To end a friendship due to his use of sex workers?

[Cornishjam1162]

It has recently come to light that a friend of 15 years is a regular customer of sex workers. We have always wondered why he never wanted to date again after getting a divorce and now it makes sense. I would have never had him down as the type and I'm shocked to say the least. I don't know the circumstances behind why the women do that line of work but there's always the risk that they're not doing it out of their own free will isn't there? I feel like he could well be exploiting vulnerable women.

Would you end a friendship over this? Am I being too judgemental?

@AdamRyan so you're tarring all men with the same brush ??

It's none of your business. If he hadn't told you, you'd be none the wiser. His own fault for telling you though and you can end a friendship for any reason you like.

I couldn't be friends with him anymore.

However, I don't agree that he's a rapist!

@Awalkintime

The rape comment was so far fetched, I can’t believe someone actually wrote that

If someone has sex with someone knowing full well this person might've been trafficked and might be being forced then you know consent is not being given. Therefore without knowing which women have been you can assume that you know the person in front of you likely has been. You know you are having sex with someone who likely is being forced and as a result is not able to freely give her consent. You know this yet you still do this. What is this called? Having sex without consent...rape.

@Awalkintime what are you even talking about? Have you ever met a sex worker in real life because it doesn’t seem like you have.

Many MANY sex workers literally run their own business/page and they’ll tell you it’s something they enjoy doing. Men are able to form professional friendships in these situations where they’re able to speak to these women and know it’s something they want to do. You don’t just turn up at some brothel and take your pick not knowing who’s been trafficked and who hasn’t. You sound like you watch too much TV instead of meeting a sex worker in real life….

The problem is that empowerment is a fallacy. They can feel empowered and in control when they’re doing, and when they step away and rebuild their lives into a different direction, that’s when the trauma comes out.

We’re in an age when prostitution has even been taken online, because that’s what OnlyFans is and it’s blurring the lines even more for men who think it’s porn but don’t realise their ‘requests’ are actually demands and women are ‘performing’ acts they don’t want to do just to keep their income coming in.

To your initial aibu - yanbu to end a friendship for any reason you want. If this is a line for you, it’s a line. I think it shows such a lack of respect for women and doesn’t acknowledge the nuance of misogyny and how this effects all women. Because if women, even willing women, are purchased, it breeds a culture of predatory, misogynistic behaviour that permeates all society and our ongoing battle for equality.

My comments dont enable men like him at all, your being ridiculous and argumentative for the sake of being a nasty cow really arnt you

Can you not disagree with someone without being sexist and insulting? Your comments about me are really nasty. I've said nothing to deserve your hatred. I guess this is what happens when people don't fall for the "happy hooker" storyline.

I'm going to ignore any replies from you now as your literally ranting over things you've made up. Not one thing you've said about my posts is true, yet your hysterical and angry over your own made up dribble

Yes, please do ignore me. Thanks.

As is usual this thread has turned into being about whether or not women can choose sex work and find it empowering. OP was talking about a man.

Personally I wouldn't want to be friends with someone who sees sex as a transaction. I think it indicates a general misogynist outlook that would extend to other areas of life.

It is no surprise to me that use of sex workers is correlated with violence (as shown in the link upthread). Men who use sex workers are demonstrating their entitlement and lack of consideration for others. Their desires come first. Its bleurgh.

babywalker56
They might tell you they enjoy doing it and you know that is the truth? Really? Many people say they are fine in real life but really aren't does that make it the truth does it?

Lots of people do this as an act of self harm. So you mean they would choose to sleep with these people without payment on a regular day? If they wouldn't then they are not consenting.

No sorry my TV has not been switched on in the 5 years I've lived here. So given I don't watch TV that lame put down really didn't work.

Where is he meeting these woman?

I haven't got a clue to be honest with you. The conversation ended pretty abruptly when I made clear what I think about it.

Former escort here (sex worker, prostitute, whatever you want to call it)

NC for obv reasons.

In my humble opinion, based on my own personal experience and the experiences of women I knew at the time - the happy hooker myth is BS.

If a woman really is doing it of her own free will then thats one thing at least, but I don't know one woman who engaged in sex work that doesn't have emotional trauma, be it from childhood or as a result of the sex work itself.

I'm irreparably damaged, and I was hardly standing on a street corner in all weather's exchanging my body for a pittance. I was paid £150 per hour for my time, bought gifts, received big tips, taken for dinner and shopping.

Wishing you all the best Nothanks

I'm male, straight and usually single (relevant). I worked for 2 years in SE Asia but not Thailand - somewhere more conservative that you would not associate with sleaze.

It was incredibly lonely, because every time I thought I had made a new friend, it turned out that their idea of a night out was to end up in a brothel, or a nightclub full of prostitutes. The only bloke who invited me for a few beers and didn't want to go to a brothel turned out to be gay, and it turned out that I was on a date and hadn't realised, so that wasn't much better.

Men I worked with used to have preferences - this one liked Russians, this one liked Filipinas.

I was in a relationship. She was from a Western country, highly educated and on double my salary, but was non-white so often taken for a local. I got approving comments about my new "little friend" from these guys who would go to Thailand and the Philippines for a week and treat themselves to a "girlfriend experience".

I know it sounds like I'm boasting ... I'm not like those other men ... I'm not trying to. I'm telling you that without general societal disapproval of pervy behaviour, the standards slip.

Stuckdown that’s so grim. Male bonding culture should not = exploitation and abuse.

@Bookworm20

Not all sex workers are unwilling.some,many,enjoy the income and it suits their path in life at that time. Don't be so easy to judge until you know all the facts.

I'd say this applies to a very small minority, not many as you've suggested. And the thing is this man does NOT know if the sex worker is willing or not. And simply does not care.

What you've said is basically the age old line men trot out about the women have 'chosen' this line of work and enjoy it. perhaps some yes. But do they honestly think women with great choices in life would chose this. For most its a means to an end, because of a lack of choices.

In answer to your question OP, No I couldn't be friends with a man who thought a womans body is there for him to purchase and use in that way.
I could never have any respect for any man doing that. It would make my skin crawl.

Wonder if he'd like it as a career choice for his daughters

@ErmIDontKnow

But that's my point. If another job paid as much and was simple, would you elect to spend your time talking to sleazy men who are partly getting off on the fact that you have to do stuff with them, whether you like it or not? I'd be surprised if you really thought that you would.

See but that's the thing. Again, not speaking for everyone. But in my circle you only take on clients you want to take on. You speak beforehand on what you both want to happen and then do what you have agreed on.

Again, not everyone. But in our circle, you do what YOU want. Not what the man wants. He is paying you yes but you've agreed to his requests before hand. I've turned down so many requests from men because I'm not into what their after.

I know people have kinks ..... theres a well known kink site within "my" community and so many women love that sort of thing.

It just depends who you know really doesn't it. So many are shocked on here yet if your on this side of the world then it's all pretty normal stuff

I suspect 'your circle' is not indicative of most of the sex services in this country.

And as a previous poster suggested, even if a vanishingly small minority of women actually enjoy being degraded, wee'd on and having their face pushed into the floor, as one punter so charmingly put it, it affects how women are viewed in society. You being treated like that, is certainly not empowering for me.

@Cornishjam1162 back to your question ...

I know some people think that calling punters rapists is 'a bit much' but as I and others have pointed out upthread, there is no way that your friend can be certain the women have consented.

Of course he is unlikely to have given it much consideration and I assume thinks he's a good guy, so ask him.

Genuinely ask him if he can be 100% certain that there is no coercion (I won't get into the argument that if a woman only consents for pay then it's not consent). Ask him if he'd be happy for his daughter to be prostituted.

Give him time to think about it. I'd be interested to hear his response.

I just picked this at random from Punter net.

A lovely site where punters can review their experiences.

Tell me this isn't rapey. Her inexperience and clear lack of enjoyment is her problem, and clearly gives the reviewer no cause to reflect on his own behaviour.

Grim, but no doubt many are much worse.

"So i had not booked so turned up to be greated by 3 girls available Victoria, Sasha and Serena. Went against my better judgement of a very attractive petite younger girl.

Got in the room typical have a shower be back in 5. Wasnt even finished drying off when she came in. Asked would i like a massage so yes why not. Then asked what am i after I opted for GFE she said yes thats okay (quickly found she doesnt offer this) tomd her its her 2nd shift so she is new and then strangely she asked to check my cock out as she wants to be safe when offering owo, fair enough i didnt mind i dont have anything and she is thinking of her safety however its the 1st time ive ever been asked that. She then say oh hun there are little bumps round the edge do you mind if i use condom, at this point i knew she is inexperienced these are glands that make up the tissue of the penis and completely normal. Anyways on with the hood and to be fair she gave amazing head. Quite soon in said to tell her when im ready to fuck her. Before this i wanted to taste her she was okay with this i asked her sit on my face she said okay but she has been gym doing leg day so might not last long, she didnt she asked me to lick her lying down, this didnt last long either she wanted to go straight to fucking so at that point i knew she was just rushing the service. I asked her go on top she got on and immediately went nope my legs so cN i go on top, i did then come the face sex noises and oh im cumming, tried putting hand on her neck slightly choke (oh my chest), tried kissing (oh i dont kiss) after within seconds omg ive cum. I asked her go on her knees for doggy (she put lube on clearly didnt cum) went at it from behind tried grabbing hair (dont pull my hair) i just wanted to finish at this point and because i can control when i cum fucked a bit hard and did. Got dressed paid and left.

Overall terrible experience she clearly didnt know what she was doing, hadnt done this before joining the parlour, doesnt know what gfe is. All looks with no substance. Should advertise what she doesnt do rather than does. Only redeeming factor is she can suck dick"

That was not a pleasant read at all. I don’t understand the acronyms and happily so. The ‘slightly choke’ gave me the shudders. The poor girl sounded like she hated every single horrifying second. Disgusting man but probably not unique in the cesspool of clientele that frequent those places.

Exactly. He was annoyed she didn't want to be choked.

Just read another where the punter complained that the woman was 'clearly miserable'.

Again this is seen as poor customer service rather than that the men are committing rape. Gross

Well I couldn’t be friends with someone who enjoys having sex with women who don’t want to have sex with him, and yes if you have pay someone to have sex with you they’re not doing it for fun. It just shows their attitude and respect towards women, in their eyes sex isn’t mutual, it’s something men obtain from women.

When I was a student 20 years ago, I worked behind the bar in a 'gentleman's club' (strip club) for a while (I was drawn because the pay was higher than average for bar staff - I found out why pretty quickly).

This was a 'high end' place - everything cost a lot of money, from the door entry to the dances, so wasn't just a seedy old fellas' bar. The clientele were what you would think of as 'normal' men - a lot of professional services in particular (lawyers, accountants etc).

I got to know a lot of the dancers quite well and all of them - to a woman - had some form of trauma in their past, from childhood abuse to DV or substance abuse. These women were frequently beautiful and often very talented dancers in their own right.

More interesting was the way that many of them spoke about men - A lot had become very hardened and cynical (many were gay or bisexual) and some genuinely loathed the 'punters', although they plastered on a professional smile.

I was actually single for quite a long time after that experience (I lasted six months), because I pretty much got the hard-core 'ick' about men as a species.

I would not and could not stay friends with anyone once I realised they used people in any context, as that is treating human beings as things. This is all the more the case with men who go to prostitutes, as they are buying access to a human body to sate their baser urges on. In the process such men at least casually disregard the humanity of the prostitute, and at worst are actively abusive to them, and sometimes even murder them. It's horrifying to me when I think of it. What makes it worse is, so many prostitutes are being exploited to some degree, and would not do it if they had a better option, or in some cases, any choice at all!
I think you'd have every right to drop him OP.

I'd find it difficult to be friends with somebody who saw women as a series of holes to be exploited. As u probably will now. Have a look for the invisible man project or one of the punter/john review sites for an insight into their view of women.