To he appalled at this experience today

[User199999]

Hi.

I understand this sounds quite unbelievable but it is a genuine experience from today.

Myself, my mum and my DD went to a local charity shop which we have visited many times. My DD sometimes can have tantrums whilst out in shops, just normal toddler tantrums. Whilst in there my DD got a bit upset and kicked off a bit and was crying/throwing herself around. I knelt down and tried to calm her down. Next minute the shop keeper came storming over and tapped her a few times on the shoulder from behind saying ‘I think someone’s in a bad mood arnt they’ and got right in her face. I was in shock. She then pointed her finger right in DDs face like she was telling her off. I walked off with DD so I didn’t see this but my mum said the shop keeper pulled a really angry face and did a ‘strangling motion’ behind mine and DDs back. DD then got upset again and I picked her up to try and calm her but she got more upset. The Shop keeper said ‘I think she wants to be put down, doesn’t she’ in a really stern manner, like she was trying too belittle me.

My mum wanted to purchase something so we went to the que and when was getting served o said to DD ‘you’re tired arnt you’re and the shop keeper said ‘yes, I understand she wasn’t doing anything wrong but I’m very old fashioned’. I think this was very inappropriate. What are peoples opinions please.

Probably would have taken her out during the first meltdown/ tantrum since I'm inferring it's a small shop. Wouldn't have been there for number 2 to occur.

I think you need to bear in mind that most charity shop "staff" are actually volunteers - some stores will have a paid manager, but not all.
Amongst the volunteers, there are likely to be some who have SEN or unable to find paid employment for some reason, which could well be their communication skills.
It's a charity shop, not John Lewis.

Why would you ask your dc if they wanted to go out of the shop? You're the parent, just tell her/take her out. I imagine the shop worker got fed up of the noise and you passively trying to appease your child instead of parenting them

You lost me with this. When mine had tantrums they were returned home immediately. Tantrums have never been seen as normal in this house.

Hark at Mrs sanctimonious !!

@CharityShopChic are you sure you aren't the volunteer in question here ?? You seem to be doing an awful lot of sticking up for this rude women. !!

My child had his first ever tantrum in a pub hotel whilst waiting for breakfast. We had all of our bags with us, I was looking after someone else's child for a few minutes and had drawing things etc all over the table. I couldn't leave the place and was mortified.

You can't reason with or get through to a toddler mid tantrum and I couldn't leave and take him outside. we just had to ride it out. The real root cause, he was hungry. A slice of toast later and he was back to the dream child he normally is. I was however shaky, full of adrenalin and on the verge of tears myself. What helped was the couple who came to me afterwards, told him he was such a good boy and that I'd done well.

Maybe if we started supporting parents having a rough time, and accept that toddlers will tantrum from time to time, but they get to take up space in this world too- everyone would be a little bit happier.

He's never had a public tantrum in the year since, thank goodness.

People are twats OP sometimes about little kids who are struggling to regulate their emotions. Just chalk it up as one of those days. We have ALL been there whatever the holier-than-thou posters claim. The volunteer was horrible and you would have been well within your rights to say something pretty sharp like “don’t touch my child”. Today is another day - onwards!

Oh and I've shared my story not to comment on how the shop lady behaved - it wasn't ideal but not totally shocking either - but in response to all the perfect parents on here berating another parent for not doing things their way.

"No one likes a screaming toddler"
On the contrary, I understand that a toddler screaming is doing so for a reason and that they're still learning how to deal with lots of different new experiences a day.
I keep seeing people here saying consider that the volunteer might have sensory issues, well so might the toddler (any toddler, not the one from the OP)
In many cases it's not that parents are stressed by the toddler screaming it's that they're stressed at what others will think while they're trying to deal with it, be it in a shop out of a shop, at the park, wherever.
It's hard to deal with a very small person going with knowing there are people watching, judging and apparently slagging you off online
Yuck
This all applies to the above quote not the specific tantrum from the op

@1forAll74

I would have taken her outside. children having tantrums in small shops can be annoying to witness. But if I was working in the shop.I would have got a toy or something off the shelf, to try and humour the child..and take her mind off the tantrum business.

No you wouldn't because you'd be doing 101 other things directly involved with running the shop. And as some posters on this thread have demonstrated, approaching a child, or God forbid giving a child something or touching a child means the mother will "break your fucking fingers".

And no, Lollipop. I was not volunteering today, and was barely on the till when I volunteered yesterday. But I have seen how some parents allow their children to behave in our shop because it's "just a charity shop". I also have a great deal of respect for my fellow volunteers. Not all are either very old and decrepit or have mental health issues. But some do, they don't advertise the fact and working a morning a week in our shop is hugely beneficial for them. The woman tapped a child on the shoulder and made a jokey strangulation gesture behind the child's back. Big deal. Mother should have taken the child out when it was "screaming, kicking off and throwing herself around". Irrespective of whatever confined space the child had their tantrum in.

Nobody wants to hear that.

@CharityShopChic 'tapped her a few times on the shoulder', wagged her finger in her face, made a few horrible comments and then the strangulation thing. All completely unacceptable behaviour.

Just putting it out there - trying to have a calm chat with anyone, in fact any species - when they're over-threshold and having a melt-down is a big fat waste of everyones time.

agree. And yes, aybe the shop lady shouldn't have "tapped" the toddler on the shoulder, the "throttling" action - meh misguided but I agree it's not world-shaking. But the thing to do when you have children and people do that - tell them to stop. And then remove the child.

Sorry you lost your DP, OP, that must be very hard.

Wow there are a lot of people being hard on other people in this thread. Every player in the story- the mum, the toddler, the grandma, the shopkeeper- has been criticized and slagged off.

In my opinion the shopkeeper was utterly inappropriate but so much so that there must be some other reason for her behaviour. She wasn't being paid either. The mum was doing her best to contain the tantrum and whatever you think after the fact it's not especially helpful to go on about it because when your kid tantrums in a shop it's bloody stressful and you do what you can! Carrying a flailing 2 year old through a load of clothes rails and bric-a-brac and onto the street where there may be cars and pedestrians would not be my first instinct either. The toddler was just doing the toddler thing and combat l couldn't help it. The grandma just made the common mistake of thinking you could do a nice little potter around the shops when you have a two year old with you - we've all done it (and how do children get life experience of you never take them anywhere in case they misbehave?)

Definitely one of those times to chalk up to experience but not necessary to examine the minutae of everyone's actions! Just humans being humans!

@ChiefWiggumsBoy

I honestly don't think any of this is something I would have been arsed about. A tantrumming toddler isn't fun, anyone who hasn't flicked the Vs or similar at their annoying kid is lying . I would have read the reaction as more of a solidarity thing.

Put it this way - and you're absolutely free to have your own opinion of course - but is it more likely that this woman was aggressive and threatening towards a 2 year old, or that you were a little stressed and maybe embarrassed about her behaviour and that has coloured your thinking?

So no, I wouldn't complain, and I wouldn't have reacted the way you have at all. I would likely have rolled my eyes and done a 'kids!' type exclamation before manhandling the child outside.

I fail to see how making a strangling motion behind the parent’s and child’s backs is a gesture of solidarity - unless you mean solidarity towards the grandmother who saw the gesture. Supposed solidarity for the one is obvious hostility towards the others. I also don’t see how a hard poke of the child can be interpreted as being made with helpful intent when followed up with an aggressive gesture! The intention was clearly to make as public as possible the shop assistant’s negative opinion of the toddler and parent and was not even the tiniest bit helpful or supportive - it was in fact guaranteed to exacerbate the situation. No toddler in history has ever stopped a full in tantrum because a complete stranger poked them.

Toddler screaming must be tolerated and mother given compassion. An adult volunteer who for whatever reason, potentially sen, brain injury, mh etc, can't possibly be tolerated or shown compassion. No, she shouldn't be allowed to be public facing.

Does no one see the mismatch?

Everyone could do with being more understanding of the fact that some people can't easily conform to the standards you've decided they should be able to whether that's because they're 2 or because they sen or other traumatic or organic deficits.

Btw, and I know I'll be berated, not every child does have tantrums and not everyone has been there. Yes lots of toddlers do have tantrums and lots of parents struggle to deal with them however that doesn't mean everyone whose children didn't behave like this or who managed to avert behaviour escalating towards this is a liar or sanctimonious.

I used to work with brain injured clients btw - one of whom I accompanied to her charity shop volunteer role once a week and who I'd accompany shopping, going for a drink etc. She could come across as rude, inappropriate (massively so with men as her inhibitions were shot), a 'weirdo' as people have delightfully called this woman.

You have no idea. She might have been too terrified to speak to anyone a year ago and is now clumsily managing to face the public in a charity shop and occasionally gets it wrong. She might have no idea that what she did was mis-pitched and caused offence.

Someone actually said on here that sen, mh etc was no excuse for inappropriate behaviour ffs.

If you want consideration and the benefit of the doubt for you the cost is having the same for others. Otherwise you're just self centred and entitled and raising your children to be the same. Part of raising small people is teaching them to be considerate of others. If people did that more I wouldn't have got earache in the chemist yesterday listening to a young person shouting at someone on the phone and airing all of her intimate and uncomfortable business in a small quiet enclosed space. People are blatantly not being trained in basic stuff anymore because people think they and their needs should be tolerated without having to extend that courtesy to anyone else or obey all the little social rules that make life more bearable for everyone whatever their specific needs.

There is no mismatch whatsoever in pointing out the volunteer shop assistant was not acting in solidarity or being supportive, and was not being helpful. Yes, of course the volunteer could have disabilities that result in them being exceptionally self-centred in their responses to stress, and having particular sensory sensitivities. That would merely help explain their unhelpful, nasty reaction, but would certainly not condone it. The human least to blame in this scenario is the toddler, as at 2-years old, they have not yet had enough life to have learnt effective strategies to deal with sensory overload - they are pretty self-centred more or less by definition at that age.

Also, the toddler didn’t choose to be in the charity shop volunteering or shopping - they were forced to be there.

the toddler didn’t choose to be in the charity shop

And so?

I would have picked dd up and taken out of the shop for tantrum and weirdness doesn’t matter if your mum was buying something. Your mum could have quickly paid or helped dd calm down outside and returned to pay. Just forget about it but the best thing about toddlers is you can still pick them up and move them and every parent can remember there’s having tantrums

I'm appalled that you didn't stand up for your DD & tell the woman to back the fuck off out of her face whilst you were trying to deal with the situation.

Otherwise put it behind you, learn from it & next time speak up & call people out for interfering

@Porcupineintherough

the toddler didn’t choose to be in the charity shop

And so?

Self-evidently because they had the least agency over the situation. They were the most vulnerable and had the least power. The reaction of all concerned was understandable, but to say the toddler’s behaviour should have been controlled and they should be made to understand their behaviour was not appropriate and should be forcibly removed from the situation, but that the adults concerned might have disabilities that not only explain but also condone their behaviour, so that nothing should be said or done about it, is no more rational or reasonable than claiming the volunteer should not be allowed out in public.

@Walkaround ok

I mean I kind of think that the most obvious answer is not that this woman was so filled with outright rage that she assaulted a toddler and made a threatening gesture, but that she tapped a child on the shoulder to try and distract them and then made a ‘bloody kids!’ gesture - but neither of us were there so we’ll have to agree to disagree.