To have felt irritated by my friend’s children today?

[Chickalick]

Not sure if I’m being unreasonable or not to be be honest.

DH and I (who for context don’t have children) went for lunch today with friends of ours and their two DC. Youngest is 5, eldest is 11.

I just didn’t enjoy it and have come home feeling really frazzled due to their DC’s behaviour. I should probably preface it by saying they weren’t being horrendous but neither of them would stay seated for more than 5 mins at a time, constantly bouncing around on their seats, up and down around the table. Youngest kept ear piercingly shrieking every 5 mins and then giggling as they thought it was hilarious, it was like nails on a chalkboard. Eldest kept shouting when they talked (they have a tendency to do this in general) and it was deafening. Youngest kept stabbing their fork repeatedly into the table and eldest started chucking their chips at the youngest which then encouraged youngest to do the same.

I just felt like it was chaos and could feel the diners next to us getting annoyed. It was the noise, just constant really LOUD shouting instead of talking from the eldest or shrieking and silly wailing noises from the youngest. Youngest constantly wanting to get up and run round the restaurant. Us adults could barely hear each other and I just wanted to eat and get out of there ASAP.

To add, parents did tell them to stop each time they shrieked, started chucking food etc but they would stop for about 30 seconds then start again and I think they got fed up of telling them in the end so just kinda gave up. They whipped out an iPad in the end and gave it to them but then they put some game on with the volume on loud and both started shrieking and baying each other when the other was beating them etc.

We’ve just got home and I said to DH that I just didn’t enjoy the meal and won’t be in a hurry to do it with them again. I said it’s like they were feral and had never been taught to sit at the table and eat. He thinks I’m being unreasonable and said that’s just eating out with children, they’re noisy and hyper and there’s not much you can do.

Is he right?

I have 2 boys one age 11 one 7, they hate eating out due to restricted diets, don’t see the joy or treat in eating out either. They’d pref to stay home - they play up when we are out - due to boredom
and lack of interest. We don’t go out often because of this. It’s hard and I always feel so conscious so we avoid where possible.

No boundaries = Shit parenting

My youngest two DC are 7 and 11 and would never be allowed to behave like that.

I would only excuse that sort of behaviour if there were SEN issues that affected their behaviour. But even then there needs to be an attempt to have words with the children away from the table, consequences explained and followed through if need be.

@UnsuitableHat

Yanbu to feel like that, I’d have felt the same, but I do think restaurants are boring for kids.

But at those ages, surely they can behave for an hour? There's absolutely no excuse for an NT 11 year old to be throwing food around.

My boys could behave like this. We avoid eating out as much as possible! I definitely wouldn't suggest it with friends for a catch up anymore. I spend most of the meal telling them to sit down, be quieter, stop doing this or that, I would definitely pass them an iPad once they've finished. It's really stressful.
They've got ADHD, ASD, SPD etc etc. however I don't think most adults would know that. They don't look or talk differently to other children!
It's quite possible for their to be SEN and either be unaware or it be unidentified (I wouldn't announce it in a restaurant or necessarily tell all my friends). So no I don't think it's 'normal' behaviour for children those ages but try not to judge. Maybe just don't go to a restaurant with the whole family again or lower your expectations if you need to!!

Some people have noisy kids, some don't. Yes it's a lot to do with parenting but honestly it's just luck of the draw for what you get with a lot of stuff.

My little girl (then 2) went with us to a restaurant with almost my whole family for my dad's 70th last year. She had duck from the menu and her behaviour was impeccable. The most rambunctious thing she did was near the end ask to be held for ten minutes because she was getting tired.

Everyone constantly commented on how well behaved she was. I just said "I know she's lovely, isn't she?" and various other stuff, while thinking to myself "it's definitely nothing to do with me!" - it's just the way she is.

I've never once had to tell her any different, and just instead praised her in doing well.

I definitely just got lucky. Maybe your friends weren't so lucky in that regard?

My daughter on the other hand was a late walker, and still in nappies at 3yo because she can't master toilet training yet. So it's swings and roundabouts. I wouldn't be at the next table judging.

YANBU, completely unacceptable behaviour from that age children. To be honest I wouldn’t expect toddlers to through food around on purpose.
I was out for lunch yesterday with friends and their children, a few 4 year olds and a baby. There was no shouting or screaming. The elder ones were colouring and making Lego/playing top trumps and baby had toys.

YANBU Mine weren’t angels and at those ages had some poor table manners (fingers instead of cutlery), and could be fidgety and a bit moany. I suppose we did tend to time meals around them, rather than expecting to sit through a leisurely three courses. If we were out with friends or relatives I’d have taken mine off for a walk.

I’d find what you describe too much and wouldn’t be rushing to go out with them again.

Went out with a friend recently whose dd is the same age as ds(6yo). She was an absolute brat. Really horrible behaviour. My poor friend tried really hard to be firm with her. I felt our entire outing was so awkward because we would stop every few minutes for my friend to have a few firm words with her. We arranged a prior activity for this week, and my friend canceled. I think she felt very embarrassed about her dd behavior. I'm relieved though, as even my ds said he doesn't want to play with her again and I would have cancelled in any case.

Like fuck is that acceptable from even a 5yo.

Yanbu, I’d advise NOT having kids with DH if this is what he classifies
as ‘normal’

My sisters kids aren’t much better. The worse thing about this is altar she and I were raised by the same parents so I KNOW what was and wasn’t allowed at the dinner table. She sat there and was totally ineffective.

I wouldn’t subject myself to your friends kids again, if you REALLY like her, do evenings so they get a sitter. And say, “I’d prefer an adult only dinner tbh, otherwise we won’t get a chance to have a proper natter”

I have friends with a Klingon dc, and it is sooooo fucking irritating to not be able to talk at all, about anything because the DC won’t give you a second of peace. Of course they think dc is marvellous…

All that fidgeting and shouting sounds like ADHD to me.
Lots of judgmental people around to blame it on bad parenting, but some kids are just wired differently and fucking hard to parent as a result. If yours have always been perfect little angels, then you have no idea what it's like.
And if you've got SEN kids of the more "sedate" type, then you have no idea either.

My dd is autistic and could never manage to behave appropriately during a meal out until she was about 14.
However, we enjoy eating out as a family, so did so.
It just meant that one of us had to be 'on duty', which would mean continuously taking dd outside, or off somewhere to look at a book, having their meal go cold etc etc.
But we never let her disturb others, or if she did so, was taken outside quickly.

Your friends should have been more responsive to their dc's behaviour and not let its spoil a meal. The 11yr old should be able to behave better than that.

No way would I do that again. Their behaviour is appalling.

@Comedycook

I'd expect a meal out with children that age to be reasonably peaceful. They're not rambunctious toddlers

I’d say that behaviour would be ridiculous for toddlers too! I’ve taken my DCs 4.5 & 3 out for a few meals recently. They are perfectly capable of sitting calmly at the table for at least 45 minutes. I might not push them past that without colouring books and/or parents taking shifts to let them run around outside. But if they’d thrown food (???) then one or both parents would be taking them straight home.

@RobotValkyrie

All that fidgeting and shouting sounds like ADHD to me. Lots of judgmental people around to blame it on bad parenting, but some kids are just wired differently and fucking hard to parent as a result. If yours have always been perfect little angels, then you have no idea what it's like. And if you've got SEN kids of the more "sedate" type, then you have no idea either.

Oh Please. Why is it always the case that the child must have some Sen? Some kids are just badly behaved! Op even says the parents are wishy washy.

They sound feral. A child of 5 or 11 should not be behaving like this.

My three year old who will likely be diagnosed with some sort of SEN in the not too distant future wouldn't even be allowed to behave like that. The second food throwing began they'd be out. As a parent you don't just give up when your parenting technique isn't working. You try something else till something works. No wonder they didn't listen to their parents, they knew they just had to outlast their will power.

I can almost understand it from an excitable 5 year old but an 11 year old?? No way. My brother and I have the same age gap between us and if we had behaved like that, my mum would have just marched us home.

The shrieking especially would absolutely do me in. Babies do that when they're finding their voices - there is no need for a school-aged child to scream!

I bet people cringe when we go out. 4 dc. They behave. Or they wouldn't be invited!!
Turned up dc free at a swanky pub a few weeks ago. Died when I saw toddler triplets at the table behind us!! They behaved impeccably and hats off to those dps!! They did throw a few chips which dm gathered up and wiped the table down.. Df took 1 to the loo. No bother at all! Your friend is bu to accept that behaviour.. Suggest an 8 pm meal next time at a dc free restaurant!

URNBU. Pity the poor restaurant too - cutlery stuck into the table? Food thrown around and other customers probably pissed off. Kids on the continent don't behave like this in restaurants, so it is hard to see why it happens here.

Yanbu. They should have been trained, starting from a young age. You say the parents gave up - it should never have come to that.
DH and I went to a hotel in Spain where the clientele were mainly Dutch and German families. We noticed how well-behaved all the dch were. I suppose it's a cultural expectation.

Are you sure there are no additional needs going on here? My oldest has ASD and possible ADHD and I always try to avoid eating out with her as I know she can't handle it.

If you want to meet them again, pick up a nice takeaway and go to their house.

At those ages they should be able to behave better than that!

Don't go out for lunch with them again. It doesn't sound like anyone enjoyed it. Ds is 15 and due to his learning disability and ASC we never do leisurely eating out. It is eat and go. He can be noisy himself but can't cope with others making a noise so it is always fun (not).

I don’t think that behaviour is ok, but I do think often people expect a lot from kids when they take them out to eat. Unless they’re included in the adults’ conversation throughout the meal - in which case it can’t really be an adults’ conversation - it must be incredibly dull for them, unless they have something else to entertain them. Adults don’t sit silently staring into space waiting for their food - they talk to other adults, look at the menu, get their phones out.

Mine are only toddlers but when we go out to eat I take loads of things to help entertain them - water colouring books, sticker books, etc.

You're not being unreasonable at all. I have a 7 year old and an 11 year old and I would never accept behaviour like that. 5 years old is still quite little, but still plenty old enough to know that throwing food, stabbing the table and shrieking is unacceptable in a restaurant (or anywhere).