To have felt irritated by my friend’s children today?

[Chickalick]

Not sure if I’m being unreasonable or not to be be honest.

DH and I (who for context don’t have children) went for lunch today with friends of ours and their two DC. Youngest is 5, eldest is 11.

I just didn’t enjoy it and have come home feeling really frazzled due to their DC’s behaviour. I should probably preface it by saying they weren’t being horrendous but neither of them would stay seated for more than 5 mins at a time, constantly bouncing around on their seats, up and down around the table. Youngest kept ear piercingly shrieking every 5 mins and then giggling as they thought it was hilarious, it was like nails on a chalkboard. Eldest kept shouting when they talked (they have a tendency to do this in general) and it was deafening. Youngest kept stabbing their fork repeatedly into the table and eldest started chucking their chips at the youngest which then encouraged youngest to do the same.

I just felt like it was chaos and could feel the diners next to us getting annoyed. It was the noise, just constant really LOUD shouting instead of talking from the eldest or shrieking and silly wailing noises from the youngest. Youngest constantly wanting to get up and run round the restaurant. Us adults could barely hear each other and I just wanted to eat and get out of there ASAP.

To add, parents did tell them to stop each time they shrieked, started chucking food etc but they would stop for about 30 seconds then start again and I think they got fed up of telling them in the end so just kinda gave up. They whipped out an iPad in the end and gave it to them but then they put some game on with the volume on loud and both started shrieking and baying each other when the other was beating them etc.

We’ve just got home and I said to DH that I just didn’t enjoy the meal and won’t be in a hurry to do it with them again. I said it’s like they were feral and had never been taught to sit at the table and eat. He thinks I’m being unreasonable and said that’s just eating out with children, they’re noisy and hyper and there’s not much you can do.

Is he right?

Honestly it sounds like the kind of thing my just three year old would do and I am very conscious of it and constantly correct his behaviour, he is getting better. My older kids, no way and those ages it’s really unacceptable.

Shrieking/shouting - absolutely not, my DS is 4 and we have never let him shriek or shout in a restaurant, one of us would take him out for a bit when he was really little, then if he wouldn't calm down we'd leave (if on our own) or tag team (if with friends/family). At 4 though he knows he's not allowed to make a lot of noise, and he doesn't. Bouncing/fidgeting - yes, he does that sometimes, that's normal for a 4-year-old.

I'm amazed the parents allowed all the shrieking/shouting, it's not OK to piss off the rest of the restaurant.

YANBU to be irritated. My children never behave like this inside or outside of the house and if they ever did it would be the first and only time!! I truly despair and what I can only put down to bad parenting. If the parents want a break and to have a meal then they should arrange childcare. Not properly dealing with the bad behaviour only enourages them to do it more - I don't think this is the first time they would have behaved like this and the 'stop it stop it' every 30secs was obviously being blatently ignored.

And before I get berated by people saying 'well it's kids and that's how kids behave' I'm sorry but that just doesn't wash with me. It's more down to the parents and what they will tolerate and ignore and expect other people to put up with.

@Chickalick

Promise it’s not a reverse also prepared to be told I’m being unreasonable. I don’t spend a lot of time around children so don’t have a lot to compare it to. I totally get that it’ll be more noisy and disruptive with children, just didn’t expect that level of noise and disruption.

Nope you aren’t being unreasonable. I’ve been today with my 6 and 4 year old and they’ve been fucking horrendous- I could’ve actually cried they were so awful. In the end we actually left it was that bad

I honestly don’t know why we bother. So no, you aren’t being unreasonable. I’ve know doubt I was judged today but I did my best but it wasn’t enough so we just left

Unreasonable not to like it? No. Unreasonable to expect anything different? Maybe. DD11 is fine in restaurants and has been since age three so long as she has the attention of an adult. If I were out with just her, fine. If I were out with friends and one of them was all about her, also fine. But if I were out with friends who didn’t engage her, or just expected her join in with me as part of an adult conversation, she’d be either plugged in to something, or a PITA. It’s not something I expect of her these days.

In future, arrange to go somewhere where there is something for the kids to do, so they can go off and be play while the grown ups talk. Grown ups are super-boring when you are small, and sitting for a long meal even more so. It’s setting them up to fail. Even an picnic would be better, imho.

@MissChanandlerBong80

I don’t think that behaviour is ok, but I do think often people expect a lot from kids when they take them out to eat. Unless they’re included in the adults’ conversation throughout the meal - in which case it can’t really be an adults’ conversation - it must be incredibly dull for them, unless they have something else to entertain them. Adults don’t sit silently staring into space waiting for their food - they talk to other adults, look at the menu, get their phones out.

Mine are only toddlers but when we go out to eat I take loads of things to help entertain them - water colouring books, sticker books, etc.

I get what you mean, but the conversation pretty much totally revolved around them (which was fine, even I realise that’s the best way to keep them entertained and included) but they were still being silly and acting up.

I think perhaps my tolerance level for this type of thing is lower than other people’s I had to really bite my tongue at one point when the youngest started stabbing their fork into the table AGAIN. I don’t feel comfortable ‘disciplining’ other people’s children.

No, you are not unreasonable. I just think having a meal with someone's children doesn't work unless you also have kids, or really don't mind having chaotic time.

@ClaudiusTheGod yeah. We eat at a table, they are up and down, trying to bring toys to the table, shouting over each other. Kick each other under the table. Me and DH spend the entire time telling them off. Naughty step. Time out. Face the corner. Etc etc. it’s soul destroying. I don’t know what to do with them tbh.

Unacceptable behaviour and ineffective parenting by the sound of it.

I absolutely cannot tolerate this kind of shit.

As the parent of a 5 and 10 year old nope nope nope nope. It is not normal. I would be mortified. Sometimes the 5 year old wants to tell me endlessly about his latest dinosaur/earthquake/human body fact in a loud voice and it’s a tricky act between wanting to teach them how to take part in a conversation which I think is a really useful skill and wanting some adult conversation myself. But shrieking, throwing food, loud iPad games- no no no.

Why did you let it get under your skin? I would have been annoyed if they were my kids, my kids being silly In public sets me on edge. Other peoples children- not my problem.

I think this every time I go to the pub and parents think it's a good idea to do the same and take their kids. It drives me mad. Our kids are older now and we used to accept that we couldn't do those things whilst they were young. Now parents don't seem to accept that and bring their kids and just ignore everyone else's comfort!

@YukoandHiro

You're not being unreasonable. Other people's kids are infuriating. Even my own are annoying to me in these kind of situations. But the behaviour you're describing is totally run of the mill, ordinary 5yo stuff. It's draining. I have a 1yo and a 4yo and every time we try to go out for food I say to my DH "this will just be so much easier when they're 11 and 14" ... because they will ignore us probably. There isn't really a solution apart from just organising child free events with the people you'd like to see

It's really not ordinary, run of the mill 5 year old stuff.

My kids were NEVER allowed to throw food around, or get up and down from the table all the time, or shrieking.

And did you miss that the 11 year old was chucking chips too? Totally unacceptable.

And I'm not a perfect parent with angelic kids. But we were very clear on what we would accept in restaurants.

Definitely not normal behaviour.

My children were pretty good eating out/behaving well in public. At home not so much. (Both ASD but not diagnosed until adulthood.)
So good in fact they would roll their eyes/complain (quietly) about other children being too noisy

Blimey, my 3yo behaves better for a meal out! It doesn't sound very enjoyable at all.

They don't sound well behaved, the 11 year old in particular should be far better. For the 5 year old I'd have expected the parents to bring a colouring book or a simple (quiet!) game they could play with sibling - top trumps or something.

But

once they get to 5, surely sitting and talking to adults at a meal for an hour isn’t beyond the realms of possibility?

I'm sorry but I don't think this is fair at 5. Mine would be fine for half an hour as long as people were willing to talk sensibly about things on his wavelength - ask him about school or pets or favourite books etc. But a full hour just sat talking to adults? No. Especially as I've been at meals like this and in reality the nearby adults talk to the child for maybe 5 minutes then ignores them in favour of more interesting grown up conversation and wonders why they child gets bored and starts to fidget, fiddle with cutlery, make noise etc. Its attention seeking behaviour.

An 11-year old chucking chips at his sibling in a restaurant with no consequences? Sorry but his parents are raising animals. They can't cope so just shove a screen in front of them.

I wouldn't want to eat out with them again either and I definitely wouldn't want to be on the next table either! YANBU.

While I would not expect kids to be perfect, and would tolerate quite a lot in the way of over-loud chatting, less than brilliant table manners, etc, actual shrieking at meals and especially throwing food are not things that I'd expect beyond the toddler stage. So not from a 5-year-old, let alone an 11-year-old. Presumably they go to school, and aren't allowed to act like that at school meals. So YANBU, but I don't think there's much you can do about it.

From experience, I would say most children that age can sit nicely for about 45 minutes-1 hour and will then start to be annoying in some way. Based on a recent restaurant experience, (just me, DH and 2 children age 10 and 13 ) they will start annoying each other, looking at their phones or generally being irritating eg asking when we are leaving, saying they’re bored etc. I was not impressed and told my DH I didn’t want to waste money taking them out when they are unappreciative and rude. He said we have to take them out to give them these experiences to try and ‘civilise’ them and show what the expectations are (whether they live up to them or not)

It's lazy indulgent parenting. Far too much of it these days. Allowing the ipad to be their childminder and teaching their children fuck all.

I have ADHD and other things and not once have I shrieked, threw food, or ran around a restaurant annoying other diners. Neither has my autistic sister.
That means that someone must have taught us to behave at some point in our lives!
SEN isn't an excuse not to teach your children anything.

Doesn't sound as if the parents have much control over their behaviour. When my 6 year old is being silly and annoying all I have to do is give him that "look" and he stops.
He knows how to behave but of course children get bored. Meals out are a pain with children, it's not fun for them. They could of been having a particular bad day but their parents should be able to control them

You say "the conversation revolved around them" but was it really engaging them? Or was it actually them being placated/asked brief questions/being told off at intervals while actually the adults tried to continue their own conversations?

Really talking to children that age is hard. Its quite difficult to get them to open up etc and so a lot of people don't give them full attention. You need to be prepared to listen as they waffle on about whatever interest and gently steer it around to something more general so that you can add to the conversation too and they learn about talking to adults. It requires thought and conversation and a bit of willingness to enjoy silliness. If no one is prepared to do it with them, they equally don't learn how to reciprocate and tolerate someone else's conversation interests etc in the name of socialising.

My 9 and 6 year old don't do this unless they're going to and from a playground or something outside.

They often do drawing or colouring at the table or sometimes talk.

I'd say from about 4 I couldn't see them throwing food as they'd be told off once then we would leave if happened again.

I'm not strict by any stretch either, they just both know you don't do that in a public place.

So I think parents should've done more. At their ages I'd expect better. Toddlers definitely could see doing this but they aren't.

I’m going to be ‘that parent’, and say I simply wouldn’t /didn’t let my kids behave life that and there’s no reason for NT children to do so.

I feel for you op.I would never had allowed this awful behaviour! There is such a lot of piss poor parenting around..We have just been away for a couple of days and honestly there are so many children who have the misfortune of having really useless parents..

No boundaries and complete lack of awareness how their poor parenting impacts other people.
We witnessed this in a restaurant and a theatre.
I bloody wish there were child free spaces for adults to be free of bratty kids and their useless parents!