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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think marriage is a thing of the past?

232 replies

StaceyP92 · 01/04/2022 12:28

So, I have 2 children, work part time - although could return full time in a heartbeat, own my
House. If we split I would then work full time and be able to afford to live by myself with the kids?

Why is going part time after babies seen as being financially dependant?

Also, my partner doesn’t have any other assets so I really don’t understand what this ‘no children before marriage’ statement is?

OP posts:
thepeopleversuswork · 01/04/2022 16:04

@Swayingpalmtrees

Marriage is not always just a legal contract. It is very often done to consolidate a deep love between two people

That’s the ideal and the template that a lot of (mainly women) have in their heads.

But while loving the person you’re married to is a great thing to aspire to I actually think this attitude is responsible for a lot of damage in society.

It makes women idealise marriage and see it as a solution and endgame in itself and disincentivises them from becoming economically independent which is the only true way to protect yourself.

I think women would do themselves a great favour by decoupling a lot of the romantic nonsense around marriage and become more hard nosed about it.

AChocolateOrangeaday · 01/04/2022 16:07

Who are you trying to kid OP?

Yourself or us?

MurmuratingStarling · 01/04/2022 16:10

@AChocolateOrangeaday

Who are you trying to kid OP?

Yourself or us?

This. ^
Figgygal · 01/04/2022 16:11

You're talking absolute nonsense op
And seemingly you do actually want to get married after all

Mia85 · 01/04/2022 16:12

@StaceyP92

My point wasn’t that I didn’t want to, just that people say you ‘should’ before children
People say this because:
  1. Having children is often the point at which one parent takes a step back to become SAHP/part-time/less pressured role at work and it is not fair for that person to take all the financial risk of that decision. Marriage gives some protection from that risk.
  1. Once you have dependent children you should have plans for what happens if things go wrong e.g. one of you dies. Part of that is making sure the surviving parent is in as good a finanicial position as possible You don't need marriage for that but it makes things easier.
  1. Money and time tend to be in short supply with young children so planning the wedding first is often more sensible if you know you want to eventually.

Of course that doesn't mean everyone thinks you 'should' or that it's right for everyone but they are good reasons to think about.

IncompleteSenten · 01/04/2022 16:13

If every woman was in your situation or better then it possibly would be a thing of the past.

But many women have children with men, unmarried and give up their jobs to raise his children, in his house, paying into no pension scheme, getting no career advancement, gaining no employment skills and if the relationship breaks down she's left with minimal child support or none if he chooses to be a twat, no right to half the house, no claim on his pension, no up to date job skills and often fuck all savings.

She's royally fucked. So my advice is never give up your job and your financial independence to be a sahm for a man you aren't married to (and ideally not even then!)

HighOnPie · 01/04/2022 16:14

On MN, marriage is often discussed as solely a financial transaction between two people. When DH proposed to me, he did so because of plain old love and devotion. We married for purely romantic reasons!

What we get out of being married cannot be measured, it has huge benefits to our health and mental well-being, the sense of stability being married provides is very reassuring; we are a solid team and being married only serves to reinforce this. It may only be ‘a piece of paper’, but marriage is very different to simply living together as a couple.

Marriage makes a lot of people very happy and content, although it may often seem the polar opposite case on MN. Marriage isn’t going anywhere, well not for a long time, anyway

Kdubs1981 · 01/04/2022 16:14

@StaceyP92

I want to Marry for the right reasons though? Not with the intention that he might screw me over?
What are the right reasons?
jimpamdwight · 01/04/2022 16:15

I'm divorced and a mum of 2. If we hadn't have been married I would have been in a terrible position now. Being married meant that us splitting came with a huge safety net of finances, somewhere to live, support that is legally binding.

I run my own business and make the equivalent of a low ish paid full time role somewhere but I am able to be the main support and carer for my children. But I live in an expensive area and I wouldn't have been able to stay where I was if it wasn't for a financial settlement which we agreed upon with lawyers. I thought my ex husband was a wonderful amazing couldn't get better dad when we were together, but things and dynamics change when you separate and no matter how much you think you can trust your partner NOW to support financially and in every other way when you split, you don't know if that is actually the case.

You may think you'll be totally fine being able to work full time, look after the kids, pay the bills and mortgage but who's going to stay home and look after ill kids, take time off work for whatever reason a child may need you, who's paying for school holiday care if you're working full time? Is your potential ex partner going to take 12-14 weeks off a year to look after them if you can afford it? All well and good in a two income family but in a one income family everything is harder.

Maybe you could afford it but it's not quite as straight forward as you're saying

OatmilkandCookies · 01/04/2022 16:16

I got married to DH because I love him, as well as the financial security if one of us should die. I'm the higher earner and I like to know that if I die, my death in service payment from work, life insurance, etc will help keep a roof over his head and make sure he can pay the bills without having to work himself to the bone while grieving.

OlympicProcrastinator · 01/04/2022 16:18

Welp it was important for me to get married first, not least of all because it demonstrated a level of commitment from the father that he was in it for the long haul rather than just paying lip service.

Not so important when our planned child came along and I had a great job. Very important when I had to give up my job after getting extremely unwell giving birth to a baby I had no idea I was having until halfway through the pregnancy.

MurmuratingStarling · 01/04/2022 16:28

@Figgygal

You're talking absolute nonsense op And seemingly you do actually want to get married after all
Exactly this. This whole thread is just so bizarre.
confuseddotcom1234 · 01/04/2022 16:31

Marriage to me wasn't about the money or how I would afford a house though admittedly I couldn't afford our house on my own, I married my husband because I really love him and wanted to show my friends and family this. I love being a wife and love that it shows the world our commitment to each other. This might be old fashioned and outdated but it's how I feel!!!

Calennig · 01/04/2022 16:31

On MN, marriage is often discussed as solely a financial transaction between two people. When DH proposed to me, he did so because of plain old love and devotion. We married for purely romantic reasons!

It was a real mix for me of financial and legal but also love and romance and commitment and us both working to get us in best place so we felt we could bring children into the world - something we both wanted. But that was us - know many others who married during pg or after children who are happy the way they did it and others apparently happy they never married.

JollieJullie · 01/04/2022 16:34

OP, I think you are looking at this topic through a narrow view.

I would never get married, BUT I am an extremely high-earner, with assets, pensions and savings. If I had children, I would make sure that my setup allows me to continue developing my career. If that wasn't possible, I would not have children.

I understand that this is a very specific situation to be in and that I don't represent the majority of women. Hence, I don't make sweeping statements on marriage as an institutionWink

HardyBuckette · 01/04/2022 16:40

I think the reason the financial and legal aspects of marriage are so often discussed on MN is because those are the indisputable parts and there are clear right and wrong answers. YMMV on whether marriage is religiously important, affects your relationship etc, but the impact it has on eg inheritance tax is not a matter of opinion. I say this as someone whose reasons for getting married were not just legal and financial.

AlexaShutUp · 01/04/2022 16:42

OP, surely you're aware that lots of women couldn't go back to FT work "in a heartbeat", and that many would struggle to manage mortgage and bills on their own? For those women - possibly the majority - marriage before kids is absolutely the sensible thing to do.

Of course that won't apply to everyone, because everyone's circumstances are different. It isn't rocket science.

In my position, I would have been much better off financially if I hadn't got married, but I don't assume that my circumstances are the same for everyone and I am quite capable of seeing that marriage is the best option financially for many women, even if that doesn't apply to my situation.

OfstedOffred · 01/04/2022 16:46

why would I have to be earning a really high amount of money to afford mortgage, bills etc by myself?

Either you live in a very cheap part of the country, are very naive or just quite bad at maths.

MsTSwift · 01/04/2022 16:52

Have you looked at the IHT position?! If your house or estate above £325k you face a nasty tax bill on death. Many ardent anti marriage couples quietly tie the knot when the reality of that sinks in.

Motnight · 01/04/2022 16:57

My dp of 30 years and I married a little while ago. For legal and financial protection.

Looking back I was staggeringly naive not to have married earlier. I worked part time for many years to look after our child, as he was the higher earner. My career took a hit. If he had chosen he could have really screwed me over. Luckily he is a nice person so didn't!

roarfeckingroarr · 01/04/2022 16:59

I would love a wedding but I don't want to risk my assets through marriage. I bring significant family money and 3 properties to the relationship and as much as I love my long term DP (father to my DS), I've seen what many men do and I can't risk mine and my child's future.

burnoutbabe · 01/04/2022 17:01

@MsTSwift

Have you looked at the IHT position?! If your house or estate above £325k you face a nasty tax bill on death. Many ardent anti marriage couples quietly tie the knot when the reality of that sinks in.
you can plan around that or hold a joint house as joint tennants so its outside your estate

I want my assets to go to my nephews (no kids here) and partner the same. So we will both write wills to say that and yes, they will suffer IHT on the amount they get, but thats not an issue for me and no way to avoid that really if i want to leave assets that way.

The people who say "oh i married for love" - its a shame there is no way of doing that and avoiding the legal tie? one can love someone but still, not want to risk 50% of their assets if they suddenly have a mid life crisis and run off with a younger lady. No one KNOWS that won't happen so, in the absence of pre-nups being legally binding, then its easiest to avoid the risk and not marry.

other countries manage a sort of mid way house - a partnership where you can be next of kin but NOT legal tied and subject to whatever the current divorce laws are.

Lesperance · 01/04/2022 17:05

So your grandmother, who you love, and presumably respect, wonders why you aren't married, and your partner hasn't asked you. I think this is making you feel insecure and pulled both ways.
And in fact, you aren't married but what you would quite like is for your grandmother to stop asking you or to be wrong. But she could be totally wrong in your circumstances, it wouldn't matter. What matters is that you haven't had the conversation with your partner, not really. So you haven't actually made a choice, you are just putting up with what you have. Not being married is easier if both of you don't want to be married.

HardyBuckette · 01/04/2022 17:05

The people who say "oh i married for love" - its a shame there is no way of doing that and avoiding the legal tie?

There is. Religious and humanist ceremonies exist. The law won't stop you from having a ceremony that isn't legally binding and doesn't involve you entering into a contract, if that's what you want.

Elsiebear90 · 01/04/2022 17:14

If you aren’t married then legally you aren’t each other’s next of kin, meaning if your partner died you have no legal right to their property, pension, savings etc and
no legal right to make any medical decisions if they became incapacitated. As a HCP I have seen on a number of occasions unmarried partners being pushed out of the decision making process and not given priority when it comes to visitation because their partner’s parents are legal next of kin and have taken charge. You need to consider other things rather than just maintenance and who owns the house.