To have felt irritated by my friend’s children today?

[Chickalick]

Not sure if I’m being unreasonable or not to be be honest.

DH and I (who for context don’t have children) went for lunch today with friends of ours and their two DC. Youngest is 5, eldest is 11.

I just didn’t enjoy it and have come home feeling really frazzled due to their DC’s behaviour. I should probably preface it by saying they weren’t being horrendous but neither of them would stay seated for more than 5 mins at a time, constantly bouncing around on their seats, up and down around the table. Youngest kept ear piercingly shrieking every 5 mins and then giggling as they thought it was hilarious, it was like nails on a chalkboard. Eldest kept shouting when they talked (they have a tendency to do this in general) and it was deafening. Youngest kept stabbing their fork repeatedly into the table and eldest started chucking their chips at the youngest which then encouraged youngest to do the same.

I just felt like it was chaos and could feel the diners next to us getting annoyed. It was the noise, just constant really LOUD shouting instead of talking from the eldest or shrieking and silly wailing noises from the youngest. Youngest constantly wanting to get up and run round the restaurant. Us adults could barely hear each other and I just wanted to eat and get out of there ASAP.

To add, parents did tell them to stop each time they shrieked, started chucking food etc but they would stop for about 30 seconds then start again and I think they got fed up of telling them in the end so just kinda gave up. They whipped out an iPad in the end and gave it to them but then they put some game on with the volume on loud and both started shrieking and baying each other when the other was beating them etc.

We’ve just got home and I said to DH that I just didn’t enjoy the meal and won’t be in a hurry to do it with them again. I said it’s like they were feral and had never been taught to sit at the table and eat. He thinks I’m being unreasonable and said that’s just eating out with children, they’re noisy and hyper and there’s not much you can do.

Is he right?

@Underhisi

"I don't think it's just 'luck of the draw'. I honestly believe you get from children what effort you put into them. It's hard, hard work."

I disagree. We work far harder than other parent we see to support ds and manage his behaviour but he is still likely to be the most disruptive person there. Other factors come into it too. Ds's behaviour will never be 'normal'.

I agree to a large extent (and I'm sorry @Underhisi that things are so hard for you). Some children are naturally compliant, and sitting still at table or in the classroom is something they find quite easy from a young age. Other children, for whatever reason (SN or just plain old personality) find this much harder. You can 'actively' parent these children until the cows come home and they can try as hard as they are capable of trying, but although you can achieve a great deal, they're never going to be perceived as being as 'well-behaved' as the children to whom it comes naturally or who don't have their difficulties (or the parents as being as effective). And you do end up ignoring some of the smaller stuff to avoid showering a child in an endless stream of counterproductive negativity.

YANBU. My 3yo behaves better.

Teaching your children to behave in a civilised manner is part of parenting

It is.

Yanbu to expect better behaviour but yabu to never do it again, just maybe choose a different environment like a picnic or bbq where it's more informal

@Madamum18

Teaching your children to behave in a civilised manner is part of parenting

It is.

It definitely is a thing but two things the OP said stood out for me. A) that they are anything for a quiet life, and want to be their DC's friends B) that the OP's dog curled up and slept, and OP wished the DC would do the same.

For a) maybe it seems this way to someone who doesn't have kids, but this suggests to me that they are trying to keep everyone (Inc OP) happy and the atmosphere light. I would not imagine this is how they parent all the time.

b) children are not dogs. This smacks of 'be seen but not heard' attitude, which just isn't right. Children are humans in their own right, and if you don't want them to be included in the social event, plan an adult only meeting.

Most of us were experts on parenting until we actually had children, and whilst I get that other peoples kids are annoying, the comments beyond this are judgemental and unpleasant.

So for that, YABU.

No excuse for that kind of behaviour.

We could take ours from toddler age and they would sit sit, eat properly and use manners. If they decided to play up in the first instance food was removed, second instance they were removed, home or outside the home.

I remember only one instance of them behaving badly. We took them home. They got an absolute rollicking in the car, got home and put straight to bed. Never did it again.

We went to a family event, we were asked by the famous family feral mother how had we got ours to behave so well...superglue was suggested 😆

I’ve just read a comment on this thread saying that the little one’s behaviour is normal for that age. NO ITS NOT ! Neither my children nor any of my grandchildren have ever behaved like that at the meal table at home or when eating out. Although I have dined with friends who’s children did ! What happened to teaching children table manners??

YANBU. At those ages, should be able to have a meal out. I think it probably relates to a previous thread about sitting at a table for family meals, it sounds like they are not used to that, for whatever reason.

Sorry I haven't RTFT so there's a chance I may be repeating something someone has already said. I think this current generation of kids have been affected by the pandemic, they won't have eaten out as often as they would have without it so won't be as well practiced as kids who were 5 and 11 a couple of years ago. This could be a factor and perhaps you need to cut them some slack. It's much easier for adults to ease back into 'normal' life, but the 2 years is a huge chunk of a 5 year old's life.

Most of us were experts on parenting until we actually had children, and whilst I get that other peoples kids are annoying, the comments beyond this are judgemental and unpleasant.

Not really. I just think that teaching children to behave appropriately IS part of parenting. Taking the OPs post at face value, although I understand the parents getting to a point where they just give up I also know that is a mistake...and suggests that some of the problem might be that the kids don't really think their parents mean it, if that happens regularly! I have watched a family lose their way ion this one over several years, and the outcome is similar to what the OP describes, and is a bit sad for all of the little family who have a rather "relentless" dynamic for all of them!

Either way, OP I think you need to rethink how you meet up with your friends, and the suggestion of taking something "new" as a little present for the kids to do, is a good one. Colouring, a "Fidget" each, or similar. The Works is a good source of cheap but fun bits and bobs

Some of it may be a result of lockdown. My 2 are younger at 5 and 3 and I used to take my 5 year old for meals loads before lockdown and she was good as gold. We took them out recently and it was like they had never been out before, not throwing food but keep getting up from the table and being overly loud. We obviously kept correcting them but they need retraining due to not being out for food in such a long time. Maybe these children are similar?

I agree with @bitchymcbitch here, one of the first things that came to mind was 'I bet their parenting is completely different in private'.

And yes, I remember my pre children self thinking I would never allow x,y and z from my precious darlings. Then the universe gave me my boy child who would test the patience of a saint, despite being raised the same as his sisters. I dead to think what people thought of him (or rather, my parenting) when he was at his demonic worst.

Make it adults only next time.

No not at all, assuming no SEN then I would also be annoyed/embarrassed and I have 3 children. The 5 year old, with the pandemic and little opportunities to take out, I can kind of understand a little but 11 yo throwing food 🤦‍♀️ animals throw food. My kids wouldn't dream of behaving like this at our own dining table never mind in a restaurant.

Grates on me when people use the excuse oh they're just kids, that's how kids behave, that's what you expect when you go for food with kids. No, that's how kids behave if they belong to parents who cba. Each child is different and requires different techniques to enable them to manage their own behaviour in public, but doesn't sound like your friends really made any effort other than to shove a screen in their face.

Children need teaching how to sit at a table and eat with good manners. We didn’t go out often as there were 4 of us and my parents were poor. But we ate at the table at home and if we were too loud or arguing then we had to sit on one hand & put the other over our mouths for a couple of minutes. I think we all thought this was hilarious but it did the trick and stopped us arguing and being loud. With my own they knew it was a treat to eat out and that they needed to be on ‘best’ if they wanted a repeat treat another time. I m now quite deaf and am easily deafened even further by loud people when out, children or adults, so it can be hellish if I’m sat near shrieking children or shouty adults.

We went out on Easter Sunday with my niece who is 3 and my 2 kids, 11 and 13, there was none of this behaviour, unless you were there for hours there isn't really any excuse. I would give them a wide berth as I don't think that is normal/acceptable behaviour for their age.

@Regenbogen22

YANBU. At the ages of 11 and 5 they should be capable of sitting through a (non formal as it sounds) meal. Great parenting!!

This! There’s no way a 5 year old and especially an 11 year old should have behaved like this😮

Sounds hideous. I avoid kids as much as possible.

You would think differently if you actually had kids and I think calling them feral is really fucking rude considering they were just kids being kids. Every child is different but the old children should be seen and never heard rule by which you obviously still live by is totally obsolete.

@mussymummy

You would think differently if you actually had kids and I think calling them feral is really fucking rude considering they were just kids being kids. Every child is different but the old children should be seen and never heard rule by which you obviously still live by is totally obsolete.

I have children. OP's description of tgeir behaviour isn't just 'kids being kids' imo.

It's crap parents being crap parents. There's also understanding what's appropriate. If my kids behaved like that, I certainly wouldn't inflict them on my friends, especially in a public place. I'd save myself the stress and embarrassment.

Currently out for meal with 6 year old and 8 year old and it’s a pleasure, lots of chatting and telling stories and whilst we wait for meals we play cards. They are badly behaved. By 5 I’d expect yj to be able to sit and have dinner (workout an iPad!)

My sister and I then aged 5 and 3 got taken to the Bank of England “Country” club for Sunday lunch on occasions as my dad had an associate membership. If we had behaved like that our parents would never have taken us back for a meal.

My brother got married in December and my three nieces aged 2, 3 and 5 managed to sit at the table without throwing food, screeching or bouncing in their seats throughout the entire meal and speeches. They were all provided with colouring in after the meal and were able to sit at peace.

Curious to know why you are on Mumsnet if you don't have children? It can't be relevant to you really, especially if you are just griping about other people's children?

Trying for one of own at the moment. I am not the only person on here without children. The behaviour displayed at the meal would suggest children who were very bored and desperate for attention. They have learned that if they act up and display negative behaviour they get the attention they crave.

@Bignanny30

I’ve just read a comment on this thread saying that the little one’s behaviour is normal for that age. NO ITS NOT ! Neither my children nor any of my grandchildren have ever behaved like that at the meal table at home or when eating out. Although I have dined with friends who’s children did ! What happened to teaching children table manners??

I agree. None of my three dcs behaved like that at that age. It’s down to parental expectations.

I would add that if your dcs behave like that, perhaps stick to McDonalds until they calm down a bit.