Friend still insisting on meeting outside only

[Lemons1571]

Anyone else experiencing this? A meet up for coffee with a friend has been postponed several times because of bad weather, but she won’t go inside with anyone as is scared of catching covid. She helps her cv parent out, though is not a carer, so is still worried about the guilt of catching it and passing it to them.

She’s happy to rearrange a planned meet up at short notice (her kids are adults now) but short notice is a bit of a nightmare for me juggling younger kids and childcare and no local family to help.

She does office work, but won’t sit with her team if she can help it, always sits at a bank of desks on her own.

So I guess AIBU to think that she needs to seek some help to move on a little? We are in the UK not Shanghai. There is an underlying insinuation that im not being flexible or understanding enough, because I can’t magic up childcare for these very short notice date changes.

@PAFMO

4.9 million people are believed to currently be Covid positive. She has a CV relative. I don't blame her.

I don't blame her either. Rates are very high in some areas.

If she's a good friend then you can work through it.

Don't blame her at all she is doing what she feels is best for her.

This would annoy me tbh bur my principle all
along has been to respect other people’s wishes even when they seemed a bit OTT compared to what I’d do. I guess you either suck up her requirements or avoid making social arrangements with her for a while.
I’d perhaps also test before seeing her and tell her so.

Just say that short notice, weather dependent meet ups don't work for you so you'll need to stop seeing her until she can be more flexible.

As a friend you should respect her choices.

As a friend she should respect that the OP can’t magic up last minute childcare based on her whims.

If she doesn’t want to meet indoors let her get on with it, but you need to make it clear you aren’t pandering to the last minute changes, because you can’t.

Yes I think you are being unreasonable @Lemons1571

We've been really careful for last 2.5 years and avoided getting it. Last week went to Devon on holiday and ended up meeting friends in a pub on the way back -- and although we had hoped to eat outdoors, it was too cold and so we all ate indoors.

Me, my DS and my DH have all now got Covid. Monday for DS, Tues me, Wed DH. It's messed up all our Easter plans and meant I cannot visit my 80 yr old mum.
I'm still feeling really shit with a bad cough and exhaustion. If we are still positive next week my DS will be missing yet more school. All because we let our guard down and ate inside for one (fairly nice but not worth at least a week of illness) pub meal...

Your friend is the sensible one here.

@Lincslady53

We care for a 98 year old so are more cautious than most people we know, still wear masks, avoid crowded shops etc. I went to an indoor meeting and meal last week for 20 people, over half reported positive 5 days later. I feel very lucky to have dodged it that time. If one if us catches it, we are not worried about ourselves, but are concerned about how we will care for someone who needs help with everything, never mind passing it onto her which could result in her death. So give your friend some support, it is hard.

I'm in a very similar position. My mum is CEV and her consultant effectively told her to keep shielding once Boris relaxed all the rules in England. So I still wear masks and am mindful of where I go and who I meet up with. I don't worry about catching covid for me, I worry about what it could do to people who aren't as fortunate as myself in terms of vulnerability. I understand it's frustrating for you OP but to suggest your friend "needs help to move on a little" demonstrates a lack of compassion and insight. How much of a risk covid is might be something that has changed from your perspective, sadly others don't have that luxury.

I’m with your friend @MrsPelligrinoPetrichor, I also do this. I look after my ECV parent (widowed, 80s) who is having cancer treatment. If they get Covid, they are likely to be very ill, are priority for anti virals, and their cancer treatment will be delayed. It’s a situation I really want to minimise the likelihood of happening. Apart from wanting to protect my parents’s health, I’ll be the person doing the hospital runs, the home care, the dog walking… I also have 2 dc, a full time job and a dh who leaves/returns home so early/late to be no good to deal with the dc.

I also recognise your constraints around childcare. As I said, I have 2dc.

The only “indoors with people” situations we do between us is school and work. I’ve cancelled theatre tickets, weekends away with friends, sleepovers. If I go in to the office I book a more remote desk. We have no holiday booked. My 10 year old understands why, my boss and my team understand why. Believe me, I’m not happy with living like this, but I can’t live with doing anything differ to.

Incidentally, towards the end of last year, I was all for relaxing, mixing etc and dealing with the consequences. There’s nothing like a cancer diagnosis to change your thinking.

I don’t think either you or your friend are right or wrong on this OP, you just have different priorities. It could be that this will be the end of the friendship; or you could keep in touch remotely; or you could wait for each other and provide moral support.

I don’t think either of you are right or wrong but I sympathise with you in terms of how difficult it is to keep relationships going when one person will only meet outside

Hi OP

I don't think either of you are unreasonable here, you just have different stand points. But was is a bit unreasonable is it all seems very much focused on her view point right now with little understanding of yours.

I'd perhaps gently raise this with her. Maybe say that you understand her caution and are happy to meet outside, but you need a bit more understanding from her that you won't always be able to change plans at the last minute because you have childcare considerations to account for.

Cases close to an all time high, millions with long covid and she’s looking after vulnerable family members. Yes, it sounds like she’s got quite enough reasons to manage her risk by trying to keep meet-ups outside.

Moving on with our lives and living with covid involves accommodating different risk appetites, or dropping friendships because you can’t or won’t.

Although, her not being realistic or accommodating of your family circumstances is unreasonable.

Some people on this thread are so bloody rude.

No one is in the wrong here. We are all entitled to make our own assessments of what is safe. And we all have our own attitude to risk. If your attitude doesn't match with someone else's you're under no obligation to force yourself to do something that doesn't work.

Cases are really high in some areas. Hospitalisations are increasing again. Vaccination immunity is wearing off. There are growing signs that COVID does more to the body than doctors initially realised (and certainly not comparable to a cold or flu).

I totally understand why people have had enough. I get it. I don't blame anyone for being back out there and mixing again. My close friends are. I'm not.

But I support a CEV elderly mum, and I'm a carer to two autistic DC, one with high needs. If I get ill wit COVID, I put my DM at serious risk. Also, if I get it, my DC will struggle to cope. I'm the one that needs to be providing care, they won't go to anyone else (shit situation but it is what it is). They struggle even if I get a headache for a few hours.

I can't afford to get ill myself (and I'm not in brilliant health so chances are that I'd be pretty poorly). Plus I really don't want to put my DM at risk.

For these reasons I'm choosing right now to not socialise indoors. I'll go to shops and I'd happily nip inside quickly to use the toilet, but I don't want to sit in a cafe, bar etc. I still wear a mask when I go shopping. My choices.

Obviously this won't be sustainable forever but while cases are so high, I'd rather be cautious. And if you want to sneer at that, you just crack on. I'm doing what feels right for my family. And luckily I've got friends who understand that when I feel able to socialise, I'll rejoin them at restaurants, and cinemas etc. But right now they understand that it's not for me.

The world has just been through a horrible pandemic that's killed thousands - a bit of fucking understanding about why some people are still anxious wouldn't go amiss from some of you.

^I should have added - I'm also very keen for my DC not to get COVID as they don't cope well with illness in themselves especially well. It can be pretty awful. Autistic overload goes into hyperdrive when they're unwell. And neither have been vaccinated as the nurses can't get near them with the needles.

Another big reason why I'm reticent to mingle right now.

What joy does this friendship bring to you op? I understand your friend’s reasoning for wanting to meet outside. However, it really is all about her and without consideration of your circumstances. The accusations of inflexibility are astounding considering that she is not the least bit flexible with you.

Oh no, Sunday morning and this crowd are showing up:

"Here are my particular circumstances IN DETAIL. This is why everyone should pander to me and my health issues."

No, not really. Most of us are sick of treating everyone as a biological weapon. That's not life. We're social animals so that's what most of us will be doing. If you're scared - you stay at home. You don't get to tell others what to do. Not anymore. You've had your time in the sun. It is over now.

Your friend is perfectly entitled to do her own risk assessment and decide that the chances of catching Covid are too great. Not everyone is back to normal living. Some people are still being careful due to their personal circumstances. I think your comment about her seeking help and that we are in the UK, not Shanghai, says everything about what you think of your friend. You regard her as mentally unbalanced for taking steps to avoid a virus which closed the whole world down and which hasn't gone away. It will likely never go away, but people adapt to things in their own time and in their own way.

I would leave meeting up until your friend is more comfortable meeting inside, so that you have the choice between inside and outside. It could be a while, but the current situation is proving too difficult. She doesn't understand your difficulties with regard to childcare and you are impatient with both this fact and her insistence on meeting outdoors. Just keep in touch in other ways for now.

@SpidersAreShitheads

Some people on this thread are so bloody rude.

No one is in the wrong here. We are all entitled to make our own assessments of what is safe. And we all have our own attitude to risk. If your attitude doesn't match with someone else's you're under no obligation to force yourself to do something that doesn't work.

Cases are really high in some areas. Hospitalisations are increasing again. Vaccination immunity is wearing off. There are growing signs that COVID does more to the body than doctors initially realised (and certainly not comparable to a cold or flu).

I totally understand why people have had enough. I get it. I don't blame anyone for being back out there and mixing again. My close friends are. I'm not.

But I support a CEV elderly mum, and I'm a carer to two autistic DC, one with high needs. If I get ill wit COVID, I put my DM at serious risk. Also, if I get it, my DC will struggle to cope. I'm the one that needs to be providing care, they won't go to anyone else (shit situation but it is what it is). They struggle even if I get a headache for a few hours.

I can't afford to get ill myself (and I'm not in brilliant health so chances are that I'd be pretty poorly). Plus I really don't want to put my DM at risk.

For these reasons I'm choosing right now to not socialise indoors. I'll go to shops and I'd happily nip inside quickly to use the toilet, but I don't want to sit in a cafe, bar etc. I still wear a mask when I go shopping. My choices.

Obviously this won't be sustainable forever but while cases are so high, I'd rather be cautious. And if you want to sneer at that, you just crack on. I'm doing what feels right for my family. And luckily I've got friends who understand that when I feel able to socialise, I'll rejoin them at restaurants, and cinemas etc. But right now they understand that it's not for me.

The world has just been through a horrible pandemic that's killed thousands - a bit of fucking understanding about why some people are still anxious wouldn't go amiss from some of you.

@SpidersAreShitheads

Totally agree with you. We're all navigating this pandemic as best we can, and have different ideas about the level of risk we're willing to take

The issue doesn't seem to be the fact she wants to meet outside. It's more that she changes at short notice, and wouldn't be receptive to compromises that would work for both of you e.g. sitting in your garden.
I'd offer her the latter if she changes again. You are respecting her wanting to stay outdoors, seems only fair that she acknowledges your needs as a parent to look after your DC.

[quote Lemons1571]@Lincslady53 I’m not really sure how i can support her, as I can’t see her in person. I’m just not prepared to sit outside in the rain and tbh neither is she. She won’t go to a pub even on the outside covered tables, in case she needs the loo inside etc. What sort of support could I offer?[/quote]
Thats just crazy, she won't even go inside using a mask to use the toilet?

@Imlovinglife

Oh no, Sunday morning and this crowd are showing up:

"Here are my particular circumstances IN DETAIL. This is why everyone should pander to me and my health issues."

No, not really. Most of us are sick of treating everyone as a biological weapon. That's not life. We're social animals so that's what most of us will be doing. If you're scared - you stay at home. You don't get to tell others what to do. Not anymore. You've had your time in the sun. It is over now.

As I said in my comment - some people on this thread are just bloody rude and inconsiderate.

Most people who are preferring to steer clear of socialising aren't trying to tell anyone else what to do. We accept we're in the minority and accept that other people feel differently. We're not trying to stop anyone else doing what they want, but we have our own boundaries for ourselves. Yet we're the ones being sneered at - as this comment demonstrates perfectly.

One more time for the people at the back - if you want to go out, you crack on. We're not trying to stop you. We're just trying to explain why there might be a reason we choose not to, hence all the "DETAIL" that's apparently so tedious. There's the vain hope that explaining why someone might feel differently means that people might respect differing views but it's clearly pointless.

As I said before, we are all entitled to do what we think is right for our personal circumstances - and there shouldn't be any judgement for that. Either way. Go out. Don't go out. Whatever. Do what feels right for you.

@notanothertakeaway - exactly, thank you.

I think it's fair enough that, as a person who wants to avoid encountering covid, she's taking responsibility for that herself. When 1 in 13 people currently have the virus, if a person chooses to go somewhere indoors for a leisure activity (ie not supermarket, GP etc) they are essentially choosing to encounter covid. She gets this, in a way that some of the posters we've had on here complaining about people with a cough in the cinema or spa or some other completely optional place they've gone to do not. If she goes into a pub to use the bog or order a drink, in all likelihood there will be someone with covid there. So she's acting accordingly.

However, what's not reasonable of her is the rest of it. She's foolish and entitled to think someone who she must know has young children and no local family can chop and change according to her whims, and to not be willing to make compromises that won't expose her to covid.

Have you pointed out to her that you can't change plans at such short notice because of childcare? I think you do need to spell it out, even though it should be obvious.

Sounds like she’s making it too much hassle to meet up. Does it not occur to her that short notice childcare is an issue?! She doesn’t seem that bothered about accommodating your needs so maybe it’s time to make that clear to her.

mlovinglife

Let the hysterics hang out with the hysterics - outside and all masked up. I'm totally done with them by now.“

Don’t be vicious. Lots of people have to consider very vulnerable loved ones.
“Learning to live with it” means having to think about and make allowances for everyone, not just yourself.

Neither are being unreasonable. I think inviting her to your garden is the best option. Agree you really need to spell it out to her that you dont have childcare.