Page 9 | To think marriage is a thing of the past?

StaceyP92 · 2022-04-01T11:28:07+00:00

So, I have 2 children, work part time - although could return full time in a heartbeat, own my House. If we split I would then work full time and be able to afford to live by myself with the kids? Why is going part time after babies seen as being financially dependant? Also, my partner doesn’t have any other assets so I really don’t understand what this ‘no children before marriage’ statement is?

Shehasadiamondinthesky · 02/04/2022 08:29

What people don't understand is that marriage has always been a business contract that is designed to benefit both parties. It is not about being a princess for the day or some concept of everlasting love, or anything from Disney.
From this point of view it would be a very bad idea for me to get married. I have one adult son, I have my own home and bought my son a house as well and have a career, savings and a pension. If I was to marry I could risk losing much of it if it ended in divorce and would affect DS inheritance.
If marriage will benefit you do it if not don't. Forget about love.

thepeopleversuswork · 02/04/2022 09:37

@Shehasadiamondinthesky

What people don't understand is that marriage has always been a business contract that is designed to benefit both parties. It is not about being a princess for the day or some concept of everlasting love, or anything from Disney. From this point of view it would be a very bad idea for me to get married. I have one adult son, I have my own home and bought my son a house as well and have a career, savings and a pension. If I was to marry I could risk losing much of it if it ended in divorce and would affect DS inheritance. If marriage will benefit you do it if not don't. Forget about love.

This exactly. Marriage is an insurance policy. Ideally it is designed around a loving relationship but at heart that is what it is and it’s important not to lose sight of this.

Marriage would be a disastrous idea financially for me. I am in a happy and stable relationship with someone who I could easily be married to but if we did get married it would jeopardise my daughter’s financial future.

Of the people saying they married for love and commitment etc it would be interesting to hear how many of you would have felt like this about marriage if it had not been in your financial interest?

I know love is a real consideration for people getting married but I can’t help feeling that for women it’s so bound up with a) social expectation and b) their financial interest that they convince themselves it has some spiritual/romantic dimension.

If you unpick this and remove the financial incentive would the romantic stuff still hold up? It’s very noticeable to me that men - who by and large have far more to lose than women from marriage - never get caught up in this hearts and flowers stuff.

I completely get why people get married btw and in many cases it is the best practical choice a woman can make, but I think the interlinking of financial interest with romance is quite unhelpful and unhealthy. I think women need to become much clearer eyed about marriage and dropping the Disney factor would help.

MajorCarolDanvers · 02/04/2022 09:44

There are over 275,000 marriages every year in the UK and just over half of adults in the uk aged over 16 are married.

So it's hardly a thing of the past.

Idonea · 02/04/2022 10:30

@StaceyP92

Statements like this make women feel inferior…just because I am not married doesn’t make me at a weaker position? You are completely missing the point, I am Not having a dig at women who are not in this position? I am having a dig at the people who say you shouldn’t have kids before marriage??? I just really do not understand the protection that marriage gives?

Why not go educate yourself then?

If you have a good job and a home of your own, congrats. You can probably survive a split. Your ex boyfriend doesn't have to pay a penny.

People who live in Boyfriend's houses get kicked out and are homeless. They have no claim on the property, no shared assets to divide up. They're left with nothing.

But good for you, I guess.

Idonea · 02/04/2022 10:31

That said I think women should have their own secure job and a home before considering marriage or kids. Reliance on partnership is too fragile. Always look after yourself first.

CornishGem1975 · 02/04/2022 10:38

@thepeopleversuswork

Of the people saying they married for love and commitment etc it would be interesting to hear how many of you would have felt like this about marriage if it had not been in your financial interest?

It wasn't in my financial interest. I outright owned my house, he had no assets to bring. There was literally no financial incentive for us to marry, in fact, I would have been better off not getting married. It also wasn't because of social conventions or the desire to be a princess for the day, or because I wanted a Disney wedding, this was my second marriage, I've done all that before.

CornishGem1975 · 02/04/2022 10:41

Also to add, the first time around it WAS because that's 'what we should do', the next step blah blah blah, I didn't feel great about it at the time and no surprise we got divorced years later.

The second time around, it was a choice we made because we wanted to be married to each other. There was no pressure to do so from anywhere at all.

Neongoddess · 02/04/2022 10:51

[quote CornishGem1975]@thepeopleversuswork

Of the people saying they married for love and commitment etc it would be interesting to hear how many of you would have felt like this about marriage if it had not been in your financial interest?

It wasn't in my financial interest. I outright owned my house, he had no assets to bring. There was literally no financial incentive for us to marry, in fact, I would have been better off not getting married. It also wasn't because of social conventions or the desire to be a princess for the day, or because I wanted a Disney wedding, this was my second marriage, I've done all that before.[/quote]
So you put nothing in place to protect your house? If you divorce he will get a share, if you die he gets it and leaves it to whoever he wants

I am presuming you have been married a whole and it's worked out. But if there was no financial incentive for you, such as access to his pension (or you have the bigger pension) etc that's a huge gamble to make.

gogohm · 02/04/2022 10:52

Everyone's circumstances are different. In my situation being married means I'm getting 65% of assets in divorce

MurmuratingStarling · 02/04/2022 12:00

@MajorCarolDanvers

There are over 275,000 marriages every year in the UK and just over half of adults in the uk aged over 16 are married.

So it's hardly a thing of the past.

Good point.

I know 7 young women right now aged 26 to 33, who, 10 years ago, were all like 'marriage is a trap, marriage is a bind, I am not being OWNED by a man, only DOGS are owned!' etc etc etc, and who mocked and derided married women, and called them 'handmaids' and 'chattels.'

3 of them said even if they DO eventually get married, they will NEVER take his surname 'because patriarchy!' All feisty, ballsy, feminists, standing up for the wimminz!!! All professionals, all university educated (except one,) all well-travelled, and all with good, solid, well-paid careers.

10 years on, all 7 women are married, except one, who is getting married in September, and every single one has taken her husband's surname. All done what they said they wouldn't do. (Even bride No 7. is taking her DH's surname!)

I did ask a couple of them why they took their husband's surname after all, and they said 'it makes them cringe' when the children have the dad's surname; ergo, a different surname to the mother. Plus, people will assume they're not married. Also, they have seen people experience various problems in life, with there being multiple surnames in a family.

I also think the reason they all got married, is that two of them decided to tie the knot, (and had a baby,) and the others started to feel a bit left out. So they all took stock, realised marriage IS the best thing for a woman, (as is taking the man's surname,) and they decided to get married.... They will never admit all of that though.

BalladOfBarryAndFreda · 02/04/2022 12:10

@MajorCarolDanvers

There are over 275,000 marriages every year in the UK and just over half of adults in the uk aged over 16 are married.

So it's hardly a thing of the past.

That’s true but it is in decline, as demonstrated by my ONS data link earlier.

2orangey · 02/04/2022 12:29

I agree with PPs that marriage is not a thing of the past, even if it isn't necessarily for everyone.

Perhaps in the past people (especially women) felt pressured to marry whether they truly wanted to or not. It's definitely good that we are all much more free to make our own choices now (although we do still feel that pressure at times).

Marriage means different things to different people. For some it has a religious aspect. Others might see it as marking the start of adulthood (I don't think this would be a common view in modern UK). Nowadays in Western countries it usually seen as having a largely romantic component. More pragmatic types might see it as a combining of assets.

I got misty eyed when I married my OH because I love him and wanted to make a lifetime commitment. But on a pragmatic note we were both aware of the legal benefits.

At the end of the day, it is mainly a legal contract which ideally ensures both partners, as well as any children, won't end up with nothing should the worst happen.

You only need to spend a short time on the relationships board to see how badly things can go wrong when an unmarried SAHM gets dumped/cheated on. And if you aren't married to your partner and he gets ill or God forbid dies, things will potentially be so much harder. I mean, you can spend loads of time and money getting solicitor to put protections in place for these eventualities, but with marriage it's all provided in one convenient package.

Of course it isn't for everyone. I definitely don't think unmarried people with children are idiots. Maybe they have set up legal arrangements that I'm not privy to. I DO think unmarried cohabiting people, especially those with children, need to be very clear in their minds about arrangements for worse case scenarios.

GrimDamnFanjo · 02/04/2022 12:39

Close friend of mine, middle class, fab career etc
Her six figure earning partner said they were too cool for marriage. Four kids later he walked out leaving her and their children penniless. They lost their home, she never thought he'd treat her like that but she had no idea what she'd lose without the protection of marriage.

Each to their own.

Neongoddess · 02/04/2022 16:23

So they all took stock, realised marriage IS the best thing for a woman, (as is taking the man's surname,)

Its best for some women. Not for others.

I dont get why taking their name is best for women tbh. And I did take exhs name.

babyjellyfish · 02/04/2022 16:37

@MurmuratingStarling You really do genuinely believe that the way you have chosen to live your life is the best way, don't you?

Original poster

StaceyP92 · 02/04/2022 16:43

So the issue is…giving up your job if your not married to be a SAHP?

OP posts:

1FootInTheRave · 02/04/2022 16:48

Romantic notions aside, it's a legally binding contract.

My pal is going through a divorce after being a sahm for the last 16 years. She'd be absolutely fucked if they weren't married.

Neongoddess · 02/04/2022 17:24

@StaceyP92

So the issue is…giving up your job if your not married to be a SAHP?

That's one part of it.

2orangey · 02/04/2022 18:25

@StaceyP92

So the issue is…giving up your job if your not married to be a SAHP?

That's a big one. Even if you aren't a SAHM, if you split up and didn't get married, child maintenance will be limited to CMS.

Also, god forbid if one of you were to become ill or die. Just think about it.

Who gets to be next of kin in the hospital?
Who is consulted regarding funeral arrangements?
The deceased partner's bank account will be held as part of their estate - the other partner can't access it.
If the deceased partner's dies without a will
the other partner gets nothing.
Also worth considering inheritance tax.

DogsAndGin · 02/04/2022 18:46

It is perfectly ok to have children before marriage in this country these days. What is the problem here? Some people believe you should get married first, some don’t. Both are fully acceptable 🤷🏼‍♀️

HardyBuckette · 02/04/2022 19:34

@DogsAndGin

It is perfectly ok to have children before marriage in this country these days. What is the problem here? Some people believe you should get married first, some don’t. Both are fully acceptable 🤷🏼‍♀️

As quite a lot of people have explained, it's not so much about what's acceptable as what's wise. If like OP and a lot of women who've posted on here over the years, a woman actually does want to be married, she probably maximises the chance of this happening by not having DC first and in particular by not giving them her partner's name. If a woman doesn't want to get married or doesn't care, fine, go ahead.

Original poster

StaceyP92 · 02/04/2022 19:47

It’s solely my house, DP has no assets he just earns more than me, I have also continued to pay into my pension through work and Child benefit gets paid to me?

OP posts:

Cocomarine · 02/04/2022 19:52

A question mark is not a full stop.

Cocomarine · 02/04/2022 19:53

@StaceyP92

It’s solely my house, DP has no assets he just earns more than me, I have also continued to pay into my pension through work and Child benefit gets paid to me?

Surely the thread is enough to make you realise that the value of marriage for each individual isn’t based on your personal circumstances?

BulletTrain · 02/04/2022 19:57

Just to say it's not always within your control whether you give up work or not. It's not just about fancying being a SAHP. My friend's second child has developed a lifelong autoimmune condition, meaning she is so constantly ill that one parent has had to stop working. They're married, thankfully.