… to wonder why people continue having more children if they cannot cope with the ones that they already have?

[NetflixMom21]

… or am I just being extremely judgemental?

A couple of recent interactions and conversations with people that I know has got me thinking about this. In one situation; the person in question already has a couple of children plus a couple of stepchildren which they have 50% of the time, they are always complaining of having no money, they have openly said that they max out their credit cards to survive and pay their bills every month and are in a lot of debt because of it… now they have just announced that they are having another child.

In the second situation; the person in question has 5 children. The first child was born with a severe disability and they were told that it could possibly be genetic and that if they had anymore children, those children could have a disability too. The second child was also born with a disability, but not as severe as the first. The person then went onto having 3 more children, of which, another child has a similar disability to the first 2. So 3 out of 5 children are disabled. This person now admits that they are unable to cope and it massively impacts on the care that they are able to give their children.

In the third situation; someone that I know was born with cystic fibrosis (they are the first born child of the family). They nearly died as a young child and was only just about saved by a lung transplant which they were incredibly lucky to get. The parents have gone on to have more and more children, even though they know that they have the gene for cystic fibrosis and any child that they have may be born with it too and after watching how badly their first child has suffered. Well another child has been born with it, and suffers horrendously already (they are reception/year 1 age) and unless they receive a lung transplant, they might not even make it to a teenager.

My own situation; I have a progressive disability myself and also a child that has a disability. I know that I will never have anymore children (I am looking into surgical procedures to ensure this) because I know that firstly, I will not be able to cope with my own illness and that is not fair on the child especially as I know that there is a possibility of me having another child with a disability, and secondly; I do not know how much independence my child will go onto have as a teenager and adult, and if I had another child, it would impact on the level of care that I am able provide for my child and that isn’t fair on them.

AIBU to wonder why people in these situations continue having more and more children rather than focusing on the ones that they have, and then constantly complain of being unable to cope?!

I would argue that people with poor prospects and little agency over their lives don't have the same incentive (and possibly ability) to plan their lives in the same way that those that are financially stable do.

^ I agree. It's like some people just don't plan for their financial future either. It's not on their radar because they haven't had the same experiences or privileges to even know it's necessary.

DS was at nursery with a kid who was the 7th child of 8. The mum went on to have a ninth. Neither she nor her partner appeared to pay much attention to children 1-7, and the older children appeared to look after the younger ones. I sometimes wonder how many more babies she had. They seemed to love babies, but not be all that bothered about actual children. I did judge.

But to answer your question - I asked the same to my mum when I was little and wondering why people in poor countries who were starving still had children. "To give them hope and something to love"

A good answer for a child, I suppose, with a grain of truth, but mainly because in many of those countries, women have little status, other than that of being a mother, and limited access to reliable contraception.

I used to work with Health Visitors.

They used to spend 99% of their time dealing with 1% of their caseload.

These were families that drank, smoked, had multiple enuretic children, changed partners regularly (and had children with them), filthy houses, no parenting skills, gave the kids a bowl of smarties for breakfast, a beefburger in a bun was 'Sunday Lunch'.

They had help claiming benefits, advice on contraception, input from Social Services but despite this most of them had had at least one child taken off them by Social Services.

When one family was refused a biggest house because they were pregnant they burned their house down.

I'm glad I wasn't responsible for trying to sort these people out.

Your mistake is thinking about this purely logically and practically.

But for a lot of people, having children is not about logic and what's practical. We are animals, same as every other species, with a biological urge to reproduce that is often a higher priority for reasons that have nothing to do with logic. 🤷‍♀️

(Urge as a species. I am aware that some individuals within any species cannot or do not reproduce.)

@Malibuismysecrethome

I don’t believe you should bring children into the world to suffer so I agree with you. Especially if you could pass on life-limiting, painful conditions.

Totally agree with this. Don't care how judgey I sound. The needs of the already living outweigh the possible needs of those yet to be born.

Speaking bluntly, a lot of people enjoy and manage the baby stage well, but lose interest or don't want to cope with children.

It's not even that I judge, I don't get it. It's like asking why would you hit your toe with a hammer. I love my two but know I couldn't cope with any more, not to mention the thought of being pregnant again.

I assume for some people what many of us see as chaotic is their normal.

I wouldnt call you judgemental. Of course if these people off load and moan to you it is going to give you thoughts and emotions.

I think they are just not smart enough/strong enough/ dont feel enough in control to face decisions.

@ArcheryAnnie

DS was at nursery with a kid who was the 7th child of 8. The mum went on to have a ninth. Neither she nor her partner appeared to pay much attention to children 1-7, and the older children appeared to look after the younger ones. I sometimes wonder how many more babies she had. They seemed to love babies, but not be all that bothered about actual children. I did judge.

I’ve known this. These women love the helpless infant stage but once the baby becomes a demanding toddler with a will of their own they lose interest/see them as a nuisance.

I recently read an article about poverty and hopelessness in a town North of Manchester. Single parents on Benefits, unemployed youths, drugs, all the usual stuff.
One brave stepped forward with the comment "stop f*ing have multiple kids with multiple feckless lads who have no intention of paying for them and stop complaining about the shitty council flat that you have been provided with by the taxpayers who are feeding your kids"
Naturally this poor man was trolled to kingdom come and back again.

But to answer your question - I asked the same to my mum when I was little and wondering why people in poor countries who were starving still had children. "To give them hope and something to love"

I think you'll find, that those women had no access to Birth Control and had absolutely no choice as to whether they were subjected to sex and rape.

@WhatNoRaisins

It's not even that I judge, I don't get it. It's like asking why would you hit your toe with a hammer. I love my two but know I couldn't cope with any more, not to mention the thought of being pregnant again.

I assume for some people what many of us see as chaotic is their normal.

Yes exactly. I have two children and that suits me. I know if I had more, I'd regret it so I don't. I hate chaos, stress, mess... looking after kids is hard. I don't understand why anyone wants to make their life harder

It's not your business or place to judge, nor mine. Except when tbe parents of 3 or 4 or 5 children can't cope and expects other people (family, friends, neighbours) to help with childcare. If I wanted to juggle 3 of your children plus 2 of my own I would have had more dc.

YANBU! SIL moans about childcare costs and how difficult it is with 3 under 4 as though it wasn’t her choice at all. Also people who got pregnant during the pandemic only to complain about being pregnant during a pandemic.
Child care should be cheaper and the way pregnant women were treated was wrong but they don’t acknowledge that they chose to have a baby/babies in these circumstances.

Yes you are being judgemental.

I am too, privately. In the same circumstances, I probably wouldn't have chosen to go on and have further children.

But I don't have and don't want to live in a world where I have any control over the reproductive choices of others.
So I would never openly comment or criticise someone for them.

I agree with you. Just had a Facebook watch thing pop up with some mum with 7 kids expect her 8 year old to help with all the parenting jobs and I had exactly the same thought.

Totally agree OP but wouldn't say that to any particular person. If that makes me judgemental, so be it.

I worked with a girl who had a healthy son. Since then both her and her DH had cousins diagnosed with CF. They went for testing and discovered both were carriers so there was a 1 in 4 chance and they went on to have another child. I would never openly discuss this (in a non anonymous forum) but I would have not made the same decision as them.

I also have a friend who has had 4 children in 4 years and has a uterine prolapse and severe anemia requiring multiple transfusions through her pregnancy. She was told after number 2 that she should at a minimum give her body a rest for 2 years between pregnancies but their official recommendation would be to stop having children. The last baby was born very early as they stopped growing and needed some help at first. I guess its easy for me to judge (no contraception in 10 years and have only ever made 2 babies) but if my health was at risk there's no way my DH would happily agree to a plan to make more even in my heights of baby craziness.

You had a child even though you have a disability

It may well be judgemental but I do think the instances you have raised centre around concern for the child due to the extreme likelihood of neglect which IMO is a good reason to be judgemental. There is a difference between struggling to cope for a few months/year which think most families go through at some point and willfully choosing to ignore the impact of having more children.
It is sad though as I wouldn’t want to stop people having the family they want also.

Just to add SIL isn’t poor, uneducated and had good career prospects the 3 kids were all planned and wanted but now it’s endless complaining as though they appeared out of nowhere.

Most terminations are due to contraceptive failure caused unplanned pregnancy and not all women choose to terminate for religious or personal reasons. You are basing your judgement on two things. One of which does not exist- the ability to control whether you get pregnant or not. And the second being the assumption that all women are feee to choose to terminate an unplanned pregnancy for economic/care coping reasons.

I've no idea why some posters trot out the "you're judgmental" line. Everyone is allowed to form an opinion on anything, at any time that they like. What matters more, is that they don't say these things to people's faces. But unless you're brain dead, of course you will have these internal thoughts and judgments. Posting them here anonymously hurts no one.

I agree with you Op. I know that some people find themselves in changed circumstances. That I don't judge whatsoever, because it can't be planned for.

However, when people keep making decisions that negatively impact their lives and those of their children, I do wonder why that is? What's the thought process there?

I only had 2 children. Any more, I just don't think I could have coped with. So, when I see people with 5/6/7/8 kids, I just think, "wow that's not for me, how do you cope, and manage to attend to all of those needs". I think perhaps I'm too selfish. Some parents do it well and love it, some others not so much.

Ditto to having another dog. Ours died about 4 years ago, and I don't want the commitment of another one. I want to retire very early in about 5 years time, so I don't want a dog on my hands who maybe would have another 8 years left to live.

Someone I know, had 6 kids and 2 massive dogs, all squished in to a tiny house. My idea of hell. Maybe not hers (and to be fair she didn't moan?.

My friend, on the other hand, has a stressful job, 2 children who are a handful, and she moaned constantly about how stressed she was....then she started to add a menagerie of animals in to the mix. I mean WHY???