To have felt irritated by my friend’s children today?

[Chickalick]

Not sure if I’m being unreasonable or not to be be honest.

DH and I (who for context don’t have children) went for lunch today with friends of ours and their two DC. Youngest is 5, eldest is 11.

I just didn’t enjoy it and have come home feeling really frazzled due to their DC’s behaviour. I should probably preface it by saying they weren’t being horrendous but neither of them would stay seated for more than 5 mins at a time, constantly bouncing around on their seats, up and down around the table. Youngest kept ear piercingly shrieking every 5 mins and then giggling as they thought it was hilarious, it was like nails on a chalkboard. Eldest kept shouting when they talked (they have a tendency to do this in general) and it was deafening. Youngest kept stabbing their fork repeatedly into the table and eldest started chucking their chips at the youngest which then encouraged youngest to do the same.

I just felt like it was chaos and could feel the diners next to us getting annoyed. It was the noise, just constant really LOUD shouting instead of talking from the eldest or shrieking and silly wailing noises from the youngest. Youngest constantly wanting to get up and run round the restaurant. Us adults could barely hear each other and I just wanted to eat and get out of there ASAP.

To add, parents did tell them to stop each time they shrieked, started chucking food etc but they would stop for about 30 seconds then start again and I think they got fed up of telling them in the end so just kinda gave up. They whipped out an iPad in the end and gave it to them but then they put some game on with the volume on loud and both started shrieking and baying each other when the other was beating them etc.

We’ve just got home and I said to DH that I just didn’t enjoy the meal and won’t be in a hurry to do it with them again. I said it’s like they were feral and had never been taught to sit at the table and eat. He thinks I’m being unreasonable and said that’s just eating out with children, they’re noisy and hyper and there’s not much you can do.

Is he right?

but once they get to 5, surely sitting and talking to adults at a meal for an hour isn’t beyond the realms of possibility?

And no it's not beyond the realms of possibility but to them you'll be talking about boring things and they wouldn't want to do that for long.

You are braver than I. My friends know I have a place for children and a place for NO children. Going to their house is time to fuss and indulge their kids, out at a restaurant is not. The 2 are separate and we wouldn’t arrange such a meeting. Be honest with them and say eating out with the kids doesn’t work for you.

@BoredZelda

This whole business of giving kids iPads during a meal out is just grim.

Every single family restaurant has colouring stuff to keep kids entertained. What’s the difference? We sometimes used and iPad, sometimes colouring in, sometimes played a game on a notepad. When they are really little and out with adults it is unreasonable to expect them to sit there with little to occupy them. I feel sorry for any kid having to sit there quietly with nothing to do, waiting for dinner to arrive.

My daughter rarely misbehaved in restaurants. Mostly we’d all sit and chat together but when she was getting bored, we kept her busy. If she started playing up, we took her out.

Exactly - occupied is occupied - what difference does it make how?

My 5 year old daughter would happily sit and colour for hours but our youngest has learning disabilities and can be hard work. If we eat out we'll try to engage him in drawing but he can only grip the pen for a minute or two, if he starts becoming noisy we may take him out but again it's hard because he thinks we're going home without eating so kicks off more.

He has an ipad and headphones and sits quite happily watching Mr tumble etc not bothering anyone. I get a lot of eye rolls and snide comments from other diners and the perfect parent brigade as he looks "normal" but the alternative is him screaming and being disruptive so it's the lesser of two evils.

The other alternative is locking him away at home and never allowing him or his siblings to experience eating out but I would hope we've moved on a bit from the days where that was the norm.

Speaking quite frankly, it simply might have been not the best day for this family. Kids are on holidays at the moment, so their usual routine is all messed up. I got 2 boys and they've been playing up lately a lot simply because they are not used to being out of school for so long and dont have the same structure of the day. They might have also been overtired. Parents do not have a magic way to stop their children from misbehaving once and for all. I can tell my kids sometimes to stop fighting and teasing one another 15 times in a row without any effect on a really bad day. We never go to proper restaurants with them, especially not for dinner, only to cafes where we can have some pastries/ hot chocolate for a maximum of 15 mins and go for a walk after. Kids simply don't like places where they feel restricted. Not because their parents are useless how people tend to think or they are spoilt kids, its just boring for them. Next time if you still want to see your friend with those kids find a more child friendly place/time or the very least give them some new sticker books or colouring books as a small gesture before the meal so they can do something whilst waiting. People who also hate when they see parents taking iPads out... get a life.

@jessy100

I feel for you op.I would never had allowed this awful behaviour! There is such a lot of piss poor parenting around..We have just been away for a couple of days and honestly there are so many children who have the misfortune of having really useless parents..

No boundaries and complete lack of awareness how their poor parenting impacts other people.
We witnessed this in a restaurant and a theatre.
I bloody wish there were child free spaces for adults to be free of bratty kids and their useless parents!

This with bells on!

No, that's not normal behavior in a restaurant for children of that age. Perhaps they're not used to eating out or perhaps the parents were being ineffective.

Either way, I wouldn't repeat the experience!

Did the parents not take anything to entertain them? Colouring, playing cards, games, puzzles… children do get bored sitting at a table, but they have to learn, and it’s up to parents to give them something to focus on.

Yanbu. My kids are often quiet happy eating out and doing sticker books while waiting. But if we have friends coming esp kids have been cooped up in car, defo worth doing long walk before to exhaust them

I've worked in hospitality for 2 decades I've had some right dirty messy loud obnoxious people and their families sit and eat never had anything like that

The other stress factor of course is that you were there. If my 4yo was engaging in that sort of behaviour, I would have given a couple of warnings and then marched them straight out of the restaurant. But of course, it's more difficult to admit defeat when you're out with friends because you don't like to let them down by packing up and leaving before the meal is finished (even if you really should!). So you do sort of soldier on ineffectually even if the more sensible thing to do is say "Sorry, this isn't working", grab your kids and leave and give them a shouting at in the car on the way home (leaving your friends to enjoy a peaceful meal on their own).

Before I had kids I would have found this irritating.

Becoming a parent, I developed the ability to be ambidextrous, and gradually became less and less phased by noise, screaming, bouncing, mess, bodily this that and the other. I can zone it out and continue having a nice time or a conversation, as can my Mum friends.

You were thrown in at the deep end OP.

I do believe there may be an adhd issue by the sounds of things. And I also get irritated by the parents who feel the necessity to have the tablet on LOUD at dinner. I can handle kids, but not BABY SHARK Do Do Do Do Do Do… etc. when having a family meal.

My niece and nephew are 8 and 5. They can sit for 1.5 hours at a table in a restaurant with some colouring books or small toys to play with. No screens. You just have to train children properly, unless they have SEN issues which make things harder. YANBU

Yanbu. Unless it’s somewhere with some sort of soft play, going for dinner with kids can be bloody painful

Ps actually just read the age of the eldest and that seems strange. My DC has Asd/adhd and this sort of behaviour is typical. But even he can be bribed, prepared in advance (meeting the people beforehand etc) and generally he’s pretty pleasant. Very loud talker though… can’t be helped. Did these kids have very intense full on conversations? Have the parents ever mentioned SEN?

It’s a lottery taking kids out for meals. Sometimes they are fine, other times you really wished you stayed at home.

Personally, I’d never put friends without kids through it!

@Ionlydomassiveones

It’s good for children to be told to sit still and learn to ‘be bored’. Most of life requires this skill. There is no excuse for shrieking, unnecessary noise and running and bouncing around. This is shit parenting. And I can’t believe people on this thread are saying it’s ‘normal’ - yes it might be a normal desire for children to act up and not behave like adults but it’s for parents to teach them where and when things are appropriate. Acting like feral chimps in a restaurant is not ok. The parents are lazy, selfish and are doing their kids no favours.

Totally agree with this^^

I have known these children since they were babies. Their parents talk about them non-stop. There is no SEN. Thy were just being boisterous and unruly, which I totally get sometimes children are. It doesn’t mean they’re SEN. I think this is part of the problem with today’s society, no children can be ‘naughty’ anymore, everyone wants to excuse their behaviour by diagnosing them with medical conditions.

There just has never been particularly strict parenting, ever. Like I say, they seem to want to be their DC’s best pals, rather than their parents so it’s not surprising they’re a bit unruly.

I think they are probably behaving worse than they would usually because it's the Easter holidays and they are over excited and out of their usual routine.

My 6 year old managed to sit fairly nicely through a (long, boring for him) Easter Mass yesterday only getting a bit wriggly towards the end, but then today we went to my parents house for lunch with family friends and he was sooo naughty - a mixture of out of routineness and showing off I think.

@Ionlydomassiveones

It’s good for children to be told to sit still and learn to ‘be bored’. Most of life requires this skill. There is no excuse for shrieking, unnecessary noise and running and bouncing around. This is shit parenting. And I can’t believe people on this thread are saying it’s ‘normal’ - yes it might be a normal desire for children to act up and not behave like adults but it’s for parents to teach them where and when things are appropriate. Acting like feral chimps in a restaurant is not ok. The parents are lazy, selfish and are doing their kids no favours.

Perhaps the people saying it's "normal" or giving reasons why this might be happening are trying to balance out the fact that OP has started a thread to have a bitch about two young children and she's got it!!

On a more general thread about children's behaviour in restaurants, It might be a bit different but a bunch of adults piling on to criticise and condemn this poor family without really knowing them just feels a bit unpleasant and unnecessary.

I don’t think that is particularly normal, although it isn’t particularly unusual either. It’s easy to say someone’s parenting is not great - but you just have to do your best. Different kids struggle with different things. And adults have differing standards of what they believe is acceptable behaviour in a restaurant. I think the behaviour you describe is bloody irritating and I would have been annoyed to have to listen to it if I’d gone for a meal lit.

Kids are annoying. Your own are bad and others are worse.

@Chickalick

I have known these children since they were babies. Their parents talk about them non-stop. There is no SEN. Thy were just being boisterous and unruly, which I totally get sometimes children are. It doesn’t mean they’re SEN. I think this is part of the problem with today’s society, no children can be ‘naughty’ anymore, everyone wants to excuse their behaviour by diagnosing them with medical conditions.

There just has never been particularly strict parenting, ever. Like I say, they seem to want to be their DC’s best pals, rather than their parents so it’s not surprising they’re a bit unruly.

My ds has a neurological condition and autism.

I still wouldn't take him to a restaurant if I thought or he wampum's shriek and throw food.

If he didn't understand how to behave I wouldn't expect everyone else's meal to be ruined.

@Chickalick

I have known these children since they were babies. Their parents talk about them non-stop. There is no SEN. Thy were just being boisterous and unruly, which I totally get sometimes children are. It doesn’t mean they’re SEN. I think this is part of the problem with today’s society, no children can be ‘naughty’ anymore, everyone wants to excuse their behaviour by diagnosing them with medical conditions.

There just has never been particularly strict parenting, ever. Like I say, they seem to want to be their DC’s best pals, rather than their parents so it’s not surprising they’re a bit unruly.

Thats the thing exactly with today's society children are expected to be 'trained' (the language used by many in the posts here) and they definitely cannot be naughty at all especially in public because that would be really unacceptable and absolutely rude. How dare they. Thats definitely true. Also important to remember that this is very common in the UK, where children are expected to do this and that at all times. So many other cultures embrace that children are not adults, big families and friends meet together for dinner that they cook together with kids playing around, helping with plates and cutlery, everything is loud and chaotic and kids are part of it. Sitting in a restaurant drinking wine and having a long chat with your friends whilst kids simply sit silently and eat chips is completely unrealistic for most normal children forget about children with special needs.

My 2 DC are under 11 but older than 5. We went out for Easter lunch yesterday and they both sat nicely, ate nicely, talked nicely though had to be reminded a couple times we were sat close enough they could lower the volume, said please and thank you and behaved in the way I would expect them to. There were a couple tables with kids, some a bit younger, some a bit older. I can honestly say the only up and down I saw was of a child that can’t have been older than 3, but even she was relatively quiet and ate nicely!

I’d be pretty pissed if if my meal was ruined by kids behaviour, and my own kids would have a bloody good talking to to if they acted like the 11 year old. Neither of them require an iPad in a restaurant either. Though I appreciate how it can be a useful tool, especially for a child with SEN and wouldn’t judge another parent for using one if it meant they got to eat a meal in peace. I would judge loud volume/no headphones though.