To find my 10 year old niece obnoxious

[Fawncard]

I love my 10 yo niece with all my heart but sometimes I don't like her very much.

I can't really explain it but it's like her personality is a little off. She comes across as very loud and almost arrogant when I know in reality she is actually a very insecure child.
I took her to the cinema at the weekend and during parts of the movie she shouted out unfunny "jokes" I asked her to stop as she was disturbing other patrons but she continued to do it a few times and afterwards I heard her telling her mother (who wasn't with us) how everybody in the cinema was laughing at her jokes
If we are out for a family meal she will dominate conversation and ask to sing which her parents always shush the adults to allow her to sing (she has a decent singing voice but does anyone in a restaurant want to hear a 10 year old singing Ed sheeran songs!!)
She doesn't have many friends at all and a lot of my friends kids actively dislike her.
She is not my kid so I don't know how I'm supposed to help here? And can you even help if a kids personality is like this? Her parents think she is the best thing since Sliced bread

a real character but if you are feeling brave mention the lack of awareness - possible autism - to parents - it is all very late in the day at the age of 10
surprising school havent noticed but not everyone knows everything, she is probably quieter at school

Most children would know by the age of 10 that you don't shout out jokes in the middle of a film in a cinema. Could she have any special needs? Or is she seeking attention because she feels that it's all going to her younger siblings? How does she act at school?

Why didn't you tell her off during the cinema outing OP? The first outburst I'd have told her that she needs to be quiet in the cinema, so that she doesn't disturb people watching the film. If she did it again I'd have told her off and given her a warning that if she does it again we'd have to leave. If she'd done it again, we'd have left.

For our family the cinema is an expensive treat and I'd be upset if another child behaved this way and ruined the film for us.

I also don't understand why you didn't tell her parents afterwards how badly behaved she was?

Secondary school won't necessarily "sort her out" because she might not realise how irritating others may find her behaviour, especially if her parents are encouraging it.

It might be that she never fits in... and then, given how indulgent the parents are, they're just as likely to blame the school.

Sadly, she may also be a target for bullying at secondary school if she hasn't learned that things like solo singing during mealtimes etc... is not everyone's cup of tea.

Has she been told so often that she’s an amazing singer that it’s become an excessively huge part of how she sees herself?

Can you redirect her, or arrange activities where she can’t sing, or give her clear “you can’t do xyz here, do abc instead and xyz in the car on way home” or whatever.

Impossible to diagnose possible ASD online, but either way sympathetic support to learn social norms would be positive: it doesn’t sound like she HAS to sing or HAS to shout out during a film, just that she really wants to and doesn’t see why not.

I agree with others. Raising some flags here. Neurodiverse present differently to boys and are often diagnosed later. I'd be suggesting assessment, though it's a long old bumpy road.

you would do her a favour op by pulling her up, one to one, on her inappropriate behaviour.
someone needs to and it may as well be you!

@thinkfast

Why didn't you tell her off during the cinema outing OP? The first outburst I'd have told her that she needs to be quiet in the cinema, so that she doesn't disturb people watching the film. If she did it again I'd have told her off and given her a warning that if she does it again we'd have to leave. If she'd done it again, we'd have left.

For our family the cinema is an expensive treat and I'd be upset if another child behaved this way and ruined the film for us.

I also don't understand why you didn't tell her parents afterwards how badly behaved she was?

Each time she did it I asked her to "please do not shout in the cinema you are disturbing people" but she just said "no I'm not people think I'm funny" I acknowledge I should have taken her out when she continued to disturb people. My niece herself told her mum that she was shouting out hilarious jokes and that everyone thought she was hilarious. Her mum was laughing she doesn't see an issue with it and is not embarrassed by her.

Sounds like she has some sort of autism or similar maybe exacerbated by no one telling her the truth.

My niece herself told her mum that she was shouting out hilarious jokes and that everyone thought she was hilarious. Her mum was laughing she doesn't see an issue with it and is not embarrassed by her.

At this point, could you have spoken up and said you wouldn’t be taking her again until she understood how to behave?

I'd have her tested for autism, sounds very much like it and girls mask it much better than boys

Whether there's additional needs or not she's not going to learn appropriate behaviour if her parents are not addressing it. If she continued despite effective parenting trying to address it then that would point more strongly to ASD/ ADHD, but with parents positively encouraging it and needing to push for attention at home, you'd need to see a lot more traits to get a referal taken seriously. Ultimately a diagnosis just results in being handed a load of leaflets and being left to crack on and parent anyway.

In my youth groups, we've had children like this and with patience and regularly reinforcing positive expectations, we usually get good results. We praise the good and remind about what is expected.

I'm forever having to remind my DCs how to behave. DS1 has ASD himself, but when he's getting going, it rubs off on DS2 and they both need clear expectations, incentives and consequences. I can't just let them crack on with it as it's not fair to other people in the vincinity and ultimately not fair on them if they aren't taught how to behave in different situations.

As a relative, you can't "cure" her behaviour but you can be clear about your boundaries. She will be used to different boundaries in different situations.

Each time she did it I asked her to "please do not shout in the cinema you are disturbing people" but she just said "no I'm not people think I'm funny" I
acknowledge I should have taken her out when she continued to disturb people.
My niece herself told her mum that she was shouting out hilarious jokes and that everyone thought she was hilarious. Her mum was laughing she doesn't see an issue with it and is not embarrassed by her

I know it's a reach but could the mother be neurodiverse as well ? (Ducks as is acussed of diagnosing the world)

My children have ASD. They don't behave like this but they do say and do things that make me cringe at times as their social radar is off and they struggle to know how to interact. But I correct them, we talk about it and we talk about why people reacted how they do. The best thing about diagnosis for my kids is that we can be do much more open, they know they struggle at times because of autism, and WANT to learn to get it right but they need to be taught as it won't just come naturally with time. And it takes a very long time to get through.. there is no point getting cross , we try and expose them to environments where they will make mistakes but are supported.

Sounds like she is spoiled but not in a way which is building her self esteem and thoughtfulness of others. Not her fault, but very sad.

She had been involved in a drama and dance club but I don't think she's going to that anymore I'm not sure why.

It may be money, but...I've run singing and drama classes for young people. It's also possible that she went to the club expecting to be the star of the show, teacher's pet, all the other kids in awe of her, that she'd always get the lead roles, hated it when it was someone else's turn to perform. And when it wasn't like that, she didn't want to go any more (because the teacher is mean and is too stupid to appreciate her outstanding talent).

I had the odd one like that. The parents were similar.

It's too late. This child is King and is holding court - your needs are entirely irrelevant. This stuff can only be addressed by some significant 'bringing down a peg or a hundred'. But this is not the culture we live in and that would bring 'shame' on the poor dear. There are many of these children about now. We are often expected to sit and listen to the child witter and make stupid conversation and do stupid awkward things while the parent smiles and laughs disproportionately to build up the dear child's confidence.

I'm really afraid of this that she'll be hated by her friends in high school. She's a bright kid, but her parents think she is a genius and basically tell her as much so she often comes off as if she is better than everyone else the funniest, the smartest, the most talented..... that's not a good look

Her parents are literally setting her up to become a narcissist. Trouble naturally reading social cues + absence of firm behavioural boundaries when she acts in a socially unacceptable way + being constantly told how brilliant she is at everything and not given realistic feedback on her performance is pretty much the mathematical equation for over narcissism.

The solution is to implement firm boundaries whenever she acts up, praise her for signs of pleasant and thoughtful behaviour, be kind but realistic when giving her feedback and explain social understandings very explicitly because she doesn't pick them up naturally.

Don't be afraid to disabuse her of grandiose and entitled opinions like "No they don't, everyone thinks I'm funny." You say, "No, I'm afraid other people don't think it's funny and I don't think it's funny either. If you should out again we will leave immediately. If you're quiet like everyone else in the theatre, we can stay and enjoy the movie."

I would never advocate bullying by peers as a way of managing a child’s challenging behaviour. You’ll end up entrenching any unhelpful defences she has; if the parents are as you describe all they’ll do us say the other kids are jealous; bullying ain’t even that rational - she might become the bully! My hunch would be that the poor little blighter is confused and insecure. She may be encouraged to ‘entertain’ at home to the point that she doesn’t get it that she can’t do so everywhere. You sound intimidated to challenge mum and dad, OP, and I wonder why? Likewise, gentle but firm challenges to the child are not something to avoid. Cinemas are places for quiet is the message. If she can’t be quiet, you have to leave. It’s possible she’s neurodivergent, but difficult to say based on that one trait. She sounds as though she’s been pressured to occupy a certain role in her family for whatever reason. It’s not fair to allow her to persist in behaviour that will earn resentment.

She sounds a bit like my ASD 10yo dd. She can be annoying, definitely, and needs a lot of support in her communication. She really can't judge what is appropriate. However, as a parent I can, so I don't let her shout out, sing etc in public. She does it enough at home! At this stage she would not do these things because I've never allowed it and we talk frequently about what's appropriate. It's hard and she's often the worst behaved child somewhere,but she is learning. She desperately wants to fit in with her peers but struggles - so sometimes it's not enough to want to.

Regardless of additional needs, the parents need to teach her how to behave. As the adult in charge I would expect you to tell her off or remove her if she wouldn't behave.

@VapeVamp12

She's going to be on X Factor in a few years with a mediocre voice and then her parents are going to shout at Simon Cowell when she gets four no's

Those kind of acts and worse make me shout "why didn't your parents tell you the truth?" Cruel to be kind and all that.

Op can’t take her niece for an autism assessment. It’s not an easy thing to even bring up to her parents.
You sound like a a really caring Auntie. All I would say for next time if you ask her to stop and she said people didn’t mind say no if you carry on we are leaving then go.
Even if parents indulge her there’s nothing wrong with having your own clear rules. I have a pep talk with my Guides age 10-13 before we go out along lines if you must listen to leaders and follow our rules, I don’t care what your mum lets you do on my watch I’ve got to keep everyone safe.
Don’t stop talking her out it sounds like it’s a huge positive for her.
Feedingthebirds that’s my hunch on drama and dance too.

@bookworm14

How depressing that someone assumed this girl must be an only child. Hopefully the fact that she is the eldest of 4 will cause that person to reassess their lazy, stereotypical view of only children.

Exactly, this kind of attitude about only children fucks me right off

Her parents are just crap. Sorry I know that’s your family.
I think that if you do have her over to yours for a movie you should specifically tell her why she can’t go to the cinema. Lay it on thick. You can’t take her if she can’t be quiet. Nobody wants to hear what she has to say. They have paid money to be there. End of. If she promises to be better next time you will consider it. Try again and if she misbehaves just take her home.

Regarding restaurants etc I would speak to her Mum. Nobody wants to here her sing. Her grandfather was right. If she doesn’t tell her to shut up next time you will. If she sings tell her to stop and she is disturbing people. You don’t have kids but that doesn’t mean you aren’t entitled to an opinion.

@Craftycorvid

I would never advocate bullying by peers as a way of managing a child’s challenging behaviour. You’ll end up entrenching any unhelpful defences she has; if the parents are as you describe all they’ll do us say the other kids are jealous; bullying ain’t even that rational - she might become the bully! My hunch would be that the poor little blighter is confused and insecure. She may be encouraged to ‘entertain’ at home to the point that she doesn’t get it that she can’t do so everywhere. You sound intimidated to challenge mum and dad, OP, and I wonder why? Likewise, gentle but firm challenges to the child are not something to avoid. Cinemas are places for quiet is the message. If she can’t be quiet, you have to leave. It’s possible she’s neurodivergent, but difficult to say based on that one trait. She sounds as though she’s been pressured to occupy a certain role in her family for whatever reason. It’s not fair to allow her to persist in behaviour that will earn resentment.

I tried to say something a couple of years ago about her singing in public and was told that I don't have kids so don't understand that this is what kids do that's why I'm wary of bringing it up.... it's kind of like I'm criticising their parenting and what do I know about raising kids. We are kind of a non confrontational family so bringing something like this up with them would be a big deal