… to wonder why people continue having more children if they cannot cope with the ones that they already have?

[NetflixMom21]

… or am I just being extremely judgemental?

A couple of recent interactions and conversations with people that I know has got me thinking about this. In one situation; the person in question already has a couple of children plus a couple of stepchildren which they have 50% of the time, they are always complaining of having no money, they have openly said that they max out their credit cards to survive and pay their bills every month and are in a lot of debt because of it… now they have just announced that they are having another child.

In the second situation; the person in question has 5 children. The first child was born with a severe disability and they were told that it could possibly be genetic and that if they had anymore children, those children could have a disability too. The second child was also born with a disability, but not as severe as the first. The person then went onto having 3 more children, of which, another child has a similar disability to the first 2. So 3 out of 5 children are disabled. This person now admits that they are unable to cope and it massively impacts on the care that they are able to give their children.

In the third situation; someone that I know was born with cystic fibrosis (they are the first born child of the family). They nearly died as a young child and was only just about saved by a lung transplant which they were incredibly lucky to get. The parents have gone on to have more and more children, even though they know that they have the gene for cystic fibrosis and any child that they have may be born with it too and after watching how badly their first child has suffered. Well another child has been born with it, and suffers horrendously already (they are reception/year 1 age) and unless they receive a lung transplant, they might not even make it to a teenager.

My own situation; I have a progressive disability myself and also a child that has a disability. I know that I will never have anymore children (I am looking into surgical procedures to ensure this) because I know that firstly, I will not be able to cope with my own illness and that is not fair on the child especially as I know that there is a possibility of me having another child with a disability, and secondly; I do not know how much independence my child will go onto have as a teenager and adult, and if I had another child, it would impact on the level of care that I am able provide for my child and that isn’t fair on them.

AIBU to wonder why people in these situations continue having more and more children rather than focusing on the ones that they have, and then constantly complain of being unable to cope?!

@JuliaSways

or am I just being extremely judgemental?

You answered your own question.

Well there is plenty to be judgemental about.

I don’t think I could knowingly bring a child into existence who had a high chance of an impaired or limited life. Wouldn’t be able to look them in the eye and say “I chose this for you”.

I had an abusive childhood and I think at one point I wanted to have a child almost as a “get it right for someone else” almost like a second chance, becoming a mother would transform me into a better person. However after therapy the desire to have a kid dropped off. I ended up having one anyway, realised that while i love her to bits I don’t enjoy parenting much, its hard and consuming and often suffocating and there is some evidence that people with higher scores on adverse childhood events struggle more with parenting (should be obvious really).

What I don’t get is people who are clearly miserable as parents having more. I’ve stopped at one because I think I can be a decent parent to one despite all my flaws but I damn well know I couldn’t to anymore than that. I mean if you try something once and think “ooh this is a bit hard and I’m not sure i’m enjoying this” wouldn’t you just not do it again.

I do think some people believe a baby cements a relationship. Having a baby “ties” someone to them, hope this one sticks around. But tbh if it had already happened to me once (been left holding the baby) I absolutely would not be doing that again.

I do think some people believe a baby cements a relationship.

As well as believing it’s not a proper relationship until/unless they have a baby together, regardless of how many they already have from previous relationships.

I wonder if holding up the nuclear family as ideal backfires on some people and they keep on searching for that new relationship and baby that gives their existing child that "happy ever after"

@MabelsApron I'm so sorry your work colleague was so utterly thoughtless.
I'd say you are a mother, in your essence. I believe the word 'mother' can be a verb as well as a noun. As we can see from this thread, there are many women who are physically mothers, but are disastrous. There are also many women who are ' mothers' through and through; born nurturers, who have not given birth. I've heard the term 'childless mothers' before, and think it's very accurate. We practice mothering, every time we nurture. As stated upthread, I think in some cases, not getting pregnant, when circumstances aren't ideal, is very nurturing.
Have you heard of Gateway Women? An organisation for childless-not-by-choice women. I think you might find it helpful and comforting.
I wish you so happiness and peace in your life ❤️

I'm afraid I judge as well. Recently with the increase in prices on everything I have seen interviews with large families where they are struggling to feed their children. For example on news this week family of 5 kids where only the father worked in a NMW job. I appreciate that circumstances can change in an instance but I do think there needs to be some sort of planning eg when you are thinking of baby number 3,4,5...if I lost my job could I still afford to feed us etc? For most people the answer is no.

I am a single parent of one child but I know that I can manage to carry us despite living costs increases. I work full-time and can potentially go for a higher paying job if it comes to it.

Also I've noticed on some FB groups I am on where people donate stuff you have big families around Christmas time asking for money and toys. Again, I think some form of planning is needed. If you can't afford to look after five children and give them gifts, however small, for birthday and Christmas, you really need to consider the wisdom in it.

Honestly I'm agog at loads of peoples life choices. I have two friends who both had babies with new partners after dating a really short time before they really knew them. (Months) Both men have turned out to be total deadbeats and their fabulous kids have these men in their lives for ever adding nothing but hurt.
I was shocked at the time when friends told me they were ttc but ultimately it's not my place to intervere.
They complain to me constantly about lack of contact and Maintenance and the unfairness of it ( which it is) but I often wonder why on earth they chose to have babies with men they barely knew and had never lived with.

I judge those who dodge their responsibilities, or treat the child's mother or father badly. One of them is our Prime Minister, another is (unless convicted of the charges against him) manager of the Welsh football team.

I definitely judge the men as much as I do the women in these situations.

Both can take charge of their own contraception if they want to.

I feel for those women in abusive situations though, who cannot say no or get out of it.

It’s the whole “someone else will pay for me” attitude

@Joy247

Yes, I would like to hear the stories of women who were on that now or never precipice and then didn't take the leap, carried on with their life and then how they found fulfilment elsewhere and how their life is now. I guess the media doesn't like the story of forty something woman without a husband or children happier than she's ever been since she created/discovered/produced/researched..........x,y&z

why should the woman have to create/discover/produce/research to be deemed fulfilled and "equal" to married with children? What about being a skilled and empathetic hairdresser? A wonderful customer service officer in a local government office ?( I am looking at YOU wonderful ladies who sorted out my green bin collection problems) A kind and careful dental hygienist?

@WanderingFruitWonderer This moved me to tears, thank you so much.

Unless you've had say a very influential childless aunt or family friend you probably haven't had much exposure to women in this situation

The two main female role models in my childhood were my mother (4 kids by choice as all she ever wanted was to be a mum, but DV and booze and my awful dad made her life pretty grim) and one of my aunts (no kids by choice, unmarried, not much education but wildly successful and independent and happy). I grew up assuming I would be child free, absolutely no question, until a sort of hormone burst in my twenties made me reconsider. I had DS in my late 30s.

I will be grateful to that aunt to the ends of my days for giving me options, just by existing. (Though she did so much more for me than just exist!)

As a nurse I’ve seen several families go through the heartbreak of losing 2-3 children due to genetic disorders. They come in again with the next one, they keep going in the hope they might have a healthy child. It’s so sad.

Why should anyone be judged for being childless? I sniff secret jealousy, esp from people who don’t much like parenting.

My mum was like this. She had her first child in a DV relationship. I understand her having him as she wanted a baby and maybe thought her husband would change. However, she then went on to have another child after realising her husband was not only violent to her, but also to her first son. Surprise surprise, her husband became violent with her, baby one and then baby 2. She then decided to stay in relationship and have baby 3. He punched her in the stomach and she lost the baby. By this point they were struggling financially and my mum was struggling with raising the 2 boys and having a shit partner.

For some reason I will never fathom, she then chose to have me. When I was about 5 she left her violent husband. All I heard throughout my childhood was 'i wish I'd never had kids' and how hard it all was, and how if she had her time again she wouldn't have had any.

I can understand her having baby number 1. I can almost understand baby number 2 - she says she had him so baby 1 would have a buddy and a friend. But I will never understand why she had me. It wasn't a mistake. She says I was planned

People should think a bit more before they have kids. If they regret it, they definitely shouldn't tell the kid that. My lovely mum has now passed away, but I will never forget how much of a burden I felt and what a bad mum she was at times, even though not really her fault as she struggled with her own demons. Just wish people with think that babies grow up into adults. Your babies are for life. If you are not going to be able to manage that responsibility, don't have them

^Goodsoup* the pain and suffering little children get my heartache not the selfish parents bringing more children into the world for their own selfishness. How absolutely appalling to bring a child into the world knowing is will almost certainly
have a short painful life.

The thing is, being a mother is deified, and therefore mothers are not allowed to be human.

So, you have women who would love to be mothers, being thought “less than” because they couldn’t conceive.

Then, women who are mothers, who are held to impossibly high standards because it’s based on them sublimating their own lives to the rearing of children.

The third group, women who actually choose to not have children, are seen as abnormal, and either subhuman, or don’t know their own minds and will regret it until their dying days.

So, to summarise, it’s all misogyny, and based on woman only being of use as a vessel and then handmaiden to future generations.

I have only just thought of it this way, but it seems very clear now I’ve written it. How utterly depressing.

[quote mnetting]@mam0918 I also have a disability and resent having a life forced on me that I'm now forced to "earn" in a workforce designed BY neurotypical people FOR neurotypical people because nobody owes me a living in this world I can't function in, even if I didn't ask or want it.

Everyone around me trying to force me to find ways to be like someone without my condition so I can forcefully fit in a box and earn my life the way society expects.

My brain isn't wired like everyone else's so I have to find ways to be like everyone else so I can survive in this world that wasn't designed for people with my condition.

I wouldn't mind if I had a physical disability then I could just be me but when you have a hidden disability you're expected to keep it hidden find ways to function in a world you can't function in and keep up with everyone else.
I didn't ask for this and if someone had said here's a life you can live it but you'll have ADHD I'd have said no thank you I won't suffer that life.
A lifetime is a long time when you're just trying to get through it.
In fact the only thing that gets me through is knowing I won't be here forever and each day I get through is another less.[/quote]

@mnetting this post spoke to me so much. I feel exactly the same, I have ADHD and it ruins my life. I often think the same, each day is a day closer to death 💖

I agree there was a woman local to me who kept having kids.She seemed to lose her ability to cope and all her children were taken into care. Turns out they were all living in squalor landlord had a really hard job putting everything right.