… to wonder why people continue having more children if they cannot cope with the ones that they already have?

[NetflixMom21]

… or am I just being extremely judgemental?

A couple of recent interactions and conversations with people that I know has got me thinking about this. In one situation; the person in question already has a couple of children plus a couple of stepchildren which they have 50% of the time, they are always complaining of having no money, they have openly said that they max out their credit cards to survive and pay their bills every month and are in a lot of debt because of it… now they have just announced that they are having another child.

In the second situation; the person in question has 5 children. The first child was born with a severe disability and they were told that it could possibly be genetic and that if they had anymore children, those children could have a disability too. The second child was also born with a disability, but not as severe as the first. The person then went onto having 3 more children, of which, another child has a similar disability to the first 2. So 3 out of 5 children are disabled. This person now admits that they are unable to cope and it massively impacts on the care that they are able to give their children.

In the third situation; someone that I know was born with cystic fibrosis (they are the first born child of the family). They nearly died as a young child and was only just about saved by a lung transplant which they were incredibly lucky to get. The parents have gone on to have more and more children, even though they know that they have the gene for cystic fibrosis and any child that they have may be born with it too and after watching how badly their first child has suffered. Well another child has been born with it, and suffers horrendously already (they are reception/year 1 age) and unless they receive a lung transplant, they might not even make it to a teenager.

My own situation; I have a progressive disability myself and also a child that has a disability. I know that I will never have anymore children (I am looking into surgical procedures to ensure this) because I know that firstly, I will not be able to cope with my own illness and that is not fair on the child especially as I know that there is a possibility of me having another child with a disability, and secondly; I do not know how much independence my child will go onto have as a teenager and adult, and if I had another child, it would impact on the level of care that I am able provide for my child and that isn’t fair on them.

AIBU to wonder why people in these situations continue having more and more children rather than focusing on the ones that they have, and then constantly complain of being unable to cope?!

I don't think it's judgemental to wonder why people do this. I wouldn't because it would make things to difficult from me and for everyone in my family. I think life can be difficult enough as it is and I wouldn't want to risk adding extra difficulties to my family set up.

I agree with you op in situations where people don’t consider their financial limitations. It seems madness to add to the financial stress by adding more children to your family when you can’t afford the ones you already have. We ruled out a 3rd on the basis we would have to compromise the opportunities we could offer our first 2 if we went ahead.

I absolutely do judge parents who have more children than they can cope with. I don’t mean people who have had a run of financial hardship, poor mental health having been fine previously and likely to be able to be fine again with some support.

I mean people who outright just cannot cope with being parents, irrespective of the number of children they have.

I had a child with a man who it turned out wasn’t a very good husband. He is a better father for me leaving him than he would have been had I stayed. I didn’t have a child with a long term partner because I knew it would just be history repeating itself. I left him in the end. I would absolutely have loved to have had a second child, but the circumstances were not what I seemed suitable either time and I think, even though I am not yet 34, the ship has sailed. However I take comfort in knowing I considered what was right for my very real child, not the pie in the sky hypothetical one.

YANBU

I think those disagreeing haven’t met the type of people you are talking about.

Some people can genuinely not afford to feed themselves and the children they’ve already got (which isn’t their fault) but then they say they’re trying for a new baby.

Lots of people will say they have another baby to get more money but I can’t see how a few extra quid in tax credits or CB is going to make it affordable.

Someone I know has just been served an eviction notice as the LL is selling - she’s now decided it’s the right time to start trying to a baby

You have been slammed for being judgemental but I do get why you wonder why people make their lives incredibly difficult when they could make things easier. Perhaps the lack of forward planning. Hoping things may get better. Who knows. A baby 'seems' easy but that baby becomes a child then adult with maybe lifelong care requirements and we all age so can become more and more difficult.

There are so many children taken into care and often its's a repeat of what their own parents did, the same choices and mistakes and the trap that is for some so difficult to escape from. It's a massively complicated thing to understand I think.

@Florenz

The government needs to promote not having kids more than they do having kids. Maybe provide financial incentives for women not to have children.

At the very least we need to get rid of the idea that having children is some sort of primitive urge that is, for women especially, out of our control. It’s sex not children that is the urge. Most people want a sex life without being continuously at risk of having children.

Perhaps we should be more judgy about this, perhaps if we did there would be fewer occasions of child neglect. I have no idea why people do it, something missing in themselves I assume, that means a desire for a big family over the reality of the situation. Obviously if you can afford financially but way more importantly emotionally to support a big family than that's great but it seems lots of people use a new baby to fix things either in themselves or their partnerships.

My mum "doesn't like kids" but had 4 of them:

1. She literally gave up into social services and they grew up in foster care
2. Me. Who lived with grandparents until mum had...
3. Who was looked after exclusively by me, after I was drafted in to provide childcare. And then...
4. Born 14 months after 3. Leaving me to care for 2 babies while I'm 9 years old myself.

Why did she do it? My dad liked kids.

[quote LegMeChicken]@Pyri
Everything is a slippery slope if you extend it far enough.
‘Offering’ people the choice, they’re free not to take it. Isn’t the same as forcing them to do things. ‘Having a say’ is forcing people to do things.

Your argument is the same made for abortions. People thought that offering girls the choice would lead to a raft of baby killing blah2.[/quote]
It’s not really the same argument at all

The tax system works because we all pay a proportion in to the pot and then the people who need it most get things from that pot. I don’t like the idea that you’re saying that just because we pay for disabled people from the pot of tax we should have a say on whether people reproduce. It’s horrible.

On the surface it does seem bonkers. However I have 2 kids. 2 maternity leaves later , reduced hours due to flexibility working, amd such a reduction in freedom I can honestly say that as much as we love them children are boring, isolating and lonely and leave you feeling so detached from life at times that I can honestly see why it would be easier to just have another child than it would be to fight my way back to the kind.if adult life I want when everyone else around you has had years of a head start in getting there.

Not saying I'd do it but I think I understand some of the reasons why

I think this kind of behaviour has been nipped in the bud by the maximum of two children that you can receive benefits for now, back in the day seeing somebody who could barely get dressed themselves with 3 to 4 children with a very common occurrence.

When did we, as a society, decide that judgement was a bad thing and that we should never judge anyone for their choices and behaviour?
I actually think a bit of judgement is a good thing and can prevent people from behaving in anti social ways and making decisions that affect the rest of society badly. Maybe if there was a bit more judgement around, then there wouldn't be so many feckless men walking away without a second glance from families they have created. Maybe there wouldn't be so many children whose main source of parenting is an ipad etc etc

@Easilydiscardthisone

To be honest OP I often wonder the same. Not judge, but wonder.

My son has autism, suspected adhd (won’t diagnose til he is 6 in a few months), sensory processing disorder, attachment issues, and suspected FASD. He is happy and physically health my but it is exhausting and being his carer is a full time job. He can’t go to school full time as he cannot cope. I drown in paperwork and meetings. I work full time and me and my partner (not his dad) and thankfully financially secure and we are able to give him a really good life even if it is a struggle. But I absolutely would not have another because it would push me over the edge, and I see so many people around me with children similar to my son who then go on to have more and I wonder how they can possibly give their child everything they need if they’re doing it.

It sounds horrible. And I’m sure they ARE giving them everything they need. But I don’t understand how.

FASD suspected, did you adopt him from a young age so unsure of early history? It's more common that people think.

@mam0918
It’s impossible to comment on ‘all disabled people’.
My disability makes life difficult, but it’s certainly worth living. You thinks that yours js the same. Happy days.

However I have seen people for whom it’s a living hell. Huntington’s diseases for example. It breaks my heart. I wouldn’t want to see anybody suffer through that again. And most parents think the same.

All I’m saying is that it should be socially acceptable for people to at least think about it. If you already have two and find it difficult to cope. Why do you want to have another? It should be explored.

Btw I’m well aware that any totalitarian regime etc would apply to people like me too. So I’m not just sitting on an ivory tower saying ‘oh just nuke them all’.

This is probably a useless discussion anywya because it’s only a ‘few’ who think like this… most don’t want kids to suffer. In my opinion I don’t ‘suffer’. But I only have mild disabilities. I can’t compare to someone who lives in severe pain every day.

It is judgemental but so what? We all judge others every day for what we might see as their poor choices. People do what they like, such as have more children than they can care for/afford, eat too much, drink too much, take drugs etc. Their choice, yes, except that other people who didn't make such choices end up paying for it via benefits, NHS, taxes etc, so yes of course we judge.

@NetflixMom21 if you do want more children with no disability have you looked into pre-implantation genetic diagnosis (PGD) ? Sorry if I overstep, but I knew of a couple who would have wanted children but chose not to due to a genetic condition and only learnt about PGD too late in their life ☹️

I agree with you.
The truth is people who knowingly act irresponsibly are going to be judged, and it's a good thing people with OK judgement outnumber those without it or we'd all have a huge problem.

Echoing the Love Babies Loathe Kids philosophy of some parents. It’s not a class thing, either, as any SW will tell you.

A lot of people genuinely think having a baby is an achievement. Which it is, if you’re not doing anything else much. Some believe the baby will fix their life.

Both sexes get praise, attention and excitement for themselves that stops fast after the birth.

Parents are left with a smelly, shrieky expensive human who stops them going out. One parent bolts, the other one draws on no experience at all to cope. Add drugs and a bad upbringing. Then add SS.

Parents get the message the Baby Fix hasn’t worked, so they try it again. And again.

You can see how it doesn’t end well. I got shat on for saying this on MN once, but most women who have children removed in the UK have low IQs.

No one needs to be a genius to raise a child, but there’s a level of daily coping skills beneath which it’s not a great idea without support. Support means money.

The middle classes buy childcare. If you haven’t been brought up right/at all yourself, and you can’t pay a nanny, it’s doubly difficult.

In a nutshell, the middle classes deal with bad parents by paying substitutes - other people can’t.

It all boils down to emotional intellligence, not everyone has the cognitive ability to look at their lives, properly look, and make good choices.

I’m not saying it is anything to do with me, but it drives me nuts hearing people constantly complain that they can’t cope with their situations… when they have created the situations for themselves in these circumstances!
My friend got a new job after 2 years being unemployed and she hated it, it properly dragged her down but she didn't tell us because she didn't feel it was something she could vent about after venting to us about not having a job. Just because people wade through a daily grind and give out about it doesn't mean they hate either their lot in life or their kids

Ignore anyone having a go at you for being "judgemental." We all have every right to be as judgemental as we want to be in the privacy of our own mind. I also agree you, some people are so irresponsible it's mind boggling.

@CHIRIBAYA

For some their identity could be bound up in being the caregiver, afterall, our chidren give us their unconditional love and trust and this can be addictive for someone who lacks internal love and trust of self. The one who sacrifices all, holds the family together, take on the heroic effort of managing the chaos, where the partner is the complete opposite (and the more useless they are the more powerful we feel) this is a huge boost to self-worth. Sadly, lurking underneath this selfless caretaker is a strong need for control and avoidance of ones own deeper needs.

I completely agree @CHIRIBAYA

Some people's religious beliefs don't allow them the luxury of either contraception or abortion.

Some are raped within the marriage.

Some may be unable to plan for the future, connect cause and effect, and so on.

Some may feel life is hard enough already. Why not add another? If you have five, six doesn't seem so unthinkable.

Some really like being pregnant and having a baby.

Some have a romanticised idea of life in a big family with many happy siblings all looking after and playing with each other.

If your life is shit, a lovely baby probably seems like a good distraction.

I don’t think these conversations are none of our business - unfortunately it’s tax payers money that has to fund these children’s school places, NHS treatment, maternity leave for the mother, free school meals if eligible etc. and the list goes on. It’s a whole society problem when people have children they can’t care for.

I agree with you OP. All things being well I would have loved another child but you've got to do your very best for the child you already have!