To think having kids is brutal

[Peachypear10]

My impression of raising children is that it's a long, horrible slog where every day for 18+ years is spent sacrificing all your time, energy, money and identity, and being exhausted, stressed, duty bound and miserable. That's generally the impression I get from MN.

I have several friends who have young kids (the kids are mostly all aged around 5 or under). Every single mum is on (or has been on) antidepressants long term, they don't sleep, are frequently ill with bad colds or bugs, are stressed and anxious all the time, and are always struggling financially. They all complain of existing in a non stop, exhausted haze of satisfying their children 24/7, while trying to hold down a job. And also desperately trying to maintain functioning relationships with partners, ex partners, family, friends etc.

I'm mid 30s and quite a way off being stable enough (money and living situation wise) to have a family. Wondering whether to just ditch the idea altogether rather than knocking my pan out over the next few years to set up all the foundations, (affording a home suitable for a family, etc) only in order to have a further soul destroying couple of decades. And especially when children have such a tough time now, need financial support well into adulthood, and the world is basically burning...

Your description of having kids isn’t anything like it’s been for us. We’ve loved it, our kids are teenagers so can’t see that changing now. Lack of sleep in the first few years was probably the only thing that was really difficult but you get through. Having a good partner was key for me, I never felt alone. Being in a good financial situation makes it so much easier too in my opinion.

@Organictangerine

They take over your body, house and mind.

Sounds like the movie Alien.

They don’t ‘take over your body’ obviously there’s the pregnancy part, which I can’t lie and say is easy (is for some, not me), but that’s only a short period of time in the scheme of things.

It does and can take over your body, you don't just ping back with everything being where it needs to be and working how it was pre baby.

Some women deal with long term physical changes which can also become permanent.

And no it is not for a short period of time in the scheme of things

Nah, I would not say brutal. It's had it's moments, but so have lots of things. I have four kids and mostly I've enjoyed it and found it rewarding in a way that most things aren't.

You do have to give up expectations that you are owed certain things. Like a full nights sleep every night. That's not to say you never get that, but it's never a guarantee. In some ways though I think giving up that kind of expectation is one of the benefits of becoming a parent, because the reality is we aren't owed sweet fa by the universe and the expectation that we are is responsible for a lot of human misery. Life is a hard scrabble unless you are very lucky and the privilege involved in not realizing that is pretty huge. Take your joy where it comes, bla bla.

SEN kids, lack of money, lack of partner's support, lack of parental /familial support, luck (in terms of physical and mental health), personality (yours, your partner's, and your child's) are all variables that can turn a joyful experience into a brutal one, even aside from war or natural disasters. And you can't predict most of them.

If you’re naturally anxious then the combination of hormones and extreme parental comparison and guilt can make it pretty crap. I have a child with SEN who wasn’t diagnosed for years. So that added to the guilt/anxiety.

I’d tell my younger self/ someone else to have kids but remember you’re a person too. My well-being is important and it’s okay if your kids go to a less good school, live in a less ideal place or do less ‘activities’ (we do hardly any organised ones!) if the life you live together is happy and loving.
I’m a better mum now for being less anxious and more confident when the queen bee mums like to brag (have a child with SEN I’m on a loser there!).

For me personally, I would absolutely have children again. I’d just ban “should” and “must” from my mental vocabulary.

Brutal is a very hard word! Yes it’s hard work and on some days perhaps brutal would be appropriate…think important deadlines at work at the same time as chickenpox 😮 but the vast majority of time, I find it very rewarding and the overwhelming love I have for my DS outweighs everything!
That said, a lot of what you said in your post rings true to what my friends said to me before I was pregnant ans also during my pregnancy. It did affect me and make me question if being a mum was the right thing as so many people made it sound negative to me but I have always wanted to be a mum so I ignored them and I’m so glad I did.
To address a few of your points:
I have never been on antidepressants
My DS has slept well since 8 months and so I do regularly get a good nights sleep from 10.30-6.30am (DS usually asleep until 7, when I have to wake him to take him to nursery).
He gets poorly sometimes from nursery but not that often and most things don’t make their way to me!

Me and the DH do go out a lot less than we used to ( we’d previously eat out most weeks and go for cocktails most weekends) but we were discussing it the other day and honestly, neither of us miss it that much! We spend more time together in other ways, so we did our garden nice in lockdown and built a little bar so that we feel like we are out/ away on nice days and it’s so much fun and a lot cheaper! We’ve been together 17 years and DS is 16 months so honestly we’d probably have just continued wasting money of eating, drinking etc! Having DS felt like the next natural (probably long overdue) step. I think in some respects though we are very lucky as because we have been together so long we have done everything that we wanted to (bought a home, travelled etc). I am also personally very lucky as my DH is very hands on both in terms of being a dad and pulling his weight around the house! I think this does make a huuuge difference to how mums feel- the support of a partner can make or break the family unit!
We must love it, as we are expecting our second (very much planned) at the end of summer!

From your post though, you sound unsure as to whether you actually want children or if you feel like you should have them because it’s what society expects. I would chat your your partner and family and friends etc to get a better insight from those that know you best! Friends can be negative and flippant at first but Change their tune once in a deeper conversation. I do have several friends who don’t have children and don’t plan to and they are very happy…but then so am I! It really is such a personal thing.

One of my kids is very hard work and the other super easy. Luck of the draw. I had my kids when I was very well established but still young ( again luck of the draw). Still have found it brutal.

I am not sure I would have kids now given the state of the world. But I think I would have felt something was missing. It is very hard to have the same relationships with friends especially post Covid.

I find it very meaningful even when hard. Which is not to say other things are not.

I think it depends on whether you are the right person to have children.

I have to admit that I don't think that I am.

I'm supposedly in the sweet spot with 5, 8 and 11 year old children but I find the whole thing exhausting.

I'm hoping that covid, other health issues and a house move is causing the burn out and that being back to normal for a while will make it enjoyable again.

My kids are now up in the night more than when they were toddlers, and are finding everything difficult. Having to be the emotional sounding board is utterly draining though especially as it seems to be needed when I'm already in bed/asleep.

Maybe I'm just not cut out to be a parent. Pregnancy and parenting has caused damage to my mental and physical health, and covid has basically tipped me over the edge.

If you don't REALLY REALLY want kids, then don't have them. It's not something you can take back and it's a huge commitment.

My DH and I have chosen not to have kids.
My friends' children bring them loads of joy, but they also seem totally exhausted by parenting.
I think, generally speaking, the nuclear family model leaves people without enough support. One of the reasons we've decided not to bother is that we live hours from both of our families and would have to raise kids in isolation, which I think would leave us feeling too stretched.
And the model of working full time and racing around to nursery and school drop off and pick ups - with after school activities too for many kids - looks like a nightmare.

There are brutal moments and sometimes it’s really hard. But it’s the best thing ever.

I think you have to remember that anyone with under 5s spent some of the really difficult pre-school years in various lockdowns, often trying to juggle WFH with small children who couldnt entertain themselves for even short periods of time.

DH and I were both key workers and working flat out, my job couldn't be done from home buy I had to try and do it from home because we didn't have any childcare because our children were below school age and we had only used grandparents previously. I was letting my children down and letting my vulnerable clients down.

I can't talk about that time without becoming tearful and probably have some mild ptsd.

It's not because of the children though.

@ImplementingTheDennisSystem

My DH and I have chosen not to have kids. My friends' children bring them loads of joy, but they also seem totally exhausted by parenting. I think, generally speaking, the nuclear family model leaves people without enough support. One of the reasons we've decided not to bother is that we live hours from both of our families and would have to raise kids in isolation, which I think would leave us feeling too stretched. And the model of working full time and racing around to nursery and school drop off and pick ups - with after school activities too for many kids - looks like a nightmare.

It's funny you should say this because on another thread I am being slaughtered for saying there is nothing wrong in taking a little help from parents ( if they are willing).

I suppose I'd throw the question back to you OP, why are you interested in having kids? You must be, despite how brutal it sounds, or you wouldn't need to start this thread. Your answer will be the same reason a lot of people have kids. It isn't logical, it's just something you want to do.

Its not that hard to me, but I'm lazy so take short cuts and also luckily have easy kids.

Another way I'd explain it is that yes it's a sacrifice, but it's a sacrifice for yourself. It's making copies of yourself to carry on your genes, you are the only one benefiting from it. It's not like giving up time and energy for a friend or a stranger. You are using your time and energy on yourself. Doesn't sound so bad or so selfless when you put it that way.

Don't have kids if you don't want them though. You are right that climate change means it's not the best idea unfortunately.

Life is brutal

It’s certainly not for everyone.

Your friends are just a small snapshot of parents. A lot of us are very happy with it!

Regards to MN I don’t think you can tell how happy people really are, overall, in real life by their posts here. There’s a lot of venting.

It's really hard. I barely consider myself to be a person anymore...I exist purely to facilitate everyone else's lives and to perform a series of household tasks.

I've seen the same, OP - although all my friends with children obviously adore them, the vast majority of what they talk about is how hard it is (on their relationships, their bodies, their constant exhaustion, the permanent illness, the juggling childcare even with family help, the stress of work alongside parenting), even those with engaged partners. My Instagram stories are full of my friends with kids posting about how hard it is, how they need to talk to one another to share how soul-destroyingly difficult they're all finding it to find strength in each others' experiences, how they haven't done something for themselves in months, how they've spent every weekend in the last 6 weeks ferrying from party to football to Brownies etc etc.

It seems EXHAUSTING, and really puts me off.

Maybe there's a kind of pendulum swing away from 'everything is amazing, parenting is a complete joy' that's tipped a bit too far in the opposite direction and in the interests of being honest, parents are now more inclined to share the bad out of fear they'll look like they're being disingenuous about the reality. Maybe it's a good thing that people like me - I wouldn't consider myself someone who'd be a natural parent - see that and see no benefit in it, because it helps me make a decision that would be otherwise harder.

A PP mentioned whether you're already inclined that way might affect how you experience parenting and I think that's an astute observation - I think I would probably struggle quite a lot with many aspects of parenting, for various reasons, and that would be a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy. Whereas if you're naturally laidback and go with the flow and anticipating a joyful time, you might be more inclined to enjoy it despite the hard parts.

Anything worth doing is hard work.

I'm not having children as stated uptread, but this is beautiful.

But sometimes I feel my heart might actually burst with how much I love DS. His little hugs and word ramblings and excitement when he learns how to do new things. I get to view this world through his little tiny mind every day. In his mind there is nothing wrong with the world, it’s an amazing exciting place and I love that.

I absolutely don't think children are right for everyone, and think remaining childfree or choosing to have children are equally great decisions, but I don't recognise this as being the case across the board:

Every single mum is on (or has been on) antidepressants long term, they don't sleep, are frequently ill with bad colds or bugs, are stressed and anxious all the time, and are always struggling financially. They all complain of existing in a non stop, exhausted haze of satisfying their children 24/7, while trying to hold down a job. And also desperately trying to maintain functioning relationships with partners, ex partners, family, friends etc.

There tends to be a lot of weird assumptions about parents, that life is just one big stress ball with people surviving on pennies. Sure for some people that's the case, but plenty of people I know balance careers, have a social life and aren't on antidepressants (even if they were lots of people of childbearing age are so doesn't necessarily stem from children). As with anything circumstance plays a huge part along with how you are as a person. I have a well paid flexible job so we are fortunate to not have to worry about money, DH does his share (as he should) around the house and with DS, I have a great support network and see my friends plenty. Realise that's very privileged but a lot of people I know are the same so just as not everyone is like us not everyone is like your OP.

All that matters is what you want out of life really, your circumstances and the impact it'll have on you.

Yanbu.
I'm a working lone parent, youngest child has behavioural issues and I no longer have a village to help raise them. It's mostly awful tbh.