Teachers- be honest please - do you judge or make assumptions?

[BlingLoving]

And if so, how often are you right?

eg when the kid turns up on day one with crazy curls, no hair tie (especially boys) do you immediately think, like I do, "oh no, this family is going to be a bit precious."

Or if the kid's clothes are consistently stained etc, do you chalk that up to parents having limited cash and taking view that school uniform is to be worn (my approach) or do you think they're just careless?

What about the ones who struggle to spend the time doing homework with their DC? Do you think they're just bad parents or are you sympathetic?

Interesting post. I do feel judging a child on their hairstyle is really harsh though, it's not like they get a choice.

@Bewilderbeest

Things I judge parents on: Neglect (emotional or physical) How the parents treat others How their kids treat others Undermining attempts to set boundaries or consequences Undermining their kids’ interests and enthusiasm Making excuses

Things I don’t judge parents for:
Finding it hard sometimes
Hairstyles
Poverty
Names
Parents’ lack of opportunities or education

Basically, if your kid is obnoxious then I judge you. Otherwise not at all and definitely not for hairstyles.

You sound like a great teacher. There’s really not much else to it than this.

Perpetuted stereotypes will always end up at someone’s expense no matter how “innocent” your intentions.

@Maray1967

What about parents judging other parents?!! I’ll admit to doing this. I had the chance once or twice to be a parent helper on a trip. I saw what some parents had sent their DC with for lunch. The school letter made it clear what was and wasn’t allowed so I most definitely judged the parent(s) who sent a 7 year old with a 500 ml bottle of coke and several chocolate bars which then caused problems for the teachers as other kids started complaining that their parents wouldn’t let them have that and the child concerned started laughing. The lead teacher confiscated what hadn’t been eaten already. And I also judged the parents of a child who said her friend was probably off school because she fancied a day off. Clearly that to her was normal.

There’s really no point judging the child or their parents for stuff like this. I’d just feel bad that the child is eating such a poor diet. As for other kids saying but we don’t have that - that’s the teacher’s place to intervene and say ‘well you have xyz, look at your own lunch instead of worrying about it Jamie’s lunch.’

As for a child who says ‘yes Amelia is off today, she just stays off whenever she fancies a day off’ that’s just hearsay. Kids will say that type of stuff. Perhaps the child has a long term illness or sen but whatever it is the reasons wouldn’t be shared with the class.

Maybe teachers are judging the wrong things! How many teachers have failed to miss clear signs of abuse and neglect?
This thread has made me think less of teachers to be honest!

I probably wouldn't notice unless it was constant tbh.
If I saw a child looking unkempt, I would probably think it was just normal life -parents in a rush etc.
If a child looked constantly grubby, dirty clothes smelly etc. Yes I would probably raise it with SMT just to check that everything was ok at home.

But even still, so what? These kids bring a different experience to a classroom, it should be encouraged. I can’t think of anything worse than teaching a room of identikit, obediently neat robots. It’s creepy.

To a point I’d agree. The trouble is the anti-school kids with anti-school parents are disruptive and time is already tight to fit in the entire syllabus and all the life learning. It’s not ‘interesting’ to the other students in the class to watch the teacher wasting time trying to keep the lesson on track while Surf Dude (and equivalents) does their best to constantly derail because it’s funny- hurr hurr- and if they get a detention Mom will refuse to allow it anyway.

Oh dear! I am now wondering what DC's class teacher might think of him (and us!)!

Bottom line you have judgemnet as in noticing and you have being judgemental.

I would hope that teachers are not judgemental but I think they often are, sometimes wo even realising (very strong subconcious biais).
I also think that often teachers are being judgemental but coating it as judging/noticing for the sake of the child so they can be protected.

There has been many studies to show that stuff gets reported more when the child isn't white for example (see also the PREVENT program)

@UsernameInTheTown

I judge my daughter's teacher, she's an utterly vile human being.

And I'm sure she has opinions too about parents.

It depends. I judge parents who are immaculate, with lovely clothes, nails done etc and their children have a scruffy school bag, thin coat when it’s cold etc.

I judge parents who say they haven’t got time to do work with their child but then take them out for fancy days out and holidays. It doesn’t take long to read for 5 minutes a night.

@Lady089

Maybe teachers are judging the wrong things! How many teachers have failed to miss clear signs of abuse and neglect? This thread has made me think less of teachers to be honest!

There is a limit to what teachers can do. If a child shows signs of any type of neglect/injury - it is reported to SMT. We have all done child protection training. We are told never to make judgments and just report. Parents can be incredibly defensive though and it can make it difficult to approach the situation. Social work very often mis manage situations.

@Bewilderbeest

Things I judge parents on: Neglect (emotional or physical) How the parents treat others How their kids treat others Undermining attempts to set boundaries or consequences Undermining their kids’ interests and enthusiasm Making excuses

Things I don’t judge parents for:
Finding it hard sometimes
Hairstyles
Poverty
Names
Parents’ lack of opportunities or education

Basically, if your kid is obnoxious then I judge you. Otherwise not at all and definitely not for hairstyles.

Your reasons are the sort of reasons that teachers would have given for me to be a pain in the a**e when i pushed for answers for my dc. You know the dc that was always quite, never heard and really was never an issue in class. But was also left struggling with some issues that were put down to 'oh he is a boy/some children are just like this, it will come' or even better 'it's your fault for not being british'.

I am sure they all felt I was undermining them and being very obnoxious.

some kid with surfer style curls who thinks he's better than everyone else

What?!? What is this nastiness projected at a child?! Honestly wtf

@sashh you genius

"Talk tot eh school and if they will let you put bright coloured tape on his books.

So Monday - yellow
Tuesday - Blue etc

So if a book has a yellow and a blue strip you both know it is needed for Monday and Tuesday"

This is a great idea.

copious long curls, never tied back. I just know they're going to be all tinkly laughs and "oh so liberal" while their kids are probably hooligans!

Have you ever tried to tie curly hair back?

I had thick curly hair as a child. Shy, low self-esteem, academic, well-behaved.

DD has wild hair that looks like she's been dragged through a hedge backwards within 5 minutes of me doing it in the mornings: shy, well-behaved, quiet.

Thankfully you're not her teacher

@Longcovid21 have you tried turning them inside out, I find I can't stand the feeling of the seams or those with the slightly towelling foot bed don't usually have seams. My eldest was a bit sensitive to clothing then I realised I'd always had to cut the polyester tags out of new clothes and only liked the feel of natural fibres but I'm over 60 and even when he was little in the 80s90s there wasn't much about sensory needs. Anyway it will soon be summer so long as he's comfortable👍

@SockFluffInTheBath

But even still, so what? These kids bring a different experience to a classroom, it should be encouraged. I can’t think of anything worse than teaching a room of identikit, obediently neat robots. It’s creepy.

To a point I’d agree. The trouble is the anti-school kids with anti-school parents are disruptive and time is already tight to fit in the entire syllabus and all the life learning. It’s not ‘interesting’ to the other students in the class to watch the teacher wasting time trying to keep the lesson on track while Surf Dude (and equivalents) does their best to constantly derail because it’s funny- hurr hurr- and if they get a detention Mom will refuse to allow it anyway.

I think it’s just different mindsets though. I’d also refuse to allow a school to give my kids detentions and I’d argue that it’s our job to keep kids engaged in lessons. I’m not saying it’s not a complete pain in the arse to keep them on task, more that we should check our priorities. Does giving a detention change the behaviour? No. So work with it. Also, it’s not fair to say it’s the surf kids who seek attention in lessons, everyone has their moments. Long hair is not a symptom of this.

@JudgeJ, tbf some teachers ARE awful.

My dcs have had a couple, one of them in particular was really bad.
The type that told me that if my dc was struggling in english (in reception) it was my fault because I was talking my own language at home Never mind they had a dad that was speaking english. And even so....
The one who told me that same dc was just lazy when actually he was struggling to understand what was going on (following year teacher picked up on that in less than a week. It was that obvious).
And still the same one who told me it wasnt ok for me to take notes during a meeting with her and the HT 'because you are not going to take note of the exact words I am using are you?!?'

That teacher didn't last long but she did a hell of a lot of harm to the children she taught. (And that's wo going into the xenophobia/prejudice she brought to the classroom)

Ah, cross post OP. I see you're referring to a different style of curly hair. I still think you sound unpleasant.

@BlingLoving

I reiterate, I have no comments to make on messy hair as that really would be a case of the pot calling the kettle black! Messy, difficult to manage hair is not the same as some kid with surfer style curls who thinks he's better than everyone else.

But then, DH watches a fair bit of rugby and I spend a lot of time exclaiming, "but how can he SEE the ball with all that hair in his face!?"

I think you should invert the statement.....the hair doesn't cause the kid to think he's better than everyone else.....better to say (and think) "some kid who has been taught to think he is better than everyone else and therefore thinks it ok to ignore hair rules at school"

I don't understand the hair thing op. Crazy curly hair is an issue and indicates a problem family? My daughter had crazy curly hair that responded badly to standard hair brushing. Sometimes she wore it tied back and sometimes she didn't. This is a problem?

We are a white family, by the way, just in case the crazy, curly hair is code for something.

There seems to be a lot of feelings around curly hair. I'm not sure that having long curly hair means that you would be badly behaved, however as a parent I do wonder whether the kids who's hair clearly hasn't seen a brush in a while are more likely to be carrying around a nit-hotel.

I think it’s part of a pattern though. It’s normally in uniform rules that hair over a certain length should be tied back - this is firstly for health and safety in gym lessons/playground and home economics/cookery. Secondly it allows the child to concentrate without hair all in their face.

@Longcovid21

Just wondering what teachers might think of a six year old boy with no socks? I have a battle with ds everyday when we try on 3 different pairs of socks and he pulls them off screaming. In the end I let him go in with no socks otherwise we would not get there on time. But what would a teacher make of a sockless child?

Is it the seams? Sensory issues? They sell seamless socks (M&S have an adaptive clothing range)

www.marksandspencer.com/3-pairs-of-ultimate-comfort-socks/p/clp22253633?color=GREY

Although the hair being curly is irrelevant whether it’s straight or curly long hair should be tied back/secured with a headband so it isn’t all over the place and the child is comfortable and not distracted, not sweaty and uncomfortable in pe etc.