Not bothering with summer holidays- ungrateful kids?

[Tethersend01]

We have two Kids ages 12 and 15.
To set the scene Myself and DH had horrible childhoods (poverty, abuse etc) and have worked hard in every way to ensure our kids lives are a world away from our own experiences
We have always made an effort with Summer holidays, mainly holidays in the UK ( hotels since they have been older and things like Centreparcs) also driven abroad, France, Eurodisney etc.
I have a huge fear of flying (flew a lot when I was younger) due to two horrific experiences and I have no interest in ‘getting over’ this.
It’s literally the only thing I’m not prepared to do holiday wise.
Now, I will say at this point, holidays are not something I particularly enjoy, they are not relaxing for me and even the fully catered ones are rather stressful overall.
Anyhow, both boys now want to go abroad but only on a plane.
One wants to go to the USA the other wants to go to skiing (we don’t ski).
I suggested a cruise on one of theuxuryvfamily cruise liners one where you stop off at lots of places but they are both refusing to even consider that. They are refusing a UK holiday or to drive to the continent.
I’m at a loss and seriously fed up.
I’m being made the scapegoat as they are blaming my lack of flying and as time goes on its less and less likely we will be anle to book anything at all.
AIBU not to bother this year?

They have TRUSTS, free uni, free homes... OP really has given them everything bar a flight on a plane. And she's said they can do that without her.

All of that stuff is, at best, a completely abstract concept to younger teens, especially the 12 year old. And if I was a teenage boy whose mum was prone to martyrdom, which OP sounds to be, I would be seriously wary of appearing too enthusiastic about her offer to exclude herself from the main family holiday for my sake.

I find it really unpleasant when posters describe their children as ‘ungrateful’ for the material things they provide. It’s like they’re failing to uphold their end of a contract that they never signed. It’s a tall order to give your children all the trappings of a wealthy middle class lifestyle but then expect them to be cheerfully ‘grateful’ about never being able to fly for a family holiday. I also note that you seem to believe you’ve provided large trust funds for your children through ‘graft’ on your part - that’s simply not the case, otherwise the children of all grafters would have trust funds. You’re discounting what must have been pretty significant good fortune on your part somewhere along the way, so perhaps the ingratitude you see in your kids is in fact a learned behaviour.

Do you think you didn't get over your poor flying experience because you didn't fly until you were older rather than seeing flying as something you can leave until later? I grew up with a dad in travel so we went everywhere since I was pretty much born.
As a result, despite being on some pretty hair raising flights, having been on so many planes since very little I'm able to see that although those flights were horrendous I can't outweigh the 'brainwashing' I received from a young age about flying being safe.

I think it's fine that your dc don't like the type of holiday you've always been on, are they against holidaying in the U.K. somewhere? Can you send them together on a teen activity camp for a week and see if they'd prefer that?
My parents used to go to Spain every summer and I absolutely hated it. I have been to Spain once in adulthood as a result and that was a business trip! Maybe your dc genuinely are tired of the driving holiday. I think you sacrificing things isn't really relevant when it comes to teens. Do they have to be grateful for a driving holiday just because you like them?

If they won't go with dad alone flying, just say that they can either go on whatever holiday you're offering them or you won't be going but say it kindly as a genuine choice not it's this or else. Times are moving on, even though many people can't afford a driving eu holiday many people can and that may be what your dc are looking at, that many of their friends have been further afield and they're expressing their desire to see these places. And that's ok and you saying one day they will see these places is also ok.
Teens are selfish because they're expressing their desire for independence but usually do it in the most clumsy rude manner humanly possible.

They are kids...they don't get to dictate holidays . You are setting a good environmental example! My dd wants to go to NYC, the Maldives etc. Great but I can't afford it...tough!

I'd be clear. They have years ahead to go on holiday, by plane, to wherever they want.

For now, flying holiday with mum is not an option.

Flying with dad or non flying with the whole family, those are the options.

Pick, or no holiday.

@Tigofigo

They have TRUSTS, free uni, free homes... OP really has given them everything bar a flight on a plane. And she's said they can do that without her.

Good God she's given them almost everything!

I find it really sad (and telling) that you consider "everything" to be purely financial.

Maybe they'd prefer quality time with their mum to a trust fund.

They can have that without flying.

This thread just proves my point earlier. That no matter what people do for their kids, sometimes they’ll always whinge and criticise no matter what they get.

I just wanted to put out there that the summer is the wrong time of year for the ski season generally so that does really put the breaks on what one of your children want for the summer. It is possible to perhaps find some snow somewhere but it is going to be costly and isn’t reliable or you going to need to fly further out of Europe.

Teenagers by their very nature are ungrateful.

We've just had a scenario where DS16 has dropped out of the school ski trip to Banff because his pal had done so ( even though another pal was due to be going). I mean this is a full expenses paid skiing trip to Canada for goodness sake, which he'll probably never experience again.

You're taking the lack of flying thing too seriously. Teens will just teen and use whatever they can to blame it on.

We're just bringing a pal for DS on holidays and counting the days until we can head off without him ( starting with UK camping breaks soon).

The usual ill informed misconceptions about cruises on here. The big resort ships are great for teens. Not my cup of tea personally, I prefer smaller quieter ships.

Realised I spelt brakes wrong, whoops! Can tell I wrote it in a hurry this morning!

I'm really surprised that they are allowed to dictate to you. They are 12 and 15 - they are children and go where you take them.

This is kindly meant OP ..

They are healthy, self-centred teenagers. They don’t appreciate what you’ve done for them because it’s their norm. Gratitude will emerge when they’re older.

You aren’t prepared to do address your fear of flying. That’s your prerogative. Actually ‘no fly’ is an ethical choice.

So you can :

• Inter rail through Europe (not affected by Brexit)

-Take ferries to Spain, France, Ireland, the Channel Isles or the Scottish Islands.

• Take Eurostar and drive to the Alps for skiing

• Cruise to New York (and hire a car for a road trip to Florida)

Or just wave them off at the airport with their father!

Holidays growing up were strictly UK only. My parents hated flying and as children we never questioned it. Going abroad was simply not on the table. We rarely fly on holiday - only twice in the past 10 years.
I also find holidays stressful, I’m well known for getting a migraine on our return.
I’d give them a deadline for their ideas and if there’s not a consensus then you won’t be going or it will be a last minute holiday probably in the UK. There’s so many options via car, ferry or even train if you wanted an adventure and felt like going a bit further afield - the man in seat 61 website will help there - you could easily get to the Alps which are beautiful in the summer and perhaps the one that wants to ski does a lesson for a day as part of it. (You can ski on some of the glaciers in the summer.)

What do they say to you when you say you will not fly?

[quote Chantinge]@Tethersend01

With kindness, it sounds like you have worked very hard to ensure their future, but you also need to make sure you don’t hold that over their heads.
They are allowed to have their own wants and desires, and express those.[/quote]
I think this is so true.

@ZoyaTheDestroyer

It’s impossible to say whether anyone here IBU without knowing what information the children have about your phobia, and how it was presented to them. Do they know that it is a deep, true phobia? Do they have an age-appropriate understanding of the traumatic incidents? Do they know that you have attempted treatment? Are they allowed to ask questions or do you shut them down?

My brother has a severe phobia of all enclosed spaces, including planes. He has attempted CBT but he is very honest about the fact that, like OP, he does not have the deep intrinsic motivation to address the phobia for his own reasons. You cannot cure a phobia for other people. We are taking my niece, his daughter, on holiday with us this summer at his request. Perhaps consider paying for them to join a friend or extended family member on their holiday.

Actually this is irrelevant. The OP does not need to open up all her trauma and deep feelings in order to 'persuade' her sons to understand her. There are some holiday options for the family, take it or leave it.

Give them the choice. 1. They go on a non-flying holiday as a family or 2. They go on a flying holiday with their dad (and if you hate holidays so much, tell them you're perfectly fine being at home relaxing). If they don't like either of those options, it's no holiday for everyone. It's unreasonable for you to expect them to have empathy for your situation at their ages, they simply won't understand it, especially given they've had an upbringing that is the polar opposite to yours.

The kids sound like self centred and spoilt refusing to consider other peoples needs. Are they usually all me me me. The adult paying chooses the holiday with consideration, with activities on holiday being a shared family decision.

Personally I’d tell them that I’m not flying and they can work out holiday plans

They are 12 and 15 and don’t have any money for a holiday, therefore can’t demand you fly anywhere.

You have compromised saying they could go with dad without you. Then demanding that you go is unreasonable.

I wouldn’t bother. Or I would go on holiday myself and leave then with dad. 12 and 15 is old enough to know that they should appreciate the effort you make and if there don’t like then tough.

When they have their own money they can fly all the like, but demanding you get over a severe anxiety so they can get on a plane is entitled.

Sorry @bellac11, I completely disagree. It’s not a question of persuasion. Phobias are poorly understood by most adults, let alone teens. Empathy is a skill which it is a parent’s responsibility to teach their child (because as multiple pp have pointed out, teenagers are by nature self-centred and selfish). It’s unreasonable to expect teens to be able to empathise with a totally intransigent position, if that is what OP has done.

I see everyone’s point here.

My mum has a phobia of flying (not a strong dislike, a phobia) so we never flew. As a family we didn’t have particularly fun car journeys and I got car sick so holidays were crap for me. I’d have gotten more out of fun day trips.

Now I’m grown up, I’ve got a phobia of flying, like you, and like you I don’t want to go on holidays.

Anyway your boys are fair in saying they’re missing out- but it’s unreasonable of them to not go with their dad. They probably don’t “get” how awful flying is for you. I think it’s hard for others to get their head around.

@ZoyaTheDestroyer

Sorry *@bellac11*, I completely disagree. It’s not a question of persuasion. Phobias are poorly understood by most adults, let alone teens. Empathy is a skill which it is a parent’s responsibility to teach their child (because as multiple pp have pointed out, teenagers are by nature self-centred and selfish). It’s unreasonable to expect teens to be able to empathise with a totally intransigent position, if that is what OP has done.

They dont have to empathise with her fear at all, the family holiday is decided by the parents, you go here, or there, or there. Dont want to go? Ok, stay at home with grandparents then.

Agree that phobias are hard to understand unless you have one. I have one of water and if I feel even remotely unsteady in water I start panicking, even when its more than shallow enough for me to stand up in. They defy logic and people struggle with that. I dont think that it makes them self-centered, just unable to grasp it.

OK @bellac11. Your view of this situation is very different to mine. That’s fine. What was I saying about intransigence…?