Teachers- be honest please - do you judge or make assumptions?

[BlingLoving]

And if so, how often are you right?

eg when the kid turns up on day one with crazy curls, no hair tie (especially boys) do you immediately think, like I do, "oh no, this family is going to be a bit precious."

Or if the kid's clothes are consistently stained etc, do you chalk that up to parents having limited cash and taking view that school uniform is to be worn (my approach) or do you think they're just careless?

What about the ones who struggle to spend the time doing homework with their DC? Do you think they're just bad parents or are you sympathetic?

I shall also make sure I won't go above and beyond in any way in future. If your child needs a special resource made or a bit of extra time explaining something, or some TLC because they feel sad that day, I won't have a chat with them. Wouldn't want to be a martyr.

I knew a student called Philistine. I always thought that was a rather bad choice. I'm not sure why the parents chose it.

The thing about names though - there is a correlation between names and success on testing and career and such. It's because names are correlated to class and class as a child correlates to school outcomes and their consequences.

So while it would be wrong to assume any individual child will or won't do well based on name, it is possible to make better guesses than chance for groups of kids.

[quote Myboypink]@sweetbellyhigh

My favourite names have been
Markus-Jon
Betty-Blue
Beyoncé
Armarni
Aleeeyesha
Riley
Rileee
Rhileye

Jayden / Tyler and Bailey ! - also always makes me shudder .

Hahaha!

I won’t do anymore or I could
Out myself ! Hahahaha[/quote]
Once again on that list are names of some of the kids I bonded the most with. Really lovely kids, even if their behaviour wasn't always, but always think of them with fondness and a smile.

@MangyInseam

I knew a student called Philistine. I always thought that was a rather bad choice. I'm not sure why the parents chose it.

The thing about names though - there is a correlation between names and success on testing and career and such. It's because names are correlated to class and class as a child correlates to school outcomes and their consequences.

So while it would be wrong to assume any individual child will or won't do well based on name, it is possible to make better guesses than chance for groups of kids.

How much of that is because they’re then treated differently by their teachers though? Unconscious bias has a lot to answer for.

@CasZekey sweet f all as I don't make judgements based on names. I might try to engage you in conversation though as a fellow Supernatural fan.

@ldontWanna

That wasn't my list, you have tagged the wrong poster

My DS started school with a positive mane of flowing blond curls past his shoulders (never tied back). I've very definitely never been accused of being liberal though - a little bit right wing on some topics if truth be told! I'm a strict parent who expects my kids to behave and toe my line at all times. I'd definitely prove you wrong OP! DS had long luscious hair because it was just too pretty to cut. DH and peer pressure eventually led to the chop and it's been bitterly regretted since. I still get random semi-strangers coming up to me and asking why we cut his beautiful hair (it's been 2 years).

Oh yes they judge! I was judged as a single parent who obviously couldn't cope because my child was having frequent meltdowns, aggressive behaviour, refusing to wear anything but the same clothes everyday. All the while i begged them to have my son assessed for SEN but was told no, its my parenting etc. Even went to the extreme of calling social services on me, saying i was an unfit parent ( social worker visited us at home and decided there was no reason for them to be involved and actually bollocked the headteacher of ds school for wasting her time) school eventually expelled ds age 9, he was in his new school only a few weeks and they started process for EHCP and referred to camhs. Ds was diagnosed with ASD, ADHD, ODD and SPD as well as bilateral deafness by the time he was 10! I kept saying to his previous headteacher i think he has problems hearing but was told no he chooses when he will listen. So yes they definitely do judge and sometimes very wrongly.

[quote sweetbellyhigh]@ldontWanna

That wasn't my list, you have tagged the wrong poster[/quote]
I know. I quoted a poster who tagged you in their reply to you , hence you getting a notification I presume.

I work in school. I find it awful that you judge based on loose curly hair. What a bloody cheek! I have loose curly hair. This judgement is why so many curly hair people straighten for years and years - the assumption that it equals a certain persona and as adults, that it isn't professional enough. Yes you're talking about children but this is where it starts.

Re my own judgements, yes I consider children's wellbeing all. the. time. Consistently dirty (not just now and again - kids get dirty), smelly, attitude, behaviour etc is always at least mentally noted. It is our job to look out for children.

But your hair judgement, you can stick that where the sun don't shine.

@Cait33

My DS started school with a positive mane of flowing blond curls past his shoulders (never tied back). I've very definitely never been accused of being liberal though - a little bit right wing on some topics if truth be told! I'm a strict parent who expects my kids to behave and toe my line at all times. I'd definitely prove you wrong OP! DS had long luscious hair because it was just too pretty to cut. DH and peer pressure eventually led to the chop and it's been bitterly regretted since. I still get random semi-strangers coming up to me and asking why we cut his beautiful hair (it's been 2 years).

This seems to be really common amongst these boy mums too. Oh his beautiful luscious curls are simply too delicious to cut or tie back.

I never ever see girls with their hair left lying all around and mums saying ‘oh her gorgeous curls are just toooooo pretty to tie up.’

I think it just looks messy.

But then all mine have always had short hair and now dd is 10 and has grown hers long she knows she needs to tie it for school so it’s neat and presentable. She does have gorgeous curls but no reason for them to be hanging all about her face/whipping round in PE etc. They’re just as gorgeous in a neat ponytail so she can concentrate and run round without her hair hanging in her face.

How much of that is because they’re then treated differently by their teachers though? Unconscious bias has a lot to answer for.

That's a theory but not actually one with a lot of evidence.

But as far as why kids who come from families that are struggling might not do as well, I can think of quite a few reasons that are pretty clearly going have significant effects on their ability to do well in school and life generally. Lack of help in school. Lack of the best medical care. Not as many interesting experiences - not travel, lessons, sports. Unstable home life. Addiction problems. Sometimes cultural issues that see doing well as something to look down on. Violence in the neighbourhood.

@MangyInseam

How much of that is because they’re then treated differently by their teachers though? Unconscious bias has a lot to answer for.

That's a theory but not actually one with a lot of evidence.

But as far as why kids who come from families that are struggling might not do as well, I can think of quite a few reasons that are pretty clearly going have significant effects on their ability to do well in school and life generally. Lack of help in school. Lack of the best medical care. Not as many interesting experiences - not travel, lessons, sports. Unstable home life. Addiction problems. Sometimes cultural issues that see doing well as something to look down on. Violence in the neighbourhood.

Actually, there’s quite a lot of evidence. Here’s some:

scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?q=teacher+bias+and+attainment+gap&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart#d=gs_qabs&u=%23p%3D42JDeRbjnQMJ

scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?q=teacher+bias+and+attainment+gap&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart#d=gs_qabs&u=%23p%3DVkKUYnFkcJgJ

scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?q=teacher+bias+and+attainment+gap&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart#d=gs_qabs&u=%23p%3DW1FpOm0nDmEJ

@MangyInseam

How much of that is because they’re then treated differently by their teachers though? Unconscious bias has a lot to answer for.

That's a theory but not actually one with a lot of evidence.

But as far as why kids who come from families that are struggling might not do as well, I can think of quite a few reasons that are pretty clearly going have significant effects on their ability to do well in school and life generally. Lack of help in school. Lack of the best medical care. Not as many interesting experiences - not travel, lessons, sports. Unstable home life. Addiction problems. Sometimes cultural issues that see doing well as something to look down on. Violence in the neighbourhood.

If all those reasons are true then that makes a teacher snickering about how a child named Ellie won’t get GCSEs even more despicable.

@BlingLoving

I don't know about your son's SEN but something I've done with some students who struggle to organise or are always looking for things (and are often dyslexic) is a 'desk map' basically a piece of paper with boxes that are marked with 'pencil case', 'calculator', 'exercise book' so things are kept in the same place.

Depending on the child it can be a scale 'map' or an actual A3 sheet that goes on the desk first.

@MangyInseam

How much of that is because they’re then treated differently by their teachers though? Unconscious bias has a lot to answer for.

That's a theory but not actually one with a lot of evidence.

But as far as why kids who come from families that are struggling might not do as well, I can think of quite a few reasons that are pretty clearly going have significant effects on their ability to do well in school and life generally. Lack of help in school. Lack of the best medical care. Not as many interesting experiences - not travel, lessons, sports. Unstable home life. Addiction problems. Sometimes cultural issues that see doing well as something to look down on. Violence in the neighbourhood.

That does not negate teacher bias also being a factor.

@Pumperthepumper

By far and away the best thing would be to ask kids to come to school in unbranded joggers, T-shirts and hoodies. Comfortable, can be worn at weekends, washes easily, warm.

Agree with this, I'd even say secondary school kids too. Not many professions require people to be suited and booted every day, even more so now with many working from home. A good proportion of kids in this country will go onto work in a trade or manufacturing. Why do they have to wear uncomfortable shirts, blazers and ties every day and be reprimanded for wearing trainers (aka comfy shoes). Completely outdated.

@Pumperthepumper

Oh god, more xenophobia with the name shit. Im embarrassed for you.

I don't think it's xenophobia, these threads are normally sagging off wc bits, not people from other countries

@MangyInseam

I knew a student called Philistine. I always thought that was a rather bad choice. I'm not sure why the parents chose it.

The thing about names though - there is a correlation between names and success on testing and career and such. It's because names are correlated to class and class as a child correlates to school outcomes and their consequences.

So while it would be wrong to assume any individual child will or won't do well based on name, it is possible to make better guesses than chance for groups of kids.

But then in a class like our school, where we're all working class, how does that work other than assuming they'll all fail because they're all wc? How do you seperate out the Nancy and the Elizabeth from the Romallo and the Xavier when they're all the same class?

But then in a class like our school, where we're all working class, how does that work other than assuming they'll all fail because they're all wc? How do you seperate out the Nancy and the Elizabeth from the Romallo and the Xavier when they're all the same class?

They're all doomed ,doomed I tell you.

@UsernameInTheTown

I judge my daughter's teacher, she's an utterly vile human being.

I was waiting for a comment like this. Da has a TA who seems to enjoy making him cry! Never gets noticed because she's left incharge of the entire class while the actual teacher leaves the room for most of the day. Da is 8yrs old and stopped smiling going into school after the first week of yr 3. He also struggles with SEN Rare life threatening illnesses. Spends his break and lunch times lonely. My heart is broken. When asked to help him buddy up..the school put him with bullies. I just want him to smile again..

School have now been given two weeks to sort out thoes issues as well as a few others. Before I report them.

I feel like screaming at her myself " hay Mrs COCKWOMBBLE you do realise the ear defenders my son are wearing are because he can not handle loud noises? So you might want to stop screaming at him every chance you get" (only when others aren't around)
Power mad bitch! .
Yep parents judge teacher too 😁

Apologies rant over..today was the last straw then I seen this thread. 🤦

Ds not da sorry

@ldontWanna

But then in a class like our school, where we're all working class, how does that work other than assuming they'll all fail because they're all wc? How do you seperate out the Nancy and the Elizabeth from the Romallo and the Xavier when they're all the same class?

They're all doomed ,doomed I tell you.

But surely no Nancy could possibly be doomed???

I also wonder how this works for kids with none English names. I mean if an English name is unusual it's considered gutter name, kid will be kicked out of school by 4 but with a name like say Aradhya does she get a free pass to success because we can't judge it in the same way?

What kind of dick judges someone for having curly hair?