To wonder how many couples stay together for the kids?

[Pointles]

Just that really. There must be loads or is this crazy? My parents did and I'm heading down the same route.

Anyone else?

(This thread isn't svout whether it's good for the kids or not. If anyone is interested a lot of research seems to show that unless the relationship is abusive or toxic it unfortunately is better for the kids if the parents stay together though that depends of course on the individual situation.)

@Ohquietone

I’ve stayed in part for the large reason of us having kids. I’m not sure if we’d be together now otherwise. We don’t hate each other, we don’t argue. We get on okay but there’s less affection than I think either of us would ideally like but our situation is slightly different as we have one neurotypical child and our other two children have special needs. Both very complex and they attend specialist schools and it’s likely they will live with us forever or will need a residential placement. I think our middle child mentally wouldn’t be able to handle a split.

Our lives are complicated and difficult. I don’t know how my husband feels, whether he feels we’re stuck together because of the kids but I suppose for me, I’m settling now because I think our set up is the best one for our children. It’s not easy. I care about my husband but yes part of it is the lifestyle, not so much for me but for my kids. My husband and I parent differently and I think apart his parenting especially with the two with Sen wouldn’t work as well. We function best as a team.

I understand why people leave. A lot of couples with children with Sen don’t go the distance because of the pressure. It’s not perfect, but it’s okay enough for us.

I think this is very common

@Elieza

Is it ever possible to ‘stay for the kids’ and still have a gf or bf that you only meet away from home?

And the older children know about it and are ok with it as they’ve seen one parent shout at the other a lot and now things are better at home with no shouting etc as that parent feels happier now to have a gf or bf.

Could that ever work?

That is so awful and unfair on the children. If you want another relationship, leave. If you are "staying for the children" you don't have another relationship on the side, selfish behaviour. How is that any better than just getting a divorce?

@venusandmars

What I find difficult about the phrase 'staying together for the kids' is that it has undertones of that situation being somehow good (for the kids) and selfless. And by contrast, that splitting up is somehow bad (for the kids) and selfish.

I totally agree. I hate this language and its time it was consigned to history.

"Staying for the children" has always offended me, as a single mother who has (if I say so myself) done a pretty bloody good job of raising a child alone without any support and without fucking her up by arguing constantly with her dad etc. I've done a million times better at parenting alone than I would have done if I'd stayed.

"Staying for the children" assumes that as a default position staying is always the selfless, public spirited choice and leaving is the actions of a selfish hedonist. When in fact, as this thread shows, there are many reasons people stay which are decidedly grey if not to say self-interested. And let's call a spade a spade, an awful lot of people stay because its financially more comfortable.

Yes of course people make pragmatic decisions not to tear their children's lives apart and which are totally understandable and fair. But staying can also be a naked act of self-interest, or apathy and inertia. Just as much as leaving can be a selfish or selfless act, depending on how its done.

Let's at least acknowledge in the way we speak about this that staying isn't always the default best choice for the children.

@LetHimHaveIt

I understand. I do think those kids who’s mothers really hated having them will feel it in some way or another.

I hope you find more than just fleeting moments of happiness in the future.

@Elieza

Is it ever possible to ‘stay for the kids’ and still have a gf or bf that you only meet away from home?

And the older children know about it and are ok with it as they’ve seen one parent shout at the other a lot and now things are better at home with no shouting etc as that parent feels happier now to have a gf or bf.

Could that ever work?

Is it ever possible to ‘stay for the kids’ and still have a gf or bf that you only meet away from home?

Yes - this could work if it was a mutally-agreed open relationship/polyamorous set up. You'd need to be able to have respectful communication with your spouse, it would take a lot of work and it definitely wouldn't suit everyone, but it is theoretically possible.

And the older children know about it and are ok with it as they’ve seen one parent shout at the other a lot and now things are better at home with no shouting etc as that parent feels happier now to have a gf or bf.

Err, no, this last bit is really unhealthy. If one parent is shouting at the other, that sounds abusive, and the solution isn't to let the abusive partner cheat in order to "feel happier" and hence stop abusing their spouse.

For what it’s worth @LetHimHaveIt I think you’ve posted very eloquently and honestly about something that I suspect is actually more common than many like to think. I’m fortunate that I’m happy in my marriage but I think if we did just grow apart, then barring abuse, infidelity, addiction, I would probably make the same decision.

Some pps have been a bit sneery with comments about they say it’s for the dc but it’s really for the lifestyle but is that so wrong? “Lifestyle” to me is our comfortable, warm home where the dc have their own rooms, are able to attend good schools, where because there are two incomes going into just one house there is enough money to pay for (I hate the term but) enriching experiences. There is lots of evidence that it’s women and children who suffer financially when marriages breakdown so I wouldn’t criticise anybody who factors in theirs and the dcs lifestyle when considering whether to separate.

@WhatsMyNameGonnaBeNow

It usually is women because they’ve allowed their partners to become the main earner. We need to teach our daughters to be financially savvy so that they’re not trapped.

I appreciate your version of the lifestyle but other peoples versions are a lot more luxurious than what you’ve just described.

Divorcing for them means coming back down to Earth with a huge bump financially. I knew one lady who couldn’t bare the thought of a divorce because she would lose her luxurious cars. Miserable as sin mind.

@NoSquirrels post totally hits it on the head for me. I’m a single parent (not my choice, walked out overnight when my youngest was barely walking) and the thing that grates me is the complete refusal to even try to work at it. Unsurprisingly turned out was a OW involved but can categorically say my kids have been severely impacted by how difficult it’s been bringing them up alone in many senses - not least the logistical challenges of one pair of hands when they need to do different things

I dont think OH and I would still be together is we didn't have kids.

We have even talked about it.
But we get on well enough, no abuse, no fighting, both totally commmited to our children.
So for that reason we made it work, because we both wanted it to work.
Our chidren are adults now, but we are comfortable as a couple and woudn't want to separate. We have a good life, a nice home, both have outside interests, and we can still share a bottle of wine and laugh.
Works for us.

I don’t doubt you @Eyedropeyeflop but I suspect the I just couldn’t give up the car dahhlings are a minority since far more people are somewhere in the “just about managing” to “comfortable enough but wouldn’t stretch to two households” brackets.

Yes we do need to encourage our daughters to be financially savvy but in reality even people on good salaries are still financially intertwined with their partner simply because housing, childcare and so on is expensive.

For a lot of women the change in lifestyle isn’t about losing the nice car or designer clothes, rather it means insecure rental wherever they can afford it, working longer hours to make ends meet/hoping their UC isn’t fucked up this month, all while now doing the bulk of the childcare and having most of the worry and responsibility of parenting. I can definitely see why some would choose to stay in an “only ok” situation rather than do that.

I think a lot of people stay together even when they're not in love, and don't even much like their partner half the time, because it is easier than leaving, and they will be better off financially if they stay. Both people in the couple, get used to a good lifestyle, and as long as there is not abuse, most people will stay.

The couples who I have seen split over the years (who had children under 10,) both struggled financially, and it affected the children, and made it hard for them to form relationships. Plus, if your parents are divorced, you're twice as likely to divorce.

Many people, mostly women, (but some men as well,) stay because they're better off staying married/having the OH's extra income. No-one is better off alone! I have seen women who have split from partners, struggling to make ends meet, and scratting like rats to get in as many hours at work a week as possible, sometimes working 50-55 hours a week, just to make ends meet. Not ALL women get big payouts/alimony/childcare payments from their (ex) partner!

And then when the kids have gone, it's too late to leave, because there's nowhere to go, and it's too late to find anyone else. Although most women who have stayed in a loveless marriage for 25-35 years or so, probably wouldn't be arsed with another relationship anyway!

@speakout

I dont think OH and I would still be together is we didn't have kids.

We have even talked about it.
But we get on well enough, no abuse, no fighting, both totally commmited to our children.
So for that reason we made it work, because we both wanted it to work.
Our chidren are adults now, but we are comfortable as a couple and woudn't want to separate. We have a good life, a nice home, both have outside interests, and we can still share a bottle of wine and laugh.
Works for us.

I think a LOT of couples will relate to this @speakout

I think very few stay for the kids, I think most stay for the lifestyle and not wanting to start again and be single.

for a great many of us, happiness is just - moments. Often fleeting ones. And that's fine.

Absolutely this.

And in this context people make their own choices, their own compromises as they have to do in most, if not all, areas of life.

There are no definitive answers. No simple solutions. You try your best to make the path you chose work. Some will judge that staying is the better option, they may change their minds in the future. Some will leave. Some people's relationships will improve and offer them important companionship for years after the children have grown up.

Nobody is making these decisions without thinking of their DC. Nobody is trying to make things worse for their DC. Sometimes the choices work out better than others. With hindsight, it's easier to say that X and Y should have separated or Mr A shouldn't have left.

Leaving is brave. Staying is brave.

As a few PPs have pointed out, real damage is done when parents stay together, and then one leaves as soon as the kids are over 18. The parents then forget that they are still the children and make them deal with the parent's emotions as if they were fully fledged adults, often during a period of upheaval already.

I think it happens with a lot of couples. My own parents did but there was never a cross word between them, there was still a lot of love there in more of a sibling way and a lot of mutual respect.

I didn't know they'd stayed together for us but I'm glad they did as they are coming up married 50 years now, they still love eachother just in a different way and are great companians.

@Patchbatch

My parents did and I'm heading down the same route.

I think this is also relevant, do you want your children to enter the same cycle? I wouldn't.

My parents lived separately and I had to endure living with another who didn't want me there for a large part of my childhood. Out of the pan into the pot type scenario. I'm not sure the cycle works so simply.

@Ipadflowers

I think very few stay for the kids, I think most stay for the lifestyle and not wanting to start again and be single.

I'm not sure what you mean by lifestyle. The couples I know who are sort of bound together do so because they could only separate if the other found a room in a shared house and then wouldn't be able to have the kids to visit. My friends boyfriend did this and had an arrangement with his flatmate when his kids could visit but it became too complicated to arrange as the other flatmate had kids too. He moved back in with the kids mum, it was simply unaffordable to them. It was a few years ago too before this crazy financial situation people are in with bills now. This isn't really a lifestyle choice to prioritise feeding your kids/paying bills or even an occasional extra curricular activity!

My parents did and I wish my DF had left and taken me with him. As an adult and between men my DM fully expected me to support her like my DF had done.

I've got an ex friend who is doing this now although in part she is doing it because she cannot bear to be without a man.

[quote Eyedropeyeflop]@LetHimHaveIt

I understand. I do think those kids who’s mothers really hated having them will feel it in some way or another.

I hope you find more than just fleeting moments of happiness in the future.[/quote]
Thank you. That's kind. You never know!

I think it's not that uncommon.

I'd also say, there are lots of people who, if they didn't have kids, might not have stayed together, but they are ultimately happy or just satisfied that they did.

[quote Eyedropeyeflop]@WhatsMyNameGonnaBeNow

It usually is women because they’ve allowed their partners to become the main earner. We need to teach our daughters to be financially savvy so that they’re not trapped.

I appreciate your version of the lifestyle but other peoples versions are a lot more luxurious than what you’ve just described.

Divorcing for them means coming back down to Earth with a huge bump financially. I knew one lady who couldn’t bare the thought of a divorce because she would lose her luxurious cars. Miserable as sin mind.[/quote]
Not wanting to lose luxury cars is hardly in the same ballpark as the fact that for most couples there will be trade offs in terms of careers in order to give adequate support to kids.

And lots of families are in neither of those situations and both parents need to work full out to provide a very moderate lifestyle.

@thepeopleversuswork

I think you have to define this more clearly.

I think a lot of people stay in a family setup where they and their significant other no longer are attracted to one another or have much in common but coparent well and are committed to working as a team. To me this is completely understandable, although it wouldn’t be for me). Overall that probably has the potential to be good for the kids because it keeps the family unit together.

That’s very different from a scenario where the two spouses actively dislike one another or where there is one-sided infidelity or abuse in my view staying together in circumstances like these through gritted teeth sets a terrible example to children.

I know you didn’t ask but I think it’s a really critical distinction.

I totally agree. As I said in a later post (I think) research has shown that unless there is abuse or the home environment is toxic it really does seem to be best for the kids if the parents stay together.

I guess the scenario I'm thinking of is similar to colleagues who are working together on a project that they are both highly invested in (ie the children).

However, I wonder about the details. Are you still friends? Do you still do things together? Have you actively decided to just stay together for the kids rather than for the relationship itself? Was it painful taking that step? Do the kids know or do you pretend to be a normal loving couple?

@OnlyFoolsnMothers

I think it makes a lot of sense- I want to be with my children daily, splitting would risk that.

Yes, this is the case for both dh and me.

@LetHimHaveIt

Nope. Sorry. You arent swaying me on this with your theoretical interpretation no matter how wonderfully you try to "articulate" yourself. People forget just how easily influenced and susceptible kids are. They are like sponges and they absorb it all. The good and the bad. You as the adult are the only one until your children turn of legal age to dictate how their lives will pan out. That means being responsible for making the best choices for them.

These women that you refer to that have children and hate motherhood are in the exact same bracket. Of course they try to hide it to the best of their ability and not take it directly out on the child but children do STILL PICK UP ON THIS. The leading and big difference between that situation and yours is the lack of control. They've had the children they cant leave them (all though some do). Where as you can make a change to your situation, you can chose to leave and both you and your children can experience a different outcome.

Using women that get trapped into motherhood isnt a great comparison to anyome in this thread, as that comes with no escape and is just unfortunate for everyone invovled.

Yes life is made up of a mix of happy/sad moments but what your choosing isnt just a moment as you said yourself it is the whole remaining stage of your life. You may be content with that (which you shouldnt be because life is too damn short and is what you make of it) but your children may not appreciate that when they become adults or feel the same as you. This is why alot of people say if not for yourself leave for the children.

The cycle will only break when someone breaks the behaviour. By expsoing them to a half relationship they are more bound to end up in one. Sometimes we need to think longevity and not short term. Im not talking oh but the kids may get stressed during school, exams, work, im talking longer than that as in who will this mould them into being 20/30 years on from here.