To think marriage is a thing of the past?

[StaceyP92]

So, I have 2 children, work part time - although could return full time in a heartbeat, own my
House. If we split I would then work full time and be able to afford to live by myself with the kids?

Why is going part time after babies seen as being financially dependant?

Also, my partner doesn’t have any other assets so I really don’t understand what this ‘no children before marriage’ statement is?

You're in a long-term relationship with children and he hasn't proposed. You've stated that you would marry him if he did, so I think I know why you're so sensitive about the subject.

There is only one reason why a man doesn't propose, and that is because he doesn't want to marry the woman he is with. I'm so sorry, OP.

This has to be the most bizarre thread I’ve ever read. Marriage is outdated but you’d be married now if he’d asked?

Tbh I think it reads like the thread of someone who's belittling marriage in order to try to convince themselves not to feel worried and rejected that their partner doesn't seem to want to marry them. Atack is the best form of defence, or something.

@Fairislefandango

This has to be the most bizarre thread I’ve ever read. Marriage is outdated but you’d be married now if he’d asked?

Tbh I think it reads like the thread of someone who's belittling marriage in order to try to convince themselves not to feel worried and rejected that their partner doesn't seem to want to marry them. Atack is the best form of defence, or something.

I thought the same thing and feel quite sad for OP, it's clearly a sensitive issue for them.

@Fairislefandango

This has to be the most bizarre thread I’ve ever read. Marriage is outdated but you’d be married now if he’d asked?

Tbh I think it reads like the thread of someone who's belittling marriage in order to try to convince themselves not to feel worried and rejected that their partner doesn't seem to want to marry them. Atack is the best form of defence, or something.

And tbf that wouldn't be the first time we've had something like that on here...

[quote StaceyP92]@MurmuratingStarling you are assuming I have a well paid career, why would I have to be earning a really high amount of money to afford mortgage, bills etc by myself? What I don’t understand is the big no no to kids before marriage?????[/quote]
If you don't understand why people believe children should be born in wedlock, ask the people who said that when they say it what their reasons are.

@StaceyP92

Statements like this make women feel inferior…just because I am not married doesn’t make me at a weaker position? You are completely missing the point, I am Not having a dig at women who are not in this position? I am having a dig at the people who say you shouldn’t have kids before marriage??? I just really do not understand the protection that marriage gives?

They seem to make you feel inferior that's for sure.

I've already explained my reasons for getting married, and doing so before children so don't repeat myself.
I had always assumed that people who had children but weren't married, had no desire to be and that's absolutely their prerogative, but both a close colleague and a relative have children with long term partners and are now both very upset that said partners aren't bothered about being married and it isn't on the cards. Surely if being married is important to you, you set that out at the beginning, before you buy houses, before you have children etc. There is now resentment in both of those relationships.

We got married because we were in love and we wanted to celebrate that. I wasn't given away, I didn't vow to do anything that he didn't. I was the higher earner at that point. We married quickly because we wanted to.

Life didn't turn out as we expected, we have taken advantage of a lot of unexpected opportunities and had great fun! Things such as international moves were definitely easier because we were married. We had DC after 8 years of marriage. DH is now the higher earner but it doesn't matter, we have always been equals in everything.

It's been great. YABU.

If you don’t believe marriage holds value for you as an individual or would benefit you as a couple or any family you might form, then you should not get married. It isn’t a necessary part of building a life together.

However, if you believe marriage is valuable and useful, it makes no sense to have children prior to marriage. There is no utility in waiting. If you intend to put the legal contract in place at some point, why not maximize its usefulness and get that risk mitigation in place before children enter the equation.

My #1 reason for marrying my second husband, was that I have a cracking final salary pension with an amazing spousal benefit that (in the event of my death) can not go to a spouse.

Weird that, people having different circumstances and motivations.

You do seem to lack imagination, OP.

[quote StaceyP92]@HardyBuckette yes…maybe I could have worded it better,

My gran Said to me the other day, still
Not married the ? Why?!?[/quote]
It might be a generational difference, OP. In previous generations, it was much more common for people to marry before having children (for various reasons - tradition, religion, societal expectations). Some of that still stands now, but nowhere near as much as before. As PP have said, the benefits of marriage (and deciding whether to have children without marrying) totally depend on someone’s individual situation.

@Motnight

My dp of 30 years and I married a little while ago. For legal and financial protection.

Looking back I was staggeringly naive not to have married earlier. I worked part time for many years to look after our child, as he was the higher earner. My career took a hit. If he had chosen he could have really screwed me over. Luckily he is a nice person so didn't!

@Motnight

That's lovely news that you're married now.

Do you mind if I ask why you didn't get married for those first 30 years?

Sorry, I don't mean to be nosey or intrusive. Just genuinely curious.

Inheritance Tax. Next of Kin for Health issues. Cheaper car insurance. Because I like my DH.

@StaceyP92

Statements like this make women feel inferior…just because I am not married doesn’t make me at a weaker position? You are completely missing the point, I am Not having a dig at women who are not in this position? I am having a dig at the people who say you shouldn’t have kids before marriage??? I just really do not understand the protection that marriage gives?

Nobody can make you feel anything. People are responsible for their feelings.

Very silly thread, written from a position of considerable advantage, showing real lack of imagination in thinking how different people are in different situations.

@Fairislefandango

This has to be the most bizarre thread I’ve ever read. Marriage is outdated but you’d be married now if he’d asked?

Tbh I think it reads like the thread of someone who's belittling marriage in order to try to convince themselves not to feel worried and rejected that their partner doesn't seem to want to marry them. Atack is the best form of defence, or something.

100 million % this! ^

Marriage gives you so many legal and civil rights that it’s foolish to live together long term without it. I spent a decade on and off fighting to make gay marriage legal. Children born into marriage have more rights if their father leaves and have better adult outcomes. My mother was the town bastard. The shame never left her. Modern ways are all well and good, but people don’t forget when you live in the same small town all your life. Why give your child any reason to be stigmatized?

I just don't understand the Ops point, despite not wanting to marry myself.

Op is saying "marriage is a thing of the past, because I can easily go full time and afford the house I probably couldnt keep if we split because it would probably be sold. If I worked full time, in a not well paid job I could still easily meet mine and my children's needs. So everyone must be in that position. Everyone must have had a huge deposit or live in a cheap enough area that that's possible for them. And also i do want to get married, but my partner doesn't and we dont talk about it. My relationship is fine as it is, except we have been having lots of problems recently. I want to be married but dont feel it shows more commitment. I want marriage and the commitment from my dp, but also think it doesn't show more commitment. Basically, I don't want people to have an opinion that marriage before kids is a good idea if I reduce my earning potential, pension pot etc. People thinking I made the wrong choices make me feel bad. It's definitely not that I really want to be married and dp doesn't, that's making me feel bad. So I will try and get people to agree marriage is a thing of the past."

Just bizarre.

@StaceyP92

I want to Marry for the right reasons though? Not with the intention that he might screw me over?

This is a good point. If you think your partner might screw you over you probably do not want to get married to him. Bit if you knew that you probably wouldn't want to have children with him either.

I think the need to get married should be a thing of the past. if kids are involved then both oarebts should legally be forced to provide for them. I don't know what the law is around that. Maybe that's the case already.

We are not married and have been together 10 years. I don't really see the point. If there were a compelling tax or business reason, I would do it. But for us, we have no children, own our house jointly, have wills and everything is under the threshold for inheritance tax.

You are being purposefully obtuse, not every women is in the same position. if what your gran said has hit a nerve and clearly it has tell her to butt out if your business.

Similarly to a poster above I believe in marriage as an institution and one of the highest levels if commitment I could make to another person. I have a faith so it was important to me that I made the commitment of marriage first before I even considered kids. This is very much a part of my own life and I don't judge others who've chosen to do things differently.

Compare the work pensions of two people: one has worked full-time for 40 years. One has worked part time for 15 years and full-time for 25 years. If they are married then the pensions are split as part of a divorce. If they are not, they are not.

@StaceyP92

I want to Marry for the right reasons though? Not with the intention that he might screw me over?

What are the right reasons though? And why would you have DC with someone who wasn't good enough for you to marry?

I think one of the problems that comes up time and again on MN is that the woman wants to get married, assumes it will happen 'at some point' after having DC and then the man in question decides he doesn't want to.

She is then stuck.

Better to get the commitment of marriage sorted before having DC if it is important to you.

Agreed. And I think most posters who say get married before DC hold that view because of the risk of getting stuck if you do it the opposite way round.

When my DH died unexpectedly, I remember going into the solicitor's office to talk about the probate and distinctly remember her saying "well, thank GOD you were married". We'd only got married two years previous, but the implications were enormous. If I hadn't had that old-fashioned piece of paper, I would have been facing homelessness and would have lost a large chunk of my life savings due to the way we're structured the house ownership and our business.

It also meant I received bereavement benefit and was automatically a pension beneficiary. We were only married for two years, but I received those MUCH needed funds and wouldn't have had we been cohabiting for twenty years.

I'm in another relationship now and nowhere near that kind of stage. My boyfriend "doesn't believe" in marriage, which to me is a bit like not believing in a mortgage. You can not agree with it, but its legal implications are undeniable. Having had the experience I've had, I wouldn't make any kind of financial commitment without having it backed up with a legal safety net, whether that's marriage or not. To me, it seems a bit idiotic to have multiple contracts drafted and signed when the one marriage contract does it all, but to be honest I've not looked into it at this stage and I may well find that at my stage of life it benefits me more to stay unmarried.

You can be devoted to each other and not get married. You can marry someone and despise them. I'd only ever want to get married to someone I was devoted to, but the two things don't necessarily go hand in hand. The only certainty and the only fact is that whether you adore each other or not, the legal consequences of marriage still stand, no matter what.

Knowing what I know from being widowed, I don't know that I'd take the risk of, say, buying a house with someone without being married to them. My advice to anyone would be to do what you want, but do it with all the facts. Don't make the mistake of getting swept up in the romance of making a commitment, having a family, buying a house, without also knowing what your legal and financial safety net options are and choosing them carefully.

When I got married there was no gain to me, I was in the stronger financial position but I wanted to be legally recognised as a family unit when kids came along and I also wanted the protection for my husband should anything happen to me.