Teachers- be honest please - do you judge or make assumptions?

[BlingLoving]

And if so, how often are you right?

eg when the kid turns up on day one with crazy curls, no hair tie (especially boys) do you immediately think, like I do, "oh no, this family is going to be a bit precious."

Or if the kid's clothes are consistently stained etc, do you chalk that up to parents having limited cash and taking view that school uniform is to be worn (my approach) or do you think they're just careless?

What about the ones who struggle to spend the time doing homework with their DC? Do you think they're just bad parents or are you sympathetic?

Plus the fact the daily hearing them read just got in the way. DD1's school had a stupid competition every week on a Wednesday evening about how much reading they could do on that evening. Some kids used to do so much they must have been sat reading from when they got home from school to bedtime. I don't think that's particularly healthy. DD1 used to have a dance class for two hours on a Wednesday and struggled to do half an hour that day, in spite of being an advanced reader.

Human nature will make us judge. Also it is in our duty of care to assess and keep an eye on children for signs of neglect.
This can be very very difficult to prove and get help for a child.
We are encouraged to record anything we feel is a bit off. Not to keep things to ourselves. If things are being noticed and reported then we have evidence of repeated behaviours and concerns. These can then be passed on and investigated.
A teacher should always try and develop a good relationship with their pupils and the families to support them best they can.

@FourChimneys

chillylizard that's interesting. A Nigerian mum whose child I taught would always pay double for everything with a note to say the extra was for someone who couldn't afford it. I assumed it was general loveliness but perhaps cultural as well?

I am from another part of Africa. I appreciate the issues with state education in this country but am usually so dazzled by the quality of education my children receive, FOR FREE that I never resent being asked to pay for things and have tended to pay the annual "optional" enrichment amount twice on the basis that other families can't afford it.

If I was paying school fees etc, I would not do this. So perhaps that's part of it?

At my work, some teachers can be a bit unrealistic about what parents can manage to do with their children. They don’t know how tired children are when they get home from school and how difficult it is for parents to fit in clubs, dinner, homework, reading, bath, correct sports kit etc. after a full day at work. On the flip side, some parents are a bit unrealistic about what teachers can manage to do with 30 children in their class.

I’m an ex secondary teacher. I’m afraid judging is part of human life and it’s something we all do mostly unconsciously, although most professionals will try and not let it impact but on their work.

The parents who I judged where the ones who said ‘I always support the school but [insert this week’s excuse] it often ended up with the parents asking school for help with their teenager’s behaviour in year 11. It absolutely did the students no favours and make their lives difficult. There are times when teachers make mistakes but some parents will instantly jump to ‘defend’ their child and when it’s a weekly issue across all subjects it’s time to look at the common denominator. I judged the full time foster carer who wouldn’t make 5 mins every evening to ensure the lovely, bright but disorganised due SEN year 7 student packed the correct things in his bag.

@Leol

At my work, some teachers can be a bit unrealistic about what parents can manage to do with their children. They don’t know how tired children are when they get home from school and how difficult it is for parents to fit in clubs, dinner, homework, reading, bath, correct sports kit etc. after a full day at work. On the flip side, some parents are a bit unrealistic about what teachers can manage to do with 30 children in their class.

This. Very good post.

I was incredulous about how much time school stuff took, and how much money was asked for, often at short notice- and then it was cash with paper slips to be returned to the office. There was just far more effort expected of parents then when I was at school and both of my parents worked - but that was much rarer then. And homework! Jesus. I never had regular homework at primary school.

Lots of teachers joke about being able to predict grades based on their 'experience' that's why there have been so many studies into proving confirmation bias amongst teachers and why it is so important anonymous marking is used. Teachers judge a lot, like most people they struggle with objectivity.

I think a lot depends on the teacher’s own circumstances. For example, I’m a TA who works with a teacher who is in her early 20s, still lives at home with parents in an affluent part of our already generally affluent town. No children of her own.

I’m twice her age and have 2 teenaged children.

Our school is caught between a deprived area and a more monied area. We’re in a year 3 class.

I would say she is pretty judgemental and expects a lot from children who may very well be living on the breadline. I’ve noticed a favouritism towards the children who are clean and tidy, have homework completed, reading books signed etc. She is definitely less tolerant of the children from the other end of the scale.

During a lesson on Oliver Twist, she suggested that there is no excuse for people to live in poverty theses days because “there is so much help available from the Government. It’s just laziness.”

The children who need extra support are often those from less privileged backgrounds (not always of course) and those are sent off in groups with TAs to do extra work. This means they have less time in class and are effectively “othered”. They are also essentially being taught by someone like me; ie most definitely not a qualified, experienced teachers. Surely, after the dreadful couple of years these children have had, those that are struggling ought to be taught by trained, experienced teaches??

I judged the full time foster carer who wouldn’t make 5 mins every evening to ensure the lovely, bright but disorganised due SEN year 7 student packed the correct things in his bag.

DS and I are ALREADY talking about this. He has executive function difficulties and he'll be in year 7 next year and I've told him we'll have to make a real effort with ensuring he has the right school books for the day and then for each period etc.

For me, I spend so much time helping him with this sort of thing that sometimes the other things fall by the wayside, which frustrates me (homework, reading etc). eg I try with homework, but just getting him to sit down, with his notebook and pencil, computer loaded up to get the relevant homework etc, can take FOREVER. And that's before we even start. Bearing in mind I'm working full time and that DH works evenings so I'm usually alone in the evenings trying to feed kids, oversee homework, get younger DD to bed etc and often still finishing off work or taking calls/messages from clients in different time zones (run my own business)

On plus side, I think his teacher understands and we have a regular dialogue about what we're doing/not doing at home and what we're prioritising. But I do worry that she thinks I'm not doing enough (although, she was sympathetic when I was basically in tears on one occasion. As a result of that conversation though I do worry that she might think me and DH don' have a good relationship or that I expect too much or that he's a lazy dick. None of which is true!)

Not a teacher but a friend of my mum's said she judged on names. So Chardonnay was going to have to work harder to make a good impression than Sophie or Olivia were.

I was glad that my son's school didn't do home visits before he joined reception. I am sure teachers have a view about the nice middle class homes which have lots of books, and those which don't!

@yellowsuninthesky

Not a teacher but a friend of my mum's said she judged on names. So Chardonnay was going to have to work harder to make a good impression than Sophie or Olivia were.

I was glad that my son's school didn't do home visits before he joined reception. I am sure teachers have a view about the nice middle class homes which have lots of books, and those which don't!

That's horrible

@BlingLoving

Interesting. I guess it's different types of judgement, even in my OP, and in the answers... eg manners telling you something about a family where a judgement is just broadly negative vs dirty clothes telling you something else that is not so much judgement as figuring out how to support.

Like I said, I tend to immediately make assumptions about families where the children have copious long curls, never tied back. I just know they're going to be all tinkly laughs and "oh so liberal" while their kids are probably hooligans! . x 100 if it's the boys who have these curls. So far I've been right every time but I look forward to being wrong at some point.

It's not only teachers who make judgements though, eg if I were a store detective I'm sure there would be types of customers I would watch, the police will judge 'types' eg a high powered car with 6 or 7 young men in it. As a teacher I certainly made judgements about pupils, your final paragraph is so true, the parents who allows their child to push the rules to breaking point will be the one who only shows up when they want to complain!

@BlingLoving

I judged the full time foster carer who wouldn’t make 5 mins every evening to ensure the lovely, bright but disorganised due SEN year 7 student packed the correct things in his bag.

DS and I are ALREADY talking about this. He has executive function difficulties and he'll be in year 7 next year and I've told him we'll have to make a real effort with ensuring he has the right school books for the day and then for each period etc.

For me, I spend so much time helping him with this sort of thing that sometimes the other things fall by the wayside, which frustrates me (homework, reading etc). eg I try with homework, but just getting him to sit down, with his notebook and pencil, computer loaded up to get the relevant homework etc, can take FOREVER. And that's before we even start. Bearing in mind I'm working full time and that DH works evenings so I'm usually alone in the evenings trying to feed kids, oversee homework, get younger DD to bed etc and often still finishing off work or taking calls/messages from clients in different time zones (run my own business)

On plus side, I think his teacher understands and we have a regular dialogue about what we're doing/not doing at home and what we're prioritising. But I do worry that she thinks I'm not doing enough (although, she was sympathetic when I was basically in tears on one occasion. As a result of that conversation though I do worry that she might think me and DH don' have a good relationship or that I expect too much or that he's a lazy dick. None of which is true!)

I know it’s not easy having an child with additional needs or just organising kids/teenagers in general. This child in question was very independent with doing the work he just couldn’t get it into his bag and his foster carer who was full time foster carer just wouldn’t remind him to check his bag because he thought the child shouldn’t need to be reminded at secondary school. A completely different situation of we can’t because x, y, z.

I’m sure you know but lots of parents in this situation have a pencil case at home for homework and a school one which never leaves their bag outside of the classroom.

I’m sure you know but lots of parents in this situation have a pencil case at home for homework and a school one which never leaves their bag outside of the classroom.

NO, I did not know that and frankly, that's GENIUS. As it's never come up because at primary everything is provided, I hadn't even thought of that. But it's a really good idea. Thank you. DS, bless him, told me that he thinks he'll just carry ALL his books for the school day as he knows he's going to struggle with getting Book A and Book B for periods 1 and 2 and then book C and D for Periods 3 and 4 after break etc.

During a lesson on Oliver Twist, she suggested that there is no excuse for people to live in poverty theses days because “there is so much help available from the Government. It’s just laziness.”

Not ok. Teachers aren't allowed to push political positions on children would be ok to explain about systems we have without the laziness comment.

The children who need extra support are often those from less privileged backgrounds (not always of course) and those are sent off in groups with TAs to do extra work. This means they have less time in class and are effectively “othered”. They are also essentially being taught by someone like me; ie most definitely not a qualified, experienced teachers. Surely, after the dreadful couple of years these children have had, those that are struggling ought to be taught by trained, experienced teaches??

It's a tricky one, because whilst schools are measured on performance teachers are always going to need to prioritise children on the cusp of achieving national expectations as makes more of an impact to rankings than those who are far off.

Sadly this is common.practise in schools enabled by Ofsted.

@Cherrysoup

We judge constantly. If a child’s clothes are stained and he/she looks uncared for, I’d speak to the head of year, see if the child needs spare uniform. One little lad was in grey sleeves (white shirt), constantly filthy, so I organised spare shirts and to wash his uniform and dry it while he had PE so it wasn’t obvious.

I perfectly understand that some parents don’t have time to do homework, so we make homework easy to complete (links, learning only, offering use of the tablets at lunch)

I hope that most teachers ‘judge’ as we pick up issues that way. I don’t mean look down on parents/children, but notice so we can support.

Not a teacher anymore but this. It’s not judging, it’s noticing and looking for patterns. Jesus when children are killed by the parents one of the first cries is ‘why didn’t the teachers notice/intervene?’ but when we do it’s all ‘nanny state’ 🙄

Not a teacher but a friend of my mum's said she judged on names. So Chardonnay was going to have to work harder to make a good impression than Sophie or Olivia were.

I’d not judge the child but some names give you the heads up the parents will be interesting/original/quirky etc

I’d not judge the child but some names give you the heads up the parents will be interesting/original/quirky etc

I think this is the sort of thing I meant in my OP!

I definitely judged before I had my own children. Now I understand a bit more. My three year old has crazy curls. They get tied up before we leave the house and by the time we are at school they have all been pulled out. My children get a clean shirt each day but have usually spilt their breakfast or wiped toothpaste on it by the time we leave. Sometimes I do reading and homework with them - sometimes I ask my eldest to listen to a younger one read, sometimes they read to me in the car on the way to school and sometimes it doesn't happen for a fortnight. I don't consider myself a bad parent.

@BlingLoving

I judged the full time foster carer who wouldn’t make 5 mins every evening to ensure the lovely, bright but disorganised due SEN year 7 student packed the correct things in his bag.

DS and I are ALREADY talking about this. He has executive function difficulties and he'll be in year 7 next year and I've told him we'll have to make a real effort with ensuring he has the right school books for the day and then for each period etc.

For me, I spend so much time helping him with this sort of thing that sometimes the other things fall by the wayside, which frustrates me (homework, reading etc). eg I try with homework, but just getting him to sit down, with his notebook and pencil, computer loaded up to get the relevant homework etc, can take FOREVER. And that's before we even start. Bearing in mind I'm working full time and that DH works evenings so I'm usually alone in the evenings trying to feed kids, oversee homework, get younger DD to bed etc and often still finishing off work or taking calls/messages from clients in different time zones (run my own business)

On plus side, I think his teacher understands and we have a regular dialogue about what we're doing/not doing at home and what we're prioritising. But I do worry that she thinks I'm not doing enough (although, she was sympathetic when I was basically in tears on one occasion. As a result of that conversation though I do worry that she might think me and DH don' have a good relationship or that I expect too much or that he's a lazy dick. None of which is true!)

Talk tot eh school and if they will let you put bright coloured tape on his books.

So Monday - yellow
Tuesday - Blue etc

So if a book has a yellow and a blue strip you both know it is needed for Monday and Tuesday.

@UsernameInTheTown

I judge my daughter's teacher, she's an utterly vile human being.

Interesting. In what way, if you don't mind me asking?

Curls are such an odd thing to make an assumption about though. I don't know why you'd think a child with curly hair which wasn't tied back was from a 'tinkly laugh liberal family' and would be hard work whereas a child with straight hair not tied back wouldn't be.

My son has long curly hair and it's just pretty wild. I imagine that the teachers at his current school would think he was neglected rather than having a precious mother. He's a teenage shower dodger now and I have to constantly nag him to actually comb and wash his hair. The only time he will willingly tie it back is when he's at army cadets because there are consequences if it's not tied up. They're pretty stern. The idea that anybody would think we were tinkly laugh liberals is quite funny. Not sure you get many of those around here.

On the other hand, I suspect that for most teachers, seeing which homes have lots of books and which don't gives them useful information. Where they can see that there are no books at home, they know that what they send home is crucial, and they may also need to be alert to the possibility that there is nobody at home with enought confidence to hear the child read. (They should be careful about making too many assumptions from the living room, though - we have thousands of books but hardly any in the living room.)

Teachers will always joke about the patterns (I remember a colleague saying that Hayleys are always set 3), and yes, everyone needs to beware unconscious bias - but actually the first step is to recognise the assumptions that you tend to make.

On a liaison visit with a feeder school, a year 6 teacher told me that one child (from a rough family) "thinks you have to be posh to be clever". Interestingly, he had done better in his SATs than his teacher assessed level, and the child of our chair of governors had done worse in the SATs and better on the teacher assessment...

Everybody judges to a degree. Some much less than others but it’s human nature.

@BlingLoving

Interesting. I guess it's different types of judgement, even in my OP, and in the answers... eg manners telling you something about a family where a judgement is just broadly negative vs dirty clothes telling you something else that is not so much judgement as figuring out how to support.

Like I said, I tend to immediately make assumptions about families where the children have copious long curls, never tied back. I just know they're going to be all tinkly laughs and "oh so liberal" while their kids are probably hooligans! . x 100 if it's the boys who have these curls. So far I've been right every time but I look forward to being wrong at some point.

Wow. How about a child with sensory needs who struggles to stand having their hair cut and can't stand anything tying it back? I hope none of my DCs teachers are judging like this. I spend countless hours trying to help him cope with basic things, Im certainly not liberal and my DS isn't a hooligan, never once has any tesvers had issues with his behaviour. All humans judge, but that isn't the same thing as being judgemental.

Talk tot eh school and if they will let you put bright coloured tape on his books.

Another interesting suggestion, thank you. He's more concerned about popping to his locker between classes. But the higher year groups don't have lockers so I assume they give Year 7s lockers because they're smaller and might not want to carry as much. As he's tall, fit and strong, that's less of an issue. But yes, colour coding overall probably will be a helpful tip. Thank you.

He's good these days about looking for and putting out whatever he needs to wear the next day because he hated the stress when he couldn't find a PE shirt or whatever. And he does this independently with no input from us. So hopefully we can apply the same process for school equipment and books - it might just take a little time to get a routine in place.