… to wonder why people continue having more children if they cannot cope with the ones that they already have?

[NetflixMom21]

… or am I just being extremely judgemental?

A couple of recent interactions and conversations with people that I know has got me thinking about this. In one situation; the person in question already has a couple of children plus a couple of stepchildren which they have 50% of the time, they are always complaining of having no money, they have openly said that they max out their credit cards to survive and pay their bills every month and are in a lot of debt because of it… now they have just announced that they are having another child.

In the second situation; the person in question has 5 children. The first child was born with a severe disability and they were told that it could possibly be genetic and that if they had anymore children, those children could have a disability too. The second child was also born with a disability, but not as severe as the first. The person then went onto having 3 more children, of which, another child has a similar disability to the first 2. So 3 out of 5 children are disabled. This person now admits that they are unable to cope and it massively impacts on the care that they are able to give their children.

In the third situation; someone that I know was born with cystic fibrosis (they are the first born child of the family). They nearly died as a young child and was only just about saved by a lung transplant which they were incredibly lucky to get. The parents have gone on to have more and more children, even though they know that they have the gene for cystic fibrosis and any child that they have may be born with it too and after watching how badly their first child has suffered. Well another child has been born with it, and suffers horrendously already (they are reception/year 1 age) and unless they receive a lung transplant, they might not even make it to a teenager.

My own situation; I have a progressive disability myself and also a child that has a disability. I know that I will never have anymore children (I am looking into surgical procedures to ensure this) because I know that firstly, I will not be able to cope with my own illness and that is not fair on the child especially as I know that there is a possibility of me having another child with a disability, and secondly; I do not know how much independence my child will go onto have as a teenager and adult, and if I had another child, it would impact on the level of care that I am able provide for my child and that isn’t fair on them.

AIBU to wonder why people in these situations continue having more and more children rather than focusing on the ones that they have, and then constantly complain of being unable to cope?!

@Someonemustknowtheanswer

I agree. Nobody has the right to have a child. Think about the quality of life your hypothetical children will have and be honest with yourself. But people are selfish and stupid. We can access terminations in the country - use them.

It’s interesting- someone on this thread said that from their personal experiences accessing terminations wasn’t very easily done in this country. That is appalling. Why is it difficult to access terminations?

@RampantIvy

So many children grow up in dysfunctional family situations. I guess that education could help break the pattern?

Yes, that was my query

@SockFluffInTheBath

'I trained in a deprived inner city area so to me it was always a fundamental part of the job. It’s draining though and it takes time, confidence and resilience.'

So do teachers need better/different training to deal with this?

MrsBerthaRochester

Ah yes lets decide who we think is fit or deserving of having children. Why dont we just round up all disabled people and....
Lot of nazi cunts on this thread“

No. If you’re struggling to feed/adequately house/dress/cope mentally with two, you don’t bring a third into the world.

Why would you willingly make life even worse for the children you already have?

@MrsBerthaRochester

'Ah yes lets decide who we think is fit or deserving of having children. Why dont we just round up all disabled people and....
Lot of nazi cunts on this thread.'

No-one suggested that eugenics was OK.

Being insulting isn't progressing the discussion

I wouldn't mind if I had a physical disability then I could just be me

I couldn't let this go, @mnetting. I currently have a portfolio of physical disabilities, plus an invisible disability, and while I am just "being me", the pain and limitations frequently make me wish I was someone else.

Because some people are very irresponsible. They want what they want, so they do it.

@Thesefeetaremadeforwalking

So do teachers need better/different training to deal with this? possibly, I would say it depends on your personal experience. I grew up in a shitty part of a city and had people push me. I did my pgce in a shitty part of a different city and my main school was full of the kind of endlessly dedicated teachers doing 80hrs a week to make sure every child was covered. That’s not hyperbole, that’s what it takes. Constantly grating against the students’ inbuilt self-doubt and self-imposed limitations is hard, it gets you down but you have to be relentless because if you’re not doing it then who will be? I don’t expect a few lectures on a naice pgce has the same effect as seeing it- kids coming in late because they have to get their younger siblings up, fed, dressed and off to school because no one else will, or telling you their career plan is to sell drugs because that’s how you get a nice car and pussy, or that they want a baby do someone loves them…

@Timeforanewoneofthese you are assuming that a lot of these things can be taught in a classroom setting. But the truth is that if you are brought up in a disfunctional family, the daily experience of that is going to outweigh a couple of hours being taught about healthy relationships in Y13.

Plus, having a disfunctional family is actually exhausting and often chaotic. So the children who most need these teaching are the ones least likely to be able to find the headspace to absorb the lessons. They are literally in survival mode, often carers or distracted thinking about where the next meal is coming from or what they may face when they get home from school that evening. They need respite and support first, as do their parents, to not be in crisis before any learning can occur.

@User34352515

But to answer your question - I asked the same to my mum when I was little and wondering why people in poor countries who were starving still had children. "To give them hope and something to love

Hate to be "that person" but this is a very simplistic and western view of developing countries (being from one myself). It's obvious to everyone that you can continue loving the children you have which is why most planned families consists of 1-3 children. Having more kids after that is astronomically harder in developing countries and and the chances of each one having a good life sinks dramatically.

Overpopulation in developing countries is due to lack of reliable contraception, lack of education, virtually no female rights, no access to termination options and sadly very often rape within the marriage. It's a horrific situation that many women cannot get themselves out of so tearing up at the fact that women (and teenage girls) below the poverty line keep popping out babies "to give them hope and love" is quite cringy tbh.

Agreed

I think the same at times OP, of good friends and family too. My health means we have stopped at 1 because, combined with their circumstances, I know rationally we could not cope well with more. I feel annoyed having other’s self induced drama inflicted on me when I have been conscientious myself.

However, now I’m at the end of my fertile days, the urge to try for more is overwhelming at times - it’s an extreme thirst, no other way to describe it. Plus there is always that glimmer of “maybe we would get lucky, maybe it would go better than we suspect” - am sure genetic carriers think the same (and want more kids because they know they ah lose those they have). And the guilt of having a child who at times is very clear he would love a sibling.

Ultimately, there is no rational reason to have a child. We are animals hardwired with an irrational urge to procreate. Emotions and ethics are also incredibly complex at times.

But that also doesn’t mean you’re wrong for inwardly wanting to scream at people!

Totally agree with you! Baffles me too!!

@ToxicBuns

YANBU. OP I completely agree with you. I hate (yes HATE) it when you see a person with a stroller with a kid in it bawling it's eyes out then alongside that more kids just slightly older than the one in the stroller also usually bawling. And then you have the "parent" an orange monstrosity with a cottage loaf on her head fag or vape in one hand, phone in the other hand and visibly pregnant again shouting and screaming at the poor bloody children whilst yammering in the phone between drags or a rat faced looking, pigeon chested tosser with grey tracksuit bottoms on lumbering along also shouting obscenities at the poor blood children. 😳

“…an orange monstrosity with a cottage loaf on her head…” can’t wait til I can use that as an insult 😂😂😂😂

@SockFluffInTheBath

Thank you for your response.

Having worked in an deprived inner city area (not in education) I have some understanding the challenges faced by teachers.

So, as someone 'at the coal face, ' can you see an answer to the OPs question?

It is a bit judgemental but I agree with you. I've worked with several families now who are severely struggling then your heart sinks as they happily announce that baby number 4,5,6... is on its way. It's incredibly sad for all concerned. Most of the time the women involved just really, really want to be loved and a warm,snuggly baby fits the gap just right.
Sorry, I know I'm judgy now too but it still makes me sad.

[quote Thesefeetaremadeforwalking]@SockFluffInTheBath

Thank you for your response.

Having worked in an deprived inner city area (not in education) I have some understanding the challenges faced by teachers.

So, as someone 'at the coal face, ' can you see an answer to the OPs question?[/quote]
Sadly not at the coal face anymore and hate myself for it. I don’t have the magic answer. In an ideal world people would be our definition of responsible but they’re not and for many reasons. It’s not our place to judge but to help to minimise the fallout

I think it’s impossible not to be judgemental in these cases.

I think some of the reasons are:

1. Assuming the state will step in and help
2. Selfishness
3. Some women not wanting to get a job so keep having more children to put it off.
4. Some men not wanting their partner to get a job and wanting to keep their partner at home / under control.
5. Partner enforcing sex and wife not able to say no.

I wonder the same with pets too. Pets are expensive and hard work. If you’ve no money or time and struggle looking after kids, why get a pet as well?

Why would you willingly make life even worse for the children you already have?

Or yourself?

@Florenz

The government needs to promote not having kids more than they do having kids. Maybe provide financial incentives for women not to have children.

They can't. China tried that and it's biting them on the arse. We already have an issue with such a large proportion of the population being retired, drop in population growth of the economically productive. It's a huge economic threat. It will accelerate anyway, with the rise of cost of living, I would imagine. How many parents are currently rethinking their plans for 3rd or 4th children in light of the rising costs and climate crisises?

@Watermelon44

I think it’s impossible not to be judgemental in these cases.

I think some of the reasons are:

1. Assuming the state will step in and help
2. Selfishness
3. Some women not wanting to get a job so keep having more children to put it off.
4. Some men not wanting their partner to get a job and wanting to keep their partner at home / under control.
5. Partner enforcing sex and wife not able to say no.

I wonder the same with pets too. Pets are expensive and hard work. If you’ve no money or time and struggle looking after kids, why get a pet as well?

I agree with all of this.

Oh and..

1. Some people like constant excitement in their lives and being the centre of attention with friends and family, which always happens around pregnancy and birth.
2. Lack of understanding of finances and basic maths skills

I agree with you, First of all please excuse my typing broken my glasses! Wouldn’t wish CF. On my worse enemy.

My sibling has CF (baby of the family) and suffers terribly spent long periods in hospital, multiple ITU stays. On CPAP 12hrs a day. Myself and my other sibling suffered too as parents spent long periods away from us. Had a huge impact. Life was not normal for amy of us kids.

First thing I did with my now husband after feeling like our relationship was serious was het him tested. Im not a crier but i bawled with relief when he was not a carrier.

That sounds tough @chiBox I hope your sibling is doing ok.

I know, I think it's something that people should know. Their 'status'. 1 in 16 people carry the gene in Ireland where I live, and every person with CF that I hear about or read about, their family didn't know they carried the gene until two unwitting carriers had a baby. We should all just know this. I have a big family on one side and a medium family on the other side and I feel like I'd know if either side carried the gene, but I don't know for certain, and so, I don't know for certain that my DC don't carry it. This seems ridiculous given the devastation it wreaks on families.

I agree and often wonder the same thing. I think ignorance / selfishness probably to blame

It is other people's business though. It is the CHILDREN in that family's business. I am a teacher and we get quite weary of seeing poorly parented, ignored teenagers with 4 or 5 siblings. Who can't make revision classes, clubs or homework sessions because they have to shoot off to collect little siblings from primary. Who are not getting much attention, and are depressed and anxious. Weary of the parents, not the poor kids that is.

Unfortunately a large family is a luxury, and most of us can't afford the time or money to do it properly. Hence I stopped at 2 kids, wanting 4. Just like I want lots of things, but hold back, because of resources. YANBU