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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think marriage is a thing of the past?

232 replies

StaceyP92 · 01/04/2022 12:28

So, I have 2 children, work part time - although could return full time in a heartbeat, own my
House. If we split I would then work full time and be able to afford to live by myself with the kids?

Why is going part time after babies seen as being financially dependant?

Also, my partner doesn’t have any other assets so I really don’t understand what this ‘no children before marriage’ statement is?

OP posts:
Whatalovelydaffodil · 01/04/2022 14:44

@StaceyP92

No I just don’t want to be classed as some sort of idiot for not marrying before children.
That's not nice if someone has said that to you. But, on the other hand, why would you marry after you have had children?
Neongoddess · 01/04/2022 14:45

@StaceyP92

No I just don’t want to be classed as some sort of idiot for not marrying before children.
So your problem isnt that marriage is a thing of the past.

Its not that you want to marry and he doesnt.

Its, actually, that some people know that having kids and going part time or being a sahp, without being married is often a bad idea and risky for women?

You just don't want them to have that opinion?

HardyBuckette · 01/04/2022 14:45

@Anyfeckinusername

I feel like I hail from another planet because when people talk about marriage and husbands it’s like a foreign concept to me.

I’ve a great life, really good salary and two great kids. I would feel very weird about someone being in here with me for life… married, tied…. Just don’t get it!

I have never daydreamed about a white dress, marriage of any part of it. I have romantic love and all that, but marriage to me is just what??? I simply don’t get it.

And I’m pushed to do so because of stuff like tax etc.

Those laws need to go!

Then the push for this expensive club to join/ expensive club to leave will go away

Why should other people not be able to enter into a particular form of legal contract because you feel conflicted about it?
Blossom64265 · 01/04/2022 14:45

You can be committed without being married, but you won’t be legal and economic partners without a whole bunch of paperwork and legal wrangling and even then it will be a pale imitation of the easy partnership created by the government with one marriage form.

If something happens to my DH, I might have another romantic relationship, but I will never remarry or commingle finances because my economic commitment will be to my child, even if she is an adult. I won’t be looking for a partner again because that partner can’t possibly have the same shared goals.

You have to separate the romantic and the pragmatic for a moment. Marriage works when it’s based on love, but it is really a legal contract that spreads the risk of raising children. Mostly it protects women, but it can protect men too and that is good. It lets two people make decisions together knowing that their interests are somewhat shared. It’s also important to remember that their interests aren’t identical and a good marriage will make sure the decisions made within the marriage don’t put either party at a significant disadvantage should the marriage fail or one party become impaired.

HardyBuckette · 01/04/2022 14:49

@StaceyP92

No I just don’t want to be classed as some sort of idiot for not marrying before children.
Well, calling you an idiot because of it is rude and unhelpful.

However, if you would actually like to get married, and it sounds like you do, when people say it's better not to have DC first then yours is the sort of scenario people are talking about. Because if a man wants children, which I accept they don't all, and if they want to give them their surname, which nearly all of them seem to feel entitled to and odds are is what's happened in your case because it usually is, the woman agreeing to have DC before marriage is taking away one of the reasons to do it.

Alaimo · 01/04/2022 14:50

DH and I got married for immigration reasons. We'd been together for almost a decade when we got married, so it's not like it was a scam marriage, but it was a change in migration/visa rules that provided the impetus for us to finally get married. Since then we've moved overseas for my job and it does make the whole visa/moving process a lot easier if you can just show a marriage certificate rather than a pile of paper work to prove that the relationship is serious. We don't have kids, but it's also comforting to know that if something were to happen to either of us the other would inherit any savings, property, etc.

GnomeDePlume · 01/04/2022 14:51

Of course you can be committed and not be married. The problem is that without marriage/civil partnership your relationship doesn't legally exist. Day to day this doesn't matter.

Marriage/civil partnership matters when you need to prove that a relationship exists. Oftentimes this will be because there is a problem. One of you gets seriously ill or dies, the romantic relationship ends and you need to prove that the legal relationship existed.

Do you ever travel abroad? A poster on another thread had the awful experience of her DH suddenly dying while on holiday. She said the whole experience was awful enough but would have been many times worse if they hadn't been married.

StCharlotte · 01/04/2022 14:52

DH and I are on a fairly even keel financially and both owned our own properties before we got together. We'd both cope financially if we split up.

Emotionally however, I bloody love being married and that's what it's about for me.

A family member has five children and has been engaged for longer than I've been married (over 20 years). If her DP left her, she'd be utterly screwed.

Whatever works for you may not work for others. Doesn't make you right. Or necessarily wrong.

It's horses for courses OP.

MintJulia · 01/04/2022 14:56

I think there is such a variety of circumstance now.

I had a dc in my 40s by which time I owned my house outright. DP had two adult children by a previous marriage who were still living at home in his house.

So while we were delighted with news of pregnancy, his dcs weren't. Under those circumstances I chose not to marry or co-habit. It was better to remain separate.

Toomuch2019 · 01/04/2022 15:00

I love my husband but didn't marry because of it.

We got married primarily to ensure that we got equal rights to death in service pensions (our organisation had different rules for married couples at the time). And for next of kin reasons too. It just made things much simpler

For anyone working part time I would encourage marriage, if you don't marry you can maybe go full time again and live month by month fine but you will have missed all those years of pension contributions for your old age.

NowEvenBetter · 01/04/2022 15:01

@Anyfeckinusername
Nah, those laws do not ‘need to go!’
It’s important that people opt in to getting legal status and protections, not just organically evolve them after shagging for a certain amount of time. Rightly so that boyfriends/girlfriends have zero protections, that’s their choice.

BalladOfBarryAndFreda · 01/04/2022 15:06

Statistically, you aren’t wrong OP. According to most recent figures for England and Wales, marriage rates have been decreasing for a while (www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/marriagecohabitationandcivilpartnerships).

That said, marriage is still a popular option that is beneficial to most women (thanks to inequalities in wages, career progression and biological realities of pregnancy & childbirth). A friend who works in the wedding industry is absolutely rushed off her feet and certainly hasn’t noticed a lack of customers.

Minatrina · 01/04/2022 15:17

Another thing for me is that I love my husband and he loves me - if we were to split up, which many couples do, we don't want either of us to be shafted by financially. That's why we got married, to protect ourselves and each other. I'm sure most people feel the same about their partner (of course, by the time you're at the divorce stage you may feel differently 🤣 but the point is you don't feel like that at the time when you marry)

MurmuratingStarling · 01/04/2022 15:25

@Swayingpalmtrees

Rather romantically dh and I got married to be one, to be a family, we share names, our home and our children and our dreams. It bonds us altogether.

For us it was a marriage of devotion, and I can not imagine a single day without him even twenty years later. If he died tomorrow, I would never remarry. I would never find someone like him. Marriage is not always just a legal contract, it is very often done to consolidate a deep love between two people.

Marriage is for life for many people, and brings great security, comfort and a deep sense of contentment.

@Swayingpalmtrees

Don't need a sick bowl. This is actually lovely. Smile

MurmuratingStarling · 01/04/2022 15:37

@StaceyP92

My DP has put my as his next of kin for life insurance etc but I’m not too sure why haha?

I love him more than anything in the world I really do. Would love to get married if would say yes if he asked of course, it just hasn’t come up yet. I’ve had my fair share of mental health issues since the kids came along so probably made him feel he was taking a risk hahah!

Wait what? So NOW you say you want to get married? Make your mind up. Hmm
Original poster
StaceyP92 · 01/04/2022 15:43

My point wasn’t that I didn’t want to, just that people say you ‘should’ before children

OP posts:
MurmuratingStarling · 01/04/2022 15:45

@Minatrina

And, quite frankly, the rhetoric of 'marriage is a thing of the past/just a piece of paper etc' has actively harmed so many women that have gone along with it. The ones who find after spending years as sahm or in low paid part times jobs, their partner kicks them out and they have a struggle financially.

Agree with this. I have a friend with a delightful (read: awful) partner who's convinced her that marriage is a pointless piece of paper. She's now pregnant and is planning on giving up her job to become a SAHM and live in her boyfriend's house. I have gently tried to make her realise how much marriage could protect her but she won't have it because he's convinced her that it's uncool to get married Hmm

Also OP, a lot of people just think getting married is a romantic and frankly obvious thing to do idk what to tell you 🤷‍♀️

That's sad. I can't believe anyone would give advice to any woman to have babies with a man and NOT get married.

As a previous poster said, interestingly, it's well-educated, professional women who are more likely to get married. Because they know it's the sensible thing to do.

MurmuratingStarling · 01/04/2022 15:46

@StaceyP92

My point wasn’t that I didn’t want to, just that people say you ‘should’ before children
Confused
Lulu1919 · 01/04/2022 15:48

No my daughter who is 27 is getting married this summer and her sister 29 got married 18 months ago ...so I don't agree !!

Calennig · 01/04/2022 15:58

@Hercisback

As you've just proved, marriage being a benefit or a potential cost, depends on the circumstances of the couple.
This.

It's also these days just as normal to get married post having children as before - change in PR rights possibly helped that along but was already a trend.

It's a legal state - not just a social thing - and that frequently gets overlooked.

Citizens advise Living together and marriage: legal differences.

Ponoka7 · 01/04/2022 16:00

@StaceyP92

"My DP has put my as his next of kin for life insurance etc but I’m not too sure why haha?"

Because with out that you aren't his next of kin and can't necessarily carry out all the bits needed to close bank accounts, collect his body, arrange a funeral, collect any money and inherit from him. Who is his legal next of kin?

My DH had a twat of a family, when he got cancerous brain tumors and had to be detained under the MH Act, as his wife I was his next of kin and got a say. His family don't believe in MH/medical conditions are big anti treatment/Vax and if I was battling them it would have been a bigger nightmare.

He's put you on now and you can make wills, but he can also change that without you knowing. As his wife you'd have rights. Men are notorious for getting a new family and bio kids being fucked over.

piglet81 · 01/04/2022 16:01

It sounds like you would like to be married, @StaceyP92, so why don’t you propose to him?

Do you own your house as joint tenants or tenants in common? Do you have wills, and are you the beneficiaries for each other’s pensions/life insurance etc? Marriage is a simple and cost-effective way of dealing with what could be lots of paperwork in one go.

Calennig · 01/04/2022 16:02

@StaceyP92

My point wasn’t that I didn’t want to, just that people say you ‘should’ before children
Having children can adversally impact on women's careers - doesn't always and sometimes men become SAHD.

Previous generations had greater stigma attacked to children out of wedlock and fewer work opportunities and less legal protection.

I do think it's much more normal than in prior decades to have kids first however many people can and do marry before children or marry never wanting children.

JustLyra · 01/04/2022 16:02

@StaceyP92

I’m not privileged, we got a mortgage i new I could afford the repayments on if anything happened (nothing spectacular just a 3 bed semi) I also don’t have an amazing job, just enough to get me by if needed. How is that privileged? I’m not here for an argument at all! I just see a lot of threads of women who want children and then other women are posting saying you would be daft if not married, but it’s not always the case
Is it a joint mortgage?

If so can you afford to buy him out?
Can you afford the deposit and fees on a new place if he forced a sale?

While you’ve been working part time have you (joint you) been paying into a pension as you would have if you worked full time or has your pension taken a hit?