at least without angry condemnation ( I’m not saying do this whilst dealing with bad behaviour but afterwards when reviewing the day, the last hour etc)
So at the table , bed time etc I would say ‘ wow! Look at today ! Today you had 5 crosses but 25 ticks! How fabulous are you ! I have really enjoyed being with you today and am so proud of you .well done!

I made a big thing of how many ticks to crosses there were. ‘ let’s count … hmm there are 1,2,3 , 4 crosses but so many more ticks . Let’s count the ticks -1,2,3,4,5,6…..14,15,16 ticks!’ So many more ticks, 12 more ticks than crosses ! How fab are you?! ‘
In the beginning it was sometimes difficult to find positives so I made myself look for tiny ones . It got easier as time went on.
My DS was assessed for autism at 8 - and was given a statement of ADHD , dyspraxia and dysgraphia .
I later realised he is a highly anxious child who reacts with anger , shouting etc when he feels nervous, anxious and unsettled.
We did a lot of social stories about what to expect , how to behave in different situations.
My DS has just turned 21 and is a wonderful, funny, warm , kind human being . We laugh because he shares many similar traits to me :-)
This may not be any use to you ( and isn’t brilliantly explained ) but hope it gives you an idea that may help you . Good Luck , I know how tough it can be .

It honestly doesn't sound like anything is wrong with your dc but there will be if you don't get a grip. Jesus when you described them the way you did I imagined a kid refusing any food and sneaking crack cocaine into their bedroom and beating their sibling up and destroying their possesions not throwing a few pizza crusts away and being a bit of a pain in the butt to their sibling which tbh is a little sibling rite of passage. You run the risk of literally giving them major emotional problems and an eating disorder if you carry on being so controlling. My dd is not a fussy eater at all. You know why? Coz as far as she knows I couldn't give a shit what she does and doesn't eat. It's her belly. Food gets taken away if she won't eat it and alternatives not offered, she knows this. Food shouldn't be a battle coz that's a really unhealthy relationship to have with it and if your kid is stubborn enough they'll always win...

It's hard to say for sure but there is zero evidence based on what you've said that your dc has ASD/ADHD. One of the key components for diagnosis of ADHD in particular is that it's happening across all areas of their life including school. You know why? Because if it was affecting their functioning to any significant degree then they'd be simply incapable of masking it at school. Although your 8YO is I'm sure lovely has it crossed your mind that they take more of your time and energy up and therefore the 6YO just isn't getting the time and energy they need and deserve? It's really worrying that you're talking about a very much normal young child in such a derogatory way. I honestly just wish I could jump through my screen and give them a big hug. Sorry but however well you hide this they will know that you feel such contempt towards them and I guarantee that's why they're acting up. Attempt to give it whatever trendy diagnosis you like I guarantee this is the main source of this poor kid's distress. You need to seek practical help even if it's paid babysitting and you need to seriously cool it and concentrate on stepping back and actually enjoying your 6YO IMHO

You are casting your younger child in the role of being "bad". They are younger. It sounds like they definitely also have additional needs but this hasn't been investigated or allowances made as for their older sibling. You will do a lot of damage to them if you continue to focus on the impact of their behaviour on you and their sibling rather than getting to the bottom of what is distressing them and supporting them in a healthy way. Being cast as the "black sheep" won't help them or you or their sibling, it will make things much worse.

Read up on adhd in girls.. My ds presents more on the girls description than boys as he is very inatentive.

It may be the example but i don't eat pizza crusts either.. i don't expect ds to.. i do sometimes buy stuffed crust pizza but otherwise dull.

With lies. I found don't make them lie. You hud sweets in your room, rather than did you ..

I think you do need a reset maybe sit down with dh - what really matters what doesn't. Unless he is underweight, missing a meal won't, kindness does matter.

In terms of adhd/ asd ( which you dc may have) my ds needs downtime to get over behaving well at school. So when he was younger the oark helped, now older will often watch youtube or go on x box or the gym...All help... Do look at what you can do for both children after school.

Try and then review.

Hey op, your child is just a child. They might be very bright, have ADHD and need extra stimulation as they are easily bored. And/Or have some sensory issues.

Or the fact that they're 6 and when they were a toddler the world changed and now they're at school and having to spend 6 hours a day with lots of rules and doing things certain ways and when they come home they want some control and autonomy.

They are not bad or doing this deliberately and as they get older and you all learn to work with their personality better, things will change.

Pick your battles and don't sweat the small stuff.

I agree

One of the key components for diagnosis of ADHD in particular is that it's happening across all areas of their life including school. You know why? Because if it was affecting their functioning to any significant degree then they'd be simply incapable of masking it at school.

Nope. This is SO wrong. You are very misinformed.

At this age getting a sibling into trouble is totally normal, eldest would poke her younger brother in the car so he would scream and I'd tell him off, kick each other when watching TV, hide food they didn't want to eat and stash sweets away to eat on their own so they didn't have to share, wet the toothbrush and swear blind they'd cleaned their teeth, tell tales on each other I could go on with hundreds of examples of how they used to irritate each other and me! I was convinced they'd end up never speaking to each other as adults.

They're grown up now and have just bought a flat together, that's how brilliantly they get on now.

Your children's behaviour is totally age appropriate, that doesn't mean you should ignore nastiness but pick your battles, this too shall pass.😀

You do seem to be categorising your children as Golden Child and Scapegoat in some parts of your OP but then you seem to pull yourself back from that as you recognise what poor parenting that attitude is - clearly you are overwhelmed and the first thing is that it's ok to not always be a perfect parent. We all stuff it up sometimes.

Firstly try not to compare your 2 children - don't keep saying to the younger "why can't you be more like your brother" etc - that never works out well.

Horrible behaviour at home with angelic behaviour at school can mean that school is a hugely stressful and upsetting environment that he navigates through carefully following all the rules to the letter, but the stress of keeping that performance up for 7 hours straight is too overwhelming for a 6yo and when they are home the pressure release comes in the form of acting out aggressively all the pent up frustration from all the negative reactions from the day at school.

You use some quite harsh lables of your child in your op. Primarily he is a child in need of love and security. Something is going wrong and some need isn't being met, the symptoms of which is negative behaviour that is obviously unacceptable. Don't label the child, label the behaviour, and seek the root cause. The cause is definitely not some flaw in the child

And please, please, PLEASE @FartVandelay dont tell you 6 year old you wish you never had them, no matter how mad you are. What are they suppose to do with that information?
when they’re old enough to understand what you meant, it might be too late to repair the damage it
caused.

I'm not misinformed at all it's literally one of the criteria for diagnosing ADHD