to not tell anyone about my ‘legal wedding’?

[ShotgunSummerWedding]

I should be so happy, but I’m so upset by my family’s reaction. I know MN is usually well in favour of the married couple to be doing whatever they wish, but just really want to vent and hear some similar stories. I want to preface this by saying I am my parents only child.

Me and my fiancé are due to welcome our baby girl in June after miscarriages and general misery. This pregnancy is going well and I am feeling a bit more hopeful each day that we will meet her. We really wanted to be married and have a lovely small family wedding before DC, but the first pregnancy was unplanned and stuck us on the TTC treadmill as we tried to regain what we had lost. We thankfully have, and now marriage is back on the cards. Before it stopped being a priority as the only thing I cared about was being pregnant again.

Now I am and we definitely want to get married before the baby is born. First and foremost, we want to be a legal family and cement that before she is here. Practically, we are also worried about the medical aspects of not being each other’s next of kin (particularly if anything goes wrong at birth). My partner is also a foreign national and if we are not married at birth it is notoriously difficult for her to get his citizenship without a lot of paperwork and expense. Financially too, he is worried about me being a SAHM and not having the legal protections of marriage, particularly if he died before we planned a wedding.

So we booked a registry office for next month and have given notice to marry. This would be our ‘legal’ wedding in jeans and trainers, just tick off all of the above. Our witnesses will be two friends. No one else.

I don’t want family there because I am still not very well and I’m terrified that something will happen to my baby. If my family are there then that ceremony becomes my wedding day and it will be forever tainted. Also, my fiancé’s family are not able to travel at the moment and I do not want my MIL and FIL to feel excluded. This ceremony is our legal protection together. Nothing more.

We do want a wedding though. Next year we are then going to take our family and friends on a destination wedding blessing next year and have bridesmaids, a cake, speeches and a nice party. When I am hopefully happier and in a better mental place after my daughter arriving safely.

I told my mother my plans (not set dates, just intentions) and she was furious and unkind. She is usually a lovely, non-toxic person. In her eyes, the vows are the most important thing and she is will be heartbroken if she doesn’t see them. She told me that if I am just going to see my marriage as a piece of paper, then I may as well bin my engagement ring and get a plastic one

She eventually calmed down and sent me a text saying that she was sad, but I needed to do what was right for my family. I though this was her blessing and tried to talk to her a little more ‘would you like to know when we book somewhere?’ ‘Would you like pictures?’ but she quickly got angry and asked to be there. I explained all of the above, and she still didn’t get it and pulled faces. I have tried to get her excited about our ceremony next year, asking about bridesmaid’s dresses and planning dress shopping, but she rolled her eyes and said if my destination wedding guest list was so small then there was no point.

I’m at a loss of what to do. She keeps asking me about it but everything I say upsets her. I’m currently in the mindset that I want to just say “we’re not doing that because of how you have acted” but just go and do it anyway. And to tell no one. This is actually what my dad has advised…

But it just feels so untruthful I’m so excited to be married and this just feels like something else (like my pregnancy) that has been ruined.

I can understand why your DM is upset but I think she should accept it as it’s your choice and I can understand why you want to do things this way. I don’t see any issue with couples having a low key legal ceremony then a celebration at a later date.

But the problem is, as shown by this thread alone, is some people see the legal bit as the wedding and some see the celebration/party as the wedding no matter how long after the legal bit takes place, and to be honest I struggle to understand the latter.

I understand a wedding to be a ceremony where two people get married. It varies (couple’s choice) with who attends, location, what happens after the ceremony etc, but it’s still a wedding. So no matter how basic you plan it, the legal bit is the marriage ceremony and from next month you will be a married couple. By the time your celebration abroad comes around you would have been married for a year. So how can next year’s celebration be a wedding? At best it’s a blessing/vow renewal. YANBU to want to celebrate in this way but I do think YABU to call it a wedding. It isn’t.

Whatever you do don’t lie though. Just make your decision and stand by it. Or do it and tell people soon afterwards. I found out a ‘wedding’ I was invited to was the celebration and the legal ceremony was planned for months before, I don’t think they wanted to wait, which is fine. But I found out from a mutual friend and not the couple. I find it really deceitful and I believe a lot of other ‘wedding’ guests also may not know. I’m not bothered about missing the legal bit at all and happy to celebrate separately. I’m bothered about being lied to though.

OP I am so sorry that you are having to read some of the terrible posts on this thread, especially after your bereavements and when you are - understandably - very anxious. And when your MIL has been ill, and your soon-to-be-husband's family live in a different country. Mumsnet is so vicious and cruel, at times.

I think Staffymumma's post had the right idea. I got married very quietly, and did not tell my mother - or anyone else, except our two witnesses - until the day after. And - guess what - my mother was very happy for us. Very generous. Of course, she wished us all the best.

In an ideal world, I hope we would all be as kind as my mother was with anyone we love - she considered MY and my husband's feelings. She knew we were happy. It was NOT about her.

And for all those wittering on about signing the register. That is NOT, NOT, NOT the legal bit. It's the exchange of vows between the couple, at a register office or in a church or wherever. In the UK those have to be witnessed, by a registrar or a person - perhaps a priest - licensed by the state. The signature bit is just for the official documentation; it records a contract that has already been made.

The exchange of vows is called a marriage.
A wedding is all the fluff people may or may not choose to arrange about it.
As others have already said, in plenty - perhaps most - other countries, the legal ceremony and a religious, personal, spiritual exchange of vows are two completely separate and complementary occasions. And they need not happen at the same time.

How would you feel if your child didn't invite you to their wedding? I'd be absolutely devastated if I wasn't invited to attend my DC legal ceremony

@ShotgunSummerWedding, I did this. My husband and I were legally married a year ahead of our church wedding due to immigration-related reasons. We were living in his home country at the time. My parents couldn't travel, so his parents did not attend our registry wedding out of respect for my family. They felt it would be grossly unfair for only one set of parents to have been present. My parents still appreciate this (huge) gesture my PIL made for them.

Years later, my SIL did the same, only it was her parents (my in-laws) who couldn't attend because the registry wedding was abroad. In that situation, the groom's parents DID attend when the brides parents could not, and my PIL were (and remain) hurt by this.

Twigglet I would consider their needs, their personality, their preferences, and those of their soon-to-be-spouse.
A marriage is not a spectator sport. It's a private and personal agreement between two people.
Some people like to make a big display of their deepest most private emotions; others are more discreet; some are very shy.
Surely, surely, the feelings of the child must come uppermost, not those of parents.

Why not invite her to be a witness as a compromise?

Tell her you've made your choice and for reasons that are right for you, your partner and your child. Explain the protect it provides you and also her as a grandmother, especially in the unlikely even anything happens you. Grandparents right to see child much easier of the couple are married etc.

If you propose her as a witness, it's a fair compromise? It's up to her whether or not she has the human decency to accept your choice and how you are accommodating her.

I would say you’re being unreasonable except that her reaction says it all really- that’s exactly the sort of behaviour you’re trying to avoid because you need to look after your health. She’s just thinking of herself and not empathising.

I really wouldn’t discuss this with her or with anyone else any further otherwise doing a quiet wedding is just going to be pointless. You do you. Your own immediate family comes first and since it’s potentially a matter of life and death let this be the perfect opportunity to reclaim your boundaries and take care of yourself. You deserve to be happy. It’s your day and your life and you don’t have to care if other people get all bent out of shape. You can revisit thinking about and discussing a further future event once the baby is here and you’re all set up.

@TwiggletLover neither of our parents were at our legal ceremony which we had 2 weeks before DH had to submit his masters thesis. His grandfather and uncle were there as our witnesses. Oh and the translator cos this was in Germany.

my parents were asking me years later when I was planning my chinese banquet wedding, whether I should get someone in my home country to marry us. They didn't think it was a binding marriage because it wasn't in my home country and hence not recognized. I had to explain to them that it was recognized. DH's mum only sees marriage through the lens of religion so she only really wants to be there for the religious ceremony.

Marriage is a social construct (even if it has legal implications today) and means different things to different people. Legally yes, the legal ceremony is the only one that counts. However, that is not necessarily the case for a lot of people.

@Dinoteeth

Op forget the destination wedding - have a very small two friends, both sets of parents and go for dinner. Save yourself a fortune

This. For me the vows are the wedding. If I didn’t witness those I’d have no interest in the party.

@Blossomtoes I have hardly attended any weddings in my life then! I usually go to the chinese banquet evening reception. I don't think i have been to most of my cousins' solemnization except for the few who chose to have it on the day itself. Its a different culture but then OP's spouse is not British either so maybe they have a similar setup even if OP's mum doesn't understand it.

What an awful situation to be in. I can’t imagine how hard it must be for you after everything that is happened.

I guess the problem is, no matter how you cut it, your registry office wedding, IS your wedding. The ceremony the following year sounds lovely however you will already be married.

I get that your MIL can’t make it, but your mum can so I wouldn’t not invite one, if you can’t have both.

Can you move the date to as close to your DDate as possible so you might feel more confident?

@scottishnames

I don't think a parent wanting to attend there DC wedding means it is being turned into a spectator sport. For me personally it was incredibly important to share our wedding day with those we love. I thought that was a fairly common view point.

blossomtoes really seriously, just why? The vows are actually nothing to do with you; they are between the couple being wed. And it's not up to you to decide how your friends and/or family decide to make those vows.

It IS up to you when those friends/family invite you to share their happiness by celebrating the fact that they are married (where when and how they did this is NONE of your business). If you can't join with them when invited to share their joy, then just what sort of a friend/family member are you?

Twiglett If that is what YOU want, then fine. Of course. Good luck to you - very genuinely. But it was NOT what we or actually quite a lot of people I know wanted. Each to their own; anything else is a form of emotional bullying.

In this case the OPs very sad and very stressful circumstances - and illnes overseas - make that kind of sharing impossible. Surely those close to her should understand this?

Stick with your plans. Your wedding. Your decision. Your life.
Wishing you all the best regarding your pregnancy.

The vows are actually nothing to do with you; they are between the couple being wed.

That’s a fundamental misunderstanding of the marriage ceremony. It’s a public declaration of commitment. In answer to your question, the kind of friend and family member I am is one who wishes to witness the marriage. You don’t care. That doesn’t make you morally superior, despite your conviction that it does.

The party isn't a wedding. The wedding is the legal bit. You go into that unmarried and leave married.

Indulge yourself with a holiday and a fancy dress and a party if you want, but that's not a wedding. Don't pretend it is. Your mum wants to see her child get married and unless she attends the legal part she won't be able to do that.

@ColdSeptember

The party isn't a wedding. The wedding is the legal bit. You go into that unmarried and leave married.

Indulge yourself with a holiday and a fancy dress and a party if you want, but that's not a wedding. Don't pretend it is. Your mum wants to see her child get married and unless she attends the legal part she won't be able to do that.

I think this sort of attitude is very dismissive of the OP and her fiancé, not to mention the many people all over the world (not just on England-centric Mumsnet) who have chosen to separate their legal contract from their wedding celebration for a variety of perfectly good reasons.

Blossomtoes legally, you are wrong. Two witnesses are all that's required.
In Christian marriage, the couple give the sacrament of marriage to each other. They do this by 'verba de presenti' - words spoken in the present tense. The priest/minister conducts the service and the congregation act as witnesses.
In the past in the UK, the church got very bothered about 'secret' marriages - exchange of vows made by the couple with no witnesses. In one sense, they were spiritually valid (if both parties were telling the trueth). In another sense, it was much better when witnesses were present, so there could be no ambiguity. But in the UK, only two witnesses and a person licensed to conduct weddings (registrar, priest etc) are necessary.

You say you want to witness the vows. Why? What is it to you? Fine if the couple wish to display them, but does it not seem a bit intrusive otherwise?

For heaven's sake, what's all this rubbish about being morally superior?. I never said that and I can't imagine what's making you think it. The whole POINT of my comment was that it's about the individual couple's wishes. Nothing 'moral' about it. Other couples may have totally different views from mine and that's great, if that's what they want. Wonderful for them and I wish them all the very best. But I really don't think it's the concern of any onlookers.

@ColdSeptember

The party isn't a wedding. The wedding is the legal bit. You go into that unmarried and leave married.

Indulge yourself with a holiday and a fancy dress and a party if you want, but that's not a wedding. Don't pretend it is. Your mum wants to see her child get married and unless she attends the legal part she won't be able to do that.

So rude. Have you done considered that it’s actually normal for many people to do the legal bit first? Some religious places aren’t licensed.

OP congratulations for having your head screwed on the right way. You’re pregnant, you need to marry ASAP. Anybody quibbling over what a ‘real’ wedding is, or isn’t should be ashamed of themselves. If they disapprove so strongly then don’t attend. But your baby and security is the priority!

You might just have to ignore your mother.
The ship has sailed, you’re already pregnant she has to accept that. It’s not about HER.

She’s lucky that you’re getting married at all quite frankly. Many people never do.

It sounds like a difficult situation all round - your pregnancy losses, your anxiousness, your PILs being unable to travel.

But, on balance, I think you should have your mum at the registry office. I think if you don't then you will regret it later.

Slightly different situation, my sister eloped over 20 years ago and my mum is still upset about it, and they normally have a brilliant relationship.

“DM, we are doing this registry office thing. I will be wearing jeans. We will be going for McDonald’s afterwards. If you want you can come with DF but if you do I will not hear a word about it. If you don’t agree with my plans don’t come”.

You can’t exclude your mother from your legal wedding because your MIL is incapacitated. That’s not your mother’s fault. You CAN explain to her how you are doing it and hold firm.

You're getting married and saying your vows in the registry office. This is your wedding, not the overseas party. There is a difference. Why don't you just postpone till your PIL can travel and just have them and your parents. Plus if you're doped up in sertraline will you even really be married if you're not of sound mind? Also you can be next of kin and not be married, you just need to have your advance directive and poa in place.

Your plans sounds reasonable, and your mum seems very selfish sorry to say (I'm sure you could do without extra family drama). Probably best not to talk to her about the weddings anymore. Good luck with the pregnancy & everything

Wouldn't it be best to postpone everything until your baby is safely here?

This all sounds bonkers and a load of unnecessary stress.