To find my 10 year old niece obnoxious

[Fawncard]

I love my 10 yo niece with all my heart but sometimes I don't like her very much.

I can't really explain it but it's like her personality is a little off. She comes across as very loud and almost arrogant when I know in reality she is actually a very insecure child.
I took her to the cinema at the weekend and during parts of the movie she shouted out unfunny "jokes" I asked her to stop as she was disturbing other patrons but she continued to do it a few times and afterwards I heard her telling her mother (who wasn't with us) how everybody in the cinema was laughing at her jokes
If we are out for a family meal she will dominate conversation and ask to sing which her parents always shush the adults to allow her to sing (she has a decent singing voice but does anyone in a restaurant want to hear a 10 year old singing Ed sheeran songs!!)
She doesn't have many friends at all and a lot of my friends kids actively dislike her.
She is not my kid so I don't know how I'm supposed to help here? And can you even help if a kids personality is like this? Her parents think she is the best thing since Sliced bread

I think the best thing you can do is be a real adult with her, questioning, discussing, chatting, finding conversational ways to talk about how social interaction and etiquette work, how to make and keep friends. Be a source of good advice and a good mentor. I'm sure a lot of us could have done with one of those when we were young, daft and blessed with adoring parents.

I honestly don't think this sounds like a child who struggles with social skills or communication difficulties, I think it sounds like a child who has a very strong desire to always be the centre of attention. I suspect she is one of those children who would rather have negative attention than no attention. I don't think that's necessarily part of a disorder - some people (whether children or adults) are just like that. And her parents are making her worse by indulging it and praising her. We had family friends whose son was a bit like this when I was a kid - he absolutely monopolised every occasion to the point where everyone in the room except his mother would be embarrassed by it. His sister once confessed to my mum that she had stopped inviting her friends round because of it.

This sounds so much like my ex step daughter who is nearly 9. She would put her face literally in your face so they'd be touching just to get your attention solely on her (not only child, has a younger sister and I'm pregnant with her half sibling although her dad and I are no longer together). When my teenage son turned his head away from her head on his trying to get his attention, she spat on him. She spat on him another 2 times after this. (This led to her dad and I breaking up at 30 weeks pregnant). Children like that are really difficult to manage when they're not your own and one thing I saw in their family was nobody ever addressed it. Their mum and I met for coffee one day when I first met my partner so she knew who would be around her kids - she said "my own kid annoys the hell outta me" 😳 discipline and boundaries were missing from both mum and dad but unfortunately that's nobody elses place to implement (even if you did, it wouldn't work if mum and dad don't do it). Secondary school will absolutely shock her in to behaving better.

She is one of 4...
She needs to fight to be seen and heard
All the time

That's why she is so annoying. Puberty and middle school will sort her out. I wouldnt take her to the cinema again if were you.

@10HailMarys

I honestly don't think this sounds like a child who struggles with social skills or communication difficulties, I think it sounds like a child who has a very strong desire to always be the centre of attention. I suspect she is one of those children who would rather have negative attention than no attention. I don't think that's necessarily part of a disorder - some people (whether children or adults) are just like that. And her parents are making her worse by indulging it and praising her. We had family friends whose son was a bit like this when I was a kid - he absolutely monopolised every occasion to the point where everyone in the room except his mother would be embarrassed by it. His sister once confessed to my mum that she had stopped inviting her friends round because of it.

I agree that some people are just like that. My friend was a similar child, outgoing, confident, into drama and singing, always taking over. It's a pain in the arse. She's not as annoying now at 40 but is still extremely confident and is a stage performer and singer. It's just her personality.

"When my teenage son turned his head away from her head on his trying to get his attention, she spat on him. She spat on him another 2 times after this."

I missed the bit from the OP where spitting at people was mentioned.

She's going to be on X Factor in a few years with a mediocre voice and then her parents are going to shout at Simon Cowell when she gets four no's

the school raised some concerns about her "correcting" the teachers which again is inappropriate behaviour.

@Fawncard

This is really difficult, but as you aren't the parent, I don't know what you can do, if the parents themselves don't see any issues.

A failure to understand social niceties is common in children with autism. DS once stuck his tongue out at the Deputy Head and had no idea that it was unacceptable behaviour. She was an ogress and no other child in the school would have dared to do that.

DS was diagnosed with autism when he was nearly 8.

@Underhisi

"When my teenage son turned his head away from her head on his trying to get his attention, she spat on him. She spat on him another 2 times after this."

I missed the bit from the OP where spitting at people was mentioned.

OP didn't mention spitting I was just saying in my experience with a nearly 9 year old, it can get worse. But it's nobody's job to discipline apart from mum and dad (and even if we tried, if mum and dad don't discipline and guide, our work will be undone)

@VapeVamp12

She's going to be on X Factor in a few years with a mediocre voice and then her parents are going to shout at Simon Cowell when she gets four no's

It's outing so I cannot elaborate but you have no idea how close to reality you are with that comment

Sounds like her behaviour is being encouraged by her parents. They’re not teaching her appropriate behaviour.

When with you, all you can do is manage her behaviour. Ie. If she continues to talk loudly during a film, warn her to stop or else you’ll leave, and then if she continues, leave. She’ll probably create as she won’t be getting used to her own way, but so be it.

I know a 10 year old a bit like this. He has spent his whole life listening to his parents boasting about him, but at the same time not actually being very interested in him (he definitely craves attention) & often making him feel like crap to his face if he doesn't live up to the unrealistic expectations they have of him. He has never been allowed to be less than perfect at anything (even though he obviously is). The sad result is an incredibly obnoxious child who winds up other adults and flits from being this incredibly boastful kid to a really quite sad kid who is (bluntly) emotionally manipulative if he doesn't get his own way (starts saying how everyone hates him etc.) Until recently he had quite a few friends, but his friends are more and more annoyed with him now & increasingly see through his boastful behaviour and need to be the centre of attention. It's quite sad. He undoubtedly has really low self esteem despite all the "look at me" behaviour.

I second that if you can afford it paying for her to go to a drama club, not only will it give her so output for her performance desires but may help her competitive side/delusions of grandeur when faced with other children who are equally or more talented than her as well as giving her a social outlet.

Also wanted to say it's refreshing to see so many people standing up for the stereotyping of only children.

She could possibly have ASD

My niece was very like this. It was poor parenting in her case. We hoped it would sort itself out at high school but she ended up bullied and now at age 16 has no friends. She lives in a different country to me, a long way away, so there is nothing I can do to help her, but it is sad to watch. If you see your niece regularly, maybe you can try to guide her a little?

Is it possible she has stopped the clubs with other kids because, as you said, money is tight. Do you think you could step in and fund one of these activities where she can interact with other kids?

I agree with others that she may have some SEN if she corrects people because she sees the world as very black and white.

"I think maybe just pizza and movie in my place will be the way to go moving forward."

yes ... plus a cunning choice of film on your part perhaps OP?
If you can get her to calm down and trust you she might open up and then you can tell her some truths about what works and what doesn't.

You can't discipline her but you can model a different kind of relationship that is still unconditional. You need to get her to the point of telling you stuff then you can just tell her simple truths in a non-judgmental way like "sometimes the more we try to get people to listen to us/like us the less they do"

also agree with the parent of the autistic child upthread who pointed out that it helped for her child to be informed of how life works.

There's a good book called (I think) "The art and science of making friends" which talks about reputation, etc.

@PolitePlantPot

I know a 10 year old a bit like this. He has spent his whole life listening to his parents boasting about him, but at the same time not actually being very interested in him (he definitely craves attention) & often making him feel like crap to his face if he doesn't live up to the unrealistic expectations they have of him. He has never been allowed to be less than perfect at anything (even though he obviously is). The sad result is an incredibly obnoxious child who winds up other adults and flits from being this incredibly boastful kid to a really quite sad kid who is (bluntly) emotionally manipulative if he doesn't get his own way (starts saying how everyone hates him etc.) Until recently he had quite a few friends, but his friends are more and more annoyed with him now & increasingly see through his boastful behaviour and need to be the centre of attention. It's quite sad. He undoubtedly has really low self esteem despite all the "look at me" behaviour.

I could have written this except it's a girl and a bit older. Since starting secondary she has no friends and is bullied mercilessly. It's just so bloody sad! Poor kid, I feel awful for her. It's not her fault at all.

Thanks for all your insights I'm going to talk to my sister (DN mother) and offer to pay for the drama club I know she used to enjoy going and I'm not sure why she stopped going.

I am going to be a little less accepting of her behaviour from now on and just try to explain why we don't behave like that (in a nice way). I know there is a lovely sweet kid in there if she would just stop showing off

I wouldn’t assume additional needs/communication difficulties tbh. Plenty of 10 year olds can be silly and irritating but it’s up to their parents to teach them that there’s a time and a place for their “hilarious” 🙄 comments and not to take over in every situation. Unfortunately when it comes to their own little darlings I think some parents don’t realise that what was cute or funny (or even just bearable) at 6 isn’t so much at 10.

My nephew is like this and has been for years (he’s nearly 12). No additional needs just a mother who encourages him to think he’s the centre of everybody’s world and that his observations, opinions, preferences and conversation choices deserve to be heard above everyone else’s. I’ve reached the point where I try to limit how often we do things with them because I find him so tiresome and it annoys me that we’re all supposed to sit through lunch or dinner while he performs. I have a 10 and 12 year old and they just don’t get a look in while we’re all expected to be enthralled by him.

I sound horrible I know and I do love him but I can’t believe my sister is this kind of parent! Funnily enough she has very little patience for the slightest behavioural misstep from other children …

A couple of months ago we brought the three dc to an exhibition. Age appropriate and something they’d wanted to go to but you know, a quiet-ish thing. He spent the whole time doing ninja style leaping and kicking around the area, hiding behind pillars and jumping out at us with a high kick. Did my sister tell him the behaviour wasn’t appropriate? Did she fuck! She took out her phone to record it, laughing her head off. He didn’t pick up on my face-like-a-slapped-arse “visual cue” because his mother was already making it clear his antics were perfectly acceptable and even to be applauded.

My son still can't read a room OP, or pick up on non-verbal stuff. It's not necessarily indicative of SEN but it's definitely part of the way my son's autism presents.

If her siblings aren't like this it probably isn't a parenting issue. Having said that as a parent of a child like that I think we can get a bit used to them so even though its mortifying at times it's just "normal". I know other people have a far lower tolerance of his tics and stuff - levels I wouldn't make a fuss about not least as when you draw attention to what he is or isn't doing he instantly starts doing it 10 times as much because he's in a (literal) flap at that point so I know it's better to choose my battles with him just to get through a situation.

Have you been in the restaurant with the family when your niece wants to sing? You should really point out that it's obvious that the other people there don't want to hear her. Maybe next time say something beforehand? I must say, if I were in a restaurant being asked to be quiet for this reason I would be very tempted to tell the parents to take their little prodigy outside if they are so desperate to hear her.

DD went to school with a girl like this in primary.
When we joined the school we were warned to keep DD away from her because she was a bit of a "performer" and didn't quite grasp what was and what wasn't appropriate.
We didn't listen, and the child monopolised every situation that she could. If there was an assembly, whether it was whole school or year it would turn into (girls name) show.

Children didn't much like being around her, and parents would find it annoying because we knew that she would manipulate every school event to be about her. Think of singing at the end of every assembly, or a dance performance, or a story about her family, or a poem that she had written.

They went out as a group when they finished primary, this child again monopolised the entire outing. When the girls tried to move on the situation from her, she tried to say she had lost her money, and had the girls searching the town for the money she had "lost" she told them that they could all pay her some of the money she lost.....then found it in her purse.

When they went up to Upper school the children that she did know from primary wanted nothing to do with her, and she hasn't managed to find new friends. She has stopped with the attention seeking. She's spoken to DD a few times in the past few years, she's very unhappy. They attend different schools, but we've driven past her quite often, she's always alone.

Your DNs parents are not helping her at all.

My nephew was similar at that age - I used to be mortified going out in public with him as he was badly behaved, attention seeking, and LOUD. If he wasn't getting enough attention he would shout loudly 'look at me I'm going to tell a joke / sing a song', repeat facts that he'd learned in school really loudly, swear or bang his cutlery on the table, or try and jokingly steal money out of my purse / grab my phone / tickle me etc. Anything and everything for attention, he couldn't stand it if the spotlight wasn't on him all the time. Like your niece, his parents thought the sun shone out of his arse and wouldn't bat an eyelid.

A few years on he's a delight and a perfectly normal teen - so there is hope! I think high school knocked it out of him tbh.