To have felt irritated by my friend’s children today?

[Chickalick]

Not sure if I’m being unreasonable or not to be be honest.

DH and I (who for context don’t have children) went for lunch today with friends of ours and their two DC. Youngest is 5, eldest is 11.

I just didn’t enjoy it and have come home feeling really frazzled due to their DC’s behaviour. I should probably preface it by saying they weren’t being horrendous but neither of them would stay seated for more than 5 mins at a time, constantly bouncing around on their seats, up and down around the table. Youngest kept ear piercingly shrieking every 5 mins and then giggling as they thought it was hilarious, it was like nails on a chalkboard. Eldest kept shouting when they talked (they have a tendency to do this in general) and it was deafening. Youngest kept stabbing their fork repeatedly into the table and eldest started chucking their chips at the youngest which then encouraged youngest to do the same.

I just felt like it was chaos and could feel the diners next to us getting annoyed. It was the noise, just constant really LOUD shouting instead of talking from the eldest or shrieking and silly wailing noises from the youngest. Youngest constantly wanting to get up and run round the restaurant. Us adults could barely hear each other and I just wanted to eat and get out of there ASAP.

To add, parents did tell them to stop each time they shrieked, started chucking food etc but they would stop for about 30 seconds then start again and I think they got fed up of telling them in the end so just kinda gave up. They whipped out an iPad in the end and gave it to them but then they put some game on with the volume on loud and both started shrieking and baying each other when the other was beating them etc.

We’ve just got home and I said to DH that I just didn’t enjoy the meal and won’t be in a hurry to do it with them again. I said it’s like they were feral and had never been taught to sit at the table and eat. He thinks I’m being unreasonable and said that’s just eating out with children, they’re noisy and hyper and there’s not much you can do.

Is he right?

This is not normal in my opinion. My DS's are 11, 7 and 3 and they sit still in restaurants and eat nicely. Absolutely no getting up unless it's to use the restroom. I'm not saying they aren't occasionally loud but we just tell them to use their quiet voices and they do.
Sitting at the table nicely is basic manners. Cannot stand going out for a meal as a family and seeing others shoving tablets and phones infront of their kids faces to keep them quiet or occupied. Eating together is the perfect opportunity to communicate with your children. This is a hard no from me. Our DS's have asked but we've always said absolutely not and they accepted that. Family members have often complimented us on DS's tables manners.

I'd be absolutely mortified if my children behaved like this and I have boisterous children! Its not normal behaviour at all. We were out for dinner last week and the family next to us had three children walking around the table using a yoyo that played loud, obnoxious sound effects every time the string unwound. It was horrible. I also hate when parents don't monitor the volume their children have the screens on.

When me and my siblings were younger we absolutely were not allowed to act like that when out for a meal!

My boys are 13 and 8, I would be mortified if they acted like that but they do fight with each other a lot and if you were trying to have an adult conversation it's not out of the realms of possibility that they could act like that. They would be fine with other kids there as a buffer of with grandparents and they could get some individual attention but it certainly doesn't sound like it was fun for anyone.

This sounds like toddler behaviour. Definitely not what I'd expect at 5 and 11.

Mine are similar ages. My youngest DC is older though then your friends child and any meal out with mine I feel stressed lol. My youngest is loud and cannot sit still. I'm now wondering if others feel how you do when I eat out with them

Definitely wouldn't of tolerated this with my kids. I would have swiftly taken them to the toilets and let rip at them. Once home no screen time or treats of any kind. Lazy parenting !!!

No it isn't normal, if they have been brought up with love, discipline and to be all round decent people. My youngest knows how to behave in a restaurant and to be honest if my 11 yr old couldn't sit and behave themselves at a meal out, I'd be looking at myself and wondering what the fuck I'd done wrong!

@MummyMayo1988

This is not normal in my opinion. My DS's are 11, 7 and 3 and they sit still in restaurants and eat nicely. Absolutely no getting up unless it's to use the restroom. I'm not saying they aren't occasionally loud but we just tell them to use their quiet voices and they do. Sitting at the table nicely is basic manners. Cannot stand going out for a meal as a family and seeing others shoving tablets and phones infront of their kids faces to keep them quiet or occupied. Eating together is the perfect opportunity to communicate with your children. This is a hard no from me. Our DS's have asked but we've always said absolutely not and they accepted that. Family members have often complimented us on DS's tables manners.

Sometimes you don't want to communicate with your children, you just want to eat your food or communicate with the adult friends with whom who you are out. In which case screens can be very useful. Not every meal out is intended as a family bonding experience and I suspect the OP would have been happier if able to chat with her friends in peace without their annoying children interrupting. I remember my siblings and I sometimes being put on a separate table with our books and games consoles (those little handheld ones) when our parents were out with friends and it was considered fine for us to amuse ourselves however we wanted so long as we didn't disturb anyone.

I have 4 children, they do NOT behave like this when we're out! I'd have been frazzled too, they do indeed sound feral

I’ve never experienced this when eating out with kids and have very rarely witnessed it with other diner’s kids. I don’t think it’s normal.

@NeedSomeHeadspace

Curious to know why you are on Mumsnet if you don't have children? It can't be relevant to you really, especially if you are just griping about other people's children?

You are aware how big these boards are and the substantial amount of non-child related topics that are covered aren’t you? You’re also aware that if you google most problems or scenarios, threads from Mumsnet often come up. There are A LOT of non-parents on Mumsnet.

My kids are 6 and 3 and they certainly don't behave like this when we take them out - I'd be annoyed with that too

Yanbu. Don’t understand why people let their children behave like this in a restaurant (or even at the dinner table at home). It’s basic manners.

My youngest (now a teenager) really struggled with eating out when younger. Generally he was well behaved in other situations.

I think it was a combination of the unknown, not knowing what his meal would look like, and being hungry.

When he was like this he would wind his well behaved brother up.

Just don't eat out with them again, I agree it sounds pretty awful for everyone.

Not acceptable behaviour to me either. We always take a pack of cards, a game like Dobble, a set of Dominoes, that sort of thing. Lots of fun while waiting and also learning to play fairly. We join in though, and it's now a family tradition even though they are teens.

It depends - if it was as bad as you describe. For instance ‘deafening’ - I doubt it. Was a very family orientated eatery? If it really was as bad as you say then YANBU but I’ve got 4 children and I find other peoples kids get on my nerves. If I had none I’d have zero tolerance.

Nothing worse than badly behaved children with lazy parents

I can easily imagine a similar post if the family in question actually decided to parent these kids in the extreme manner adviced by so many in here . If these parents just stood up in the middle of conversation with the OP and went 'nah this is not working with our kids, we got to teach them a lesson right now, so we are leaving'. Then everyone would be saying how bloody rude this family is and why had they arranged the lunch in the first place then. They wouldn't be labelled lazy but rude. Or if they would have opened up a box of Monopoly or Uno because that's what they do to stop their kids from playing up instead of evil iPads and phones which seem to annoy people just as much as any noise coming out of children. I rarely arrange formal meetings in restaurants with friends but if I happen to stop in a cafe and my kids are not behaving their best (which happens because kids cannot be trained to be robots) I just apologise to people sitting next to us and explain that they are overtired. I never repeatedly tell my kids to 'stop it' in front of other people or threaten them outloudly just so others don't think I am a lazy parent. I do it in private when we are outside so they know I don't intend to humiliate them in front of others but to teach them all the same things and how to be considerate of others but in private. This approach is very common in Scandinavia where crying or bisbehaving children in public is considered a part of life and people just get on with it.

And this is really what you think parenting should look like?

Why should some people's inability/unwillingness to control their children trump the rights of other people to enjoy a meal in peace?

Oh, and iPads/phones can be muted, btw, a fact of which many people seem oblivious when letting their kids play on them in restaurants.

Children of that age should be able to sit quietly and eg read or draw at the table

I wonder if they eat family meals together at home? That's a great opportunity to model good behaviour

How old are your kids? Explaining away an 11 year olds poor behavior as being 'overtired' wouldn't cut it for me.

You're conflating the notion of teaching kids good manners and how to behave as turning them into robots. This is absolutely not the case.

I think you’ve just learned what doesn’t work for meeting with those friends.

We all know kids make noise, need to move, aren’t aware of social etiquette when young. However, our kids needs aren’t more important than anyone else’s desire to expect to eat without food being thrown, excessive noise etc, life is about equal respect. If kids are tired then rearrange something more suitable where they can move about a bit without disturbing others. I have four kids and if we can’t rearrange then we would have taken whatever kid was struggling to stay sitting out for a short walk for a distraction.
Colouring or drawing pads, puzzle books or similar are what we would have taken from a very young age so they had something to do.

All kids have days when they are tired, unsettled, needing to move more. Meeting kids needs isn’t about allowing them to do whatever they need wherever they are at the expense of all those around them. It’s about not trying to achieve the impossible ie. being quiet for an hour while adults have a conversation.

You are not being unreasonable. You can’t change your friends’ parenting so put it down to experience. If they offer the same again then suggest something different, say that it’s too long for the kids to sit and you didn’t get to chat much.

You're not being unreasonable, some kids are like this in restaurants. Some are great though. We avoided going out with some families with kids when my kids were young. On the other hand I am of a generation where most restaurants did not have kids in them unless they were holiday cafés when I was a child. Luckily I had my kids young before I was shocked by some behaviour of other people's kids.

I am not sure I would invite you again, how stressful for your friends that you were judging their children just being children. The dc were probably bored with the adult conversation and took it upon themselves to entertain themselves. It would be better to go out just with adults going forward you are obviously not into children and don't really understand them properly.