To wonder how many couples stay together for the kids?

[Pointles]

Just that really. There must be loads or is this crazy? My parents did and I'm heading down the same route.

Anyone else?

(This thread isn't svout whether it's good for the kids or not. If anyone is interested a lot of research seems to show that unless the relationship is abusive or toxic it unfortunately is better for the kids if the parents stay together though that depends of course on the individual situation.)

@LetHimHaveIt

The lady doth protest too much, methinks

I wouldn't be abandoning a comfortable lifestyle, tbh. I'd be going to 'Penury' from 'Just About Managing' - as would he. So the children would be fucked either way. I appreciate what you're saying, but women can't simply 'take steps' to ensure financial independence - although I am trying to do something about my low income.

Toxic choice . I would never

I’ve stayed in part for the large reason of us having kids. I’m not sure if we’d be together now otherwise. We don’t hate each other, we don’t argue. We get on okay but there’s less affection than I think either of us would ideally like but our situation is slightly different as we have one neurotypical child and our other two children have special needs. Both very complex and they attend specialist schools and it’s likely they will live with us forever or will need a residential placement. I think our middle child mentally wouldn’t be able to handle a split.

Our lives are complicated and difficult. I don’t know how my husband feels, whether he feels we’re stuck together because of the kids but I suppose for me, I’m settling now because I think our set up is the best one for our children. It’s not easy. I care about my husband but yes part of it is the lifestyle, not so much for me but for my kids. My husband and I parent differently and I think apart his parenting especially with the two with Sen wouldn’t work as well. We function best as a team.

I understand why people leave. A lot of couples with children with Sen don’t go the distance because of the pressure. It’s not perfect, but it’s okay enough for us.

@thepeopleversuswork

I think you have to define this more clearly.

I think a lot of people stay in a family setup where they and their significant other no longer are attracted to one another or have much in common but coparent well and are committed to working as a team. To me this is completely understandable, although it wouldn’t be for me). Overall that probably has the potential to be good for the kids because it keeps the family unit together.

That’s very different from a scenario where the two spouses actively dislike one another or where there is one-sided infidelity or abuse in my view staying together in circumstances like these through gritted teeth sets a terrible example to children.

I know you didn’t ask but I think it’s a really critical distinction.

Yes I know several Couples like this although after a point they end up splitting once kids become adults. Recent friends split after 30 years and several kids. Just flat mates.

Yes we did, kids are grown now and happily gone separate ways, it was never bad though, we just drifted

@TheRossatron

I think a lot of people just can't afford to split up to be honest

Yep. I find in the week it's fine as my DH is out at work. But the weekends are tense. But think I would I would have to work full time if we spilt and put my youngest in full time childcare and my Ds in before and after school care. Then no after school activities like swimming as I would be working ( as DH works long hours too) . I can't see this would benefit the kids at the moment. My DH does very little childcare now, but how would we afford 2 of everything we have now. I currently freelance from home.

It's hard, I also wouldn't want Dh looking after the kids as I would worry but maybe it would make him grow up if I wasn't there. Just would make me very sad.

We are. Our relationship is dead and our sex life is even deader, but we get on ok, rarely argue, co parent well enough; I've done 95 % of the childcare over the past 13 years but he helps in ways that I'd struggle if we split up.

If we separated we'd have to move. The kids would definitely suffer. Here they each have their own bedroom, we're 5 minutes from their schools, their grandparents, their friends. We'd have none of that if we moved. Life would be a lot tougher.

We are mostly pretty happy, but I am painfully lonely and long to find a loving relationship, but I doubt I could with three kids and no opportunity to meet anyone, so it's really not worth making all of our lives more difficult.

I've told myself I'll leave when our youngest is 12 if things aren't better. It's been 15 years, what's another 8?

By the way, I'm still good friends with my exh, he gives me substantial maintenance voluntarily- we just drifted apart and I'm happily in another relationship. I'm not actually divorced yet, not got around to doing the paperwork. We still do family gatherings and he gets on with dp.

I think in middle age we want a change that's all

@LetHimHaveIt

Respectfully though I think you are missing the point. It’s not about riding off into the sunset with a gorgeous man. It’s about showing your children that adults have a right to be happy.

I acknowledge there’s a lot of grey areas and plenty of relationships which are “just about” good enough to not break up the family for. And I can’t blame anyone for not wanting to put their kids through that.

But there’s a really important life lesson underneath this about your right to be happy. If the compromise is so great that you are visibly unhappy it signals to them that that is what marriage is about. It’s a bad legacy for your kids.

What I find difficult about the phrase 'staying together for the kids' is that it has undertones of that situation being somehow good (for the kids) and selfless. And by contrast, that splitting up is somehow bad (for the kids) and selfish.

Most people making these decisions are trying to consider everything that plays into the situation - finances, stability, personal emotional health, emotional health of the children.

I think 'staying together for the kids' is a lazy opt out way of describing it (to yourselves or others). There are so many differnet ways of working out - for better or worse - (maybe even for richer or poorer). Just in a few moments of thinking, I've come up with the examples below:

I have a friend who is staying (3 teenage kids) because if they split each of them (Mum and Dad) would have a one bedroom flat and that would be totally impractal. But she is saving and has her plan for when your youngest leaves... She is clear though that she is staying for the financial practicality of the whole family.

I left when dc1 was 9. They now tell me there is not enough researched and documented about the positives of healthily split families.

My best friend and her dh 'stayed together for the kids'. Both had affairs. In the short term it was awful. 10 years later they are the most loving and happy and contented couple, and they and their dc are a tight family unit.

My friend's parent's stayed together for the family in a toxic relationship. It really messed up their kids' perceptions of love and family and realtionship. After the dc left home the parents continued in mutual disharmony. At the age of 80, friends dm suddenly left her husband. "I've only got a few years to live, I don't want it to be like this, I want my last years to be happy." That had fucked the dc up a bit more.

It all comes down to money, for so many people.

My husband is not a bad person. Yet if I leave, or if we split, he will have sweet fuck all. I'll get but okay, DS is disabled and would be with me

But how would my H survive? He wouldn't have a pot to piss in. Things would be a bit harder financially for me too. It just wouldn't be worth it

Not sure what the answer is for us though because my DS will always be severely disabled and need my care

My parents probably fell into this category. Thankfully they didn’t split the minute me and my siblings were adults, there were other factors too. I had no idea their marriage wasn’t happy, it took me a while to adjust to that and my model of what a happy relationship could look like.

But, I’m really grateful they were able to do it. They were both really involved parents and I would have missed out on so much if I’d had to swap between them.

[quote thepeopleversuswork]@LetHimHaveIt

Respectfully though I think you are missing the point. It’s not about riding off into the sunset with a gorgeous man. It’s about showing your children that adults have a right to be happy.

I acknowledge there’s a lot of grey areas and plenty of relationships which are “just about” good enough to not break up the family for. And I can’t blame anyone for not wanting to put their kids through that.

But there’s a really important life lesson underneath this about your right to be happy. If the compromise is so great that you are visibly unhappy it signals to them that that is what marriage is about. It’s a bad legacy for your kids.[/quote]
Respectfully, I'm certain you have.

For a start, the notion of leaving a bad relationship in order to find a better one, was only a part of my post. I'm aware that, while there are many, many MNers who (irresponsibly, IMO) suggest to unhappy women that there are better men out there, there are a (smaller) number who urge such women to get out simply because they'd be happier (and by extension, better mothers) single than with a wrong 'un. The second group is more palatable than the first, for sure.

But all this ignores those of us who don't think they'd be any happier having left, whether that's in order to just be single, or to ride off 'into the sunset with a gorgeous man'. I am in precisely that 'just about good enough' relationship you talk about, whereby I don't really want to be where I am but I don't want anyone else, and I don't want to be any worse off financially. And I'm very definitely not visibly unhappy. So it's fine.

It's worth pointing out, too, that I didn't criticize any of the posters who have left - I just thought they might have extended those of us who haven't, the same courtesy. Instead, they're banging on about staying being 'cowardly', 'weak' and 'toxic', and a bad example for their kids - smug and self-congratulatory.

But then, you often find that with Leavers v. Remainers.

@LetHimHaveIt 'but women can't simply 'take steps' to ensure financial independence'

Yes they can. I know because I did it. I got a useful qualification, changed careers to an area where there is a skills shortage, upped my salary and left my unhappy marriage.

@LetHimHaveIt

I understand you’re feeling attacked because people are giving unsolicited opinions on your situation but there are plenty of posters (like myself) who have left unhappy relationships and haven’t said anything negative about people who choose to stay, so let’s not turn this into “Leavers vs Remaineds” (🤢 ugh brexit talk)

I tend to think everyone is trying to do the best they can for their kids, it’s just not a choice I could make. I don’t have any opinions on those who choose to stay other than I think it’s a pity they’re in a situation they’d rather not be in.

Is it ever possible to ‘stay for the kids’ and still have a gf or bf that you only meet away from home?

And the older children know about it and are ok with it as they’ve seen one parent shout at the other a lot and now things are better at home with no shouting etc as that parent feels happier now to have a gf or bf.

Could that ever work?

Remainers*
My phone has a mind of its own.

Yes I think we are. We have been together since we were 19 (mid-40s now) when we met at Uni. Had DD early 30s and naturally we have both changed as people. We admit that we still love each but aren't in love with each but still have similar values for bringing up our DD. I haven't admitted this to him but he earns 3 x as much as I do so I also don't want to give up our joint lifestyle.
Not sure what will happen when DD moves to uni/out of the home although this won't be for another 8 years or so.
We low level squabble but nothing too horrendous although it does make me sad that there isn't the affection there any more. Part of me thinks though that is natural/normal for a 25yr + relationship?

@LetHimHaveIt

Please read my reply. Im a child who's parsnts thougnt I would know no better them being together loveless and that it wouldn't impact me.

And as a pps said to you, children are maybe not smarter but alot more in tune then people give them credit for.

For example I know a child that has someone in their life that doesnt like them and is vindictive to them. This child is 10. Now does this child understand why this adult is being horrible towards them? No. But do they know and are aware that there is a massive dislike there. Yes. Despite how well this "adult" thinks they are acting.

Children pick up on things. They just dont have the comprehension to pin point exactly what is it or why. Doesnt mean it doesnt effect them all the same.

I think you are massively underestimating your children here. You may think your acting is so superb that they are completely fooled and oblivious. Then roll on another 10 yrs and they are in counselling suddenly having an epiphany as to why they are struggling in relationships or in life. Oh its because mummy seemed abit off that day. Or abit strained that day. She smiled at me but when she turned away she looked upset. When i got my friends house and seeing their mummy and daddy being loving and kissing and holding hands I noticed the difference when I came home.

No one should have to "act" in their own home and your defensive tone in your replies seems to suggest you arent all as happy as you seem to be. As i said please read my repsonse and personal experience and then really ask yourself if you think your children are coming out completely unharmed in this or if thats what you are telling yourself to justify staying.

[quote dotdotdotdash]@LetHimHaveIt 'but women can't simply 'take steps' to ensure financial independence'

Yes they can. I know because I did it. I got a useful qualification, changed careers to an area where there is a skills shortage, upped my salary and left my unhappy marriage.[/quote]
Ok - I actually omitted to put 'some' women, but actually, again it's the age-old nonsense that everybody can do something just because some people can.

I have two degrees. I'm very sure of my worth, intellectual and otherwise. I'm certain I'm at least as clever as a lot of women earning five, ten times more than me. But I've got three kids and I'm not getting any younger. So - I'm trying to improve my lot .
. . but then, so are a lot of people. We'll see what happens.

I've told myself I'll leave when our youngest is 12 if things aren't better. It's been 15 years, what's another 8?

This is so sad.

My DM stayed because of financial reasons. She finally left when I was at uni and my Dsis was in her teens. And I wish she'd left him years earlier as I think their marriage had a very negative impact on me.

I know someone that is separated from the mother of his children but it was her choice. He said the relationship was horrible but he'd have stayed with her until the youngest graduated because he didn't want to be separated from his kids (or pay an absorbent amount of child support)

I actually know many couples that are together for the "kids" or because they know they couldn't afford to raise the kids alone.

Despite everyone's best efforts:-

I'm not 'extremely angry'.

I'm not 'feeling attacked'.

I'm not being 'defensive' (I'm simply 'responding' or 'replying' as I believe it's also known 🙄 'Defensive' is inevitably used as a pejorative - but the practice of defending oneself from attack is fairly time-honoured, so if you think I'm defending myself, you must also think I'm being attacked. Bad form.

Unsettling that people can't accept that, for a great many of us, happiness is just - moments. Often fleeting ones. And that's fine. Fuck me - there's a whole thread full of women who wish they hadn't had kids; who hate the drudgery and monotony. And the solidarity is arresting - people falling over themselves to agree and some, to even say that it doesn't get better. I happen not to feel that way. But it's curious that that's apparently fine, and not the least bit damaging for kids who are 'attuned to everything', while an admission that you don't much like your own life, but have adjudged it to be, on balance, best for your kids, is going to see them in lifelong therapy and unable to form healthy relationships.

I haven't suffered for 20, 30 years. My relationship was good until it wasn't. I'm prepared to take those good years, plus the lives of my wonderful children, as the trade-off for a less happy second half of the game.