To think marriage is a thing of the past?

[StaceyP92]

So, I have 2 children, work part time - although could return full time in a heartbeat, own my
House. If we split I would then work full time and be able to afford to live by myself with the kids?

Why is going part time after babies seen as being financially dependant?

Also, my partner doesn’t have any other assets so I really don’t understand what this ‘no children before marriage’ statement is?

What do you think the 'right' reasons are OP? I'm of the view that those vary a lot depending on the people involved.

I am not getting married again.

I live with dp and my 2 older children. Was married to the kids dad.

I think yabu. I have the gold fortune to live in a cheapish area but earn alot. I moved here when I first divorced as I earned 25k and it was the nearest to my parents I could afford.

If you need someone else wage to pay part of your bills then you are financially dependent on them. If your parents pay your bills you would be financially dependent on them.

You seem to think that just going full time is an option for everyone. It's not working fulltime and having to use childcare or breakfast clubs and after school clubs is a struggle. When you are doing it alone it's harder.

Lots of people, even working fulltime as a single parent would struggle. Especially, if they all of a sudden find themselves homeless because their oartner has asked them to leave and the partner owns the house. Also if the partner earns more and has savings etc in their own name which you have no access to, there's no money ro move.

Marriage isnr the right thing for everyone. Its situation dependent. Some sahp are independently wealthy. Lots are not. Some people can go full time easy enough, some can not. Some people's kids have complex needs some do not. Some relationships are set up so they share money and property, with equal amounts in the both names and some are not.

Some people can afford to live off a part time wage. Some don't. Some people have lots in assets or kids with other people, some do not. Its about look at your own circumstances and trying to plan for a future where it doesn't go tits up.

If I went part time, I could pick up full time easy enough. I have quite a bit in assets. Dp is an adult with own money and we aren't having kids, so neither will be compromising our careers. So marriage isn't for us.

That doesn't make it pointless. And, quite frankly, the rhetoric of 'marriage is a thing of the past/just a piece of paper etc' has actively hated so many women that have gone along with it. The ones who find after spending years as sahm or in low paid part times jobs, their partner kicks them out and they have a struggle financially.

Marriage doesn't solve all problems and it doesnt guarantee you will be fine and never have to plan for the future. But for lots of people it's more sensible to marry.

Besides which, some people just really want to be married.thata fine too.

@PastMyBestBeforeDate

As well as the obvious rights around property, there are other legal implications of being married or in a civil partnership particularly if one of you dies.

This. People always bang on about what happens if a couple get divorced, house, assets etc. Its not always about divorce. They seem to forget if one of you dies, unless you've made a will, the surviving partner could be up shit creek. I've seen it happen and it's awful to have to deal with when your partner dies unexpectedly.

Very typical narrow minded view of someone privileged. Shame.

Even if women are higher earners who return to work full time, having children still impacts them negatively financially. There is also inherent risk involved to physically being pregnant and the unknown needs children might have that will demand career changes by at least one parent. Marriage mitigates these risks.

If you look at the demographics of who still chooses to marry, it is quite illuminating. Highly educated, high earners still overwhelmingly choose marriage before children. While other groups may be eschewing marriage, the people who probably need it the least still cling to it. It’s not because of tradition or morality, these groups also have very low rates of religious attendance and belief. Marriage remains a rational choice so it is still practiced.

Dropping marriage in other social groups seems linked to a couple of causes. One is entirely rational. Women no longer marry men that seem unworthy. Some of the others seem irrational. As I mentioned above, there appears to be a lack of acknowledgment in the inherent imbalance and risk surrounding pregnancy, childbirth, and parenting.

Marriage is basically a legal contract with advantages and disadvantages

For some the disadvantages outweigh the advantages so that chose to remain unmarried
Some people marry to give protection to the weaker party (male or female)
Some people think the whole thing is pointless and don't marry despite the protection it gives (or they don't realise why).

Examples of the last being a woman having children, living in the mans house, giving up her job as he earns loads... them him moving on to a different woman leaving her with no home, job etc and children to care for. Thats the sort of people who need marriage.

It should be a carefully considered position.

There is also those who need marriage for Visa reasons, working abroad etc.

Has your boyfriend/partner also gone part time since having the children? Did you split maternity leave? Do you share all the kids appointments/school runs/sick days equally between you? Have you been topping up your pension while your income has reduced? In most couples one person does more of the childcare and their finances are impacted more by having children than the other. In a marriage there is a legal framework that considers assets joint, so that if the marriage ended then assets would be split fairly. If you are not married then you are financially independent and there's no way to ensure any kind of fairness in retrospect.

Tbh, in my position, I would have been much better off not marrying. Despite my husband earning over £100k (far more than I do), the courts consider him the financially weaker party because I made sensible decisions so I had assets and a good pension when I met him. Whereas he did not, and then gave it all to his ex in his first divorce. Apparently I’m supposed to compensate him for that.

I should not have married him. More fool me.

I will be advising my children to never marry and ensure they can always support themselves.

Marriage seems a raw nerve for you op, if you are being asked when you are getting married and you are feeling so stressed about defending your own choices.

You don't have to get married. You can do what you like!

But it is worth noting for some women, marriage protects them from losing everything! Financially they are able to focus on having babies and working maybe part time for a number of years without being penalised when their husband walks out. It gives you legal rights to the house, to advocate for a husband in an accident/serious illness. You are legally bound together. There is a lot to be said for it! Without it your dh can walk anytime and take the house with him, and many women do not have access to good careers or financial advice.

So marriage before children is very suitable for many women.

@StaceyP92

I think it was when my Gran said..still Not married…I always walk away thinking is that what we need to do to Prove we are committed/love each other?

Well, in a sense... yes?

I mean it's entirely possible that your Gran is unaware of your particular situation and is thinking of your security from the viewpoint of someone who grew up in the 50s and 60s

but also, she probably does wonder why you haven't made the commitment.

(I'm presuming you haven't told her that you don't want to (a) because you think it won't last and you're protecting your assets or (b) because you think it would be giving in to patriarchal heteronormativity)

I will be advising my children to never marry and ensure they can always support themselves

Please don't let your bad experience influence their choices. I don't blame you for feeling bitter, but don't pass on the negativity. Encourage independence and let them make their own decisions.

You seem to have started this thread just to have an argument and can't understand that not everyone is you. And why do you make almost every statement a question? Have the courage of your argumentative convictions and make a statement a statement. Christ, I hate up-speak.

Tax implications, pension implications, legal implications, financial implications, romantic implications, and so on

Every couple looks at their situation assesses the risks associated and their wants and acts accordingly. You have just decided that in your circumstances you don't want to, that's ok. Other people come to different conclusions.

You're part time. So your pension has taken a hit and will continue to do so. I assume you're doing more of the childcare because you're part time? This enables him to earn more than you through your contribution.

Marriage equalises that out. It means his money is your money and visa versa. It means if things go wrong, you get compensated for the hit on your pension and the extra hours childcare you've put in, for example.

That's before we get to the different rights granted by Marriage. If he died tomorrow, you wouldn't automatically keep your house or any of the possessions he bought (car, fridge etc)

Marrying for love is a very recent development. Marriage is a contract and provides legal protections for both parties. Without a Marriage, you don't have that.

Rather romantically dh and I got married to be one, to be a family, we share names, our home and our children and our dreams. It bonds us altogether.

For us it was a marriage of devotion, and I can not imagine a single day without him even twenty years later. If he died tomorrow, I would never remarry. I would never find someone like him. Marriage is not always just a legal contract, it is very often done to consolidate a deep love between two people.

Marriage is for life for many people, and brings great security, comfort and a deep sense of contentment.

I did mean every word of my post though

Our elder DD has citizenship rights through DH due to the circumstances of her birth which she wouldn't have been entitled to if we weren't married.

I’m not privileged, we got a mortgage i new I could afford the repayments on if anything happened (nothing spectacular just a 3 bed semi) I also don’t have an amazing job, just enough to get me by if needed. How is that privileged? I’m not here for an argument at all! I just see a lot of threads of women who want children and then other women are posting saying you would be daft if not married, but it’s not always the case

@Swayingpalmtrees I actually love this!

I would marry absolutely but I don’t want it to be based on the fact of if he screws me over 😢

@StaceyP92

I want to Marry for the right reasons though? Not with the intention that he might screw me over?

This is ironic because you are not marrying for the exact same reasons.

No, I am not married because it hasn’t come up yet, I would though, I just don’t see the absolute need!

@Swayingpalmtrees

Rather romantically dh and I got married to be one, to be a family, we share names, our home and our children and our dreams. It bonds us altogether.

For us it was a marriage of devotion, and I can not imagine a single day without him even twenty years later. If he died tomorrow, I would never remarry. I would never find someone like him. Marriage is not always just a legal contract, it is very often done to consolidate a deep love between two people.

Marriage is for life for many people, and brings great security, comfort and a deep sense of contentment.

And this is the real reason for marriage. Love, trust, devotion. Why would you have kids without that. And is not marrying a sign you don’t? In many cases it unfortunately is.

Well then marry him because he means the world to you?

Thats why I married my dh, he was and is the most wonderful human I have ever met.

Why don't you want to marry op?

I have never seen any women advising others not to have children unless married on any parenting forum. Don't have kids with deadbeats/abusers/narcissists etc, yes, but the marriage things doesn't ring a bell and I've been on these forums for a good decade now.