Life is pretty shit for a lot of people

[bananatwain]

On a low wage. Living with parents. Paying £700 a month on childcare even with 30 free hours. Might have to get rid of my car. I have a strict budget and don't buy unnecessary junk. Will likely never be able to afford a house. Rent and bills extortionate and no prospect of me moving out any time soon. If I was renting I'd be screwed. Trying to get promoted at work but cost of living has driven job applications sky high so too competitive. I just wonder what the point is sometimes. I'm so worried about the future and money. Son going to school will help but I'm left with almost £40 which I pathetically save at the moment and £700 definitely won't cover rent and bills. Its actually making me unwell to think about... Anyone else?

@HowIsItMarchAlready so, only rich people should be allowed to have children then? That is what you're saying isn't it? I do not agree with you. If that was the case, I would never have been born and nor would my children. Some people will never ever be able to afford to save to get a safety net or buy a house given the current socio-political context.

I am more than happy for every single penny of my (higher rate) tax money to go on implementing polices like Sure Start, Tax Credits, housing benefit, income support and would pay even more if I knew that it would be INVESTED in these areas to allow those currently struggling to thrive in the 5th richest country in the world.

I am judging your world view in a way that is equally negative to the way you judge me/ the OP.

I think a website such as MN makes it easier to compare one's situation to that of others, and for some it may be time to take a little break from that. Comparisons do prolong the agony of any kind of depression or financial concern.

There has been rather an enormous downswing in ordinary people's lives this past decade, from homelessness to wage stagnation, to all of the terrible events in between. I am not quite sure why many people still find excuses NOT to connect this to the current government. They will still find all manner of silly excuses to 'look the other way' and vote for them once more.

I don't share what I do with my own money with anyone, although I am not married and didn't have children. Nobody gets to judge me .

But I imagine you are going to be told that you can try harder, OP! And there will be plenty of posters willing to share with you just how lucky they are to be rolling in fortune (or someone else's, usually).

just get a higher paid job
There!
All fixed

[quote Thebestwaytoscareatory]@RussianSpy101

in fairness I think it’s down to us as individuals to enhance our prospects.

God I wish I was as naive as you. Our current system doesn't allow for everyone to enhance their prospects on their own. It is a pyramid with a huge foundation of low earning working class propping it up. There simply isn't the structure to allow for everyone to move up the system. Imagine what would happen if every retail worker, waiter, manual worker, carer, etc was actually able to move into a more senior role. The system would collapse completely. If the system needs people to stay in certain lanes it should ensure those people are rewarded fairly, but it doesn't.

That is why intervention is needed. In the 5th richest country in the world there should be no one, absolutely no one, struggling to make ends meet. A minimum wage job should allow someone to meet all their basic needs AND have a reasonable amount left for wants. The only reason this doesn't happen is the greed of the elite and the desire to keep people suppressed so they can continue to accumulate more and more. It's incredibly disheartening to see people still fall for the "you just need to work/study hard and you'll make it" lie we are peddled from school.[/quote]
This.

[quote MyDcAreMarvel]**@Babyroobs* Op says she is getting 30 free hours so won't get UC childcare element too. surely you know that’s not true. You can use UC to pay for additional* childcare that isn’t covered by the 30 hours.
Maybe not re the rent but it’s worth looking into.[/quote]
I don't understand how op can be paying £700 a month with 30 hours free ?

[quote MyDcAreMarvel]**@Babyroobs* Op says she is getting 30 free hours so won't get UC childcare element too. surely you know that’s not true. You can use UC to pay for additional* childcare that isn’t covered by the 30 hours.
Maybe not re the rent but it’s worth looking into.[/quote]
Yes apologies of course you can claim Uc for the extra. Maybe op doesn't claim UC at the moment.
Sorry I just remembered 30 hours is only term time so I guess that's where the remaining £700 occurs.

@Carryonmarion why are children a right though? And please do not go down the path of 'they are tomorrow's society' because people don't have children to help society - they have children because they want them. I don't think people have a right to have children - children are not essential to a human being's life (or everyone would have them). So why should people approach having them as a right?

@RussianSpy101

I wouldn’t be able to vote on this as I am split. Whilst I know things happen and change, there are obviously choices that lead to circumstances and the choices made affect the outcomes and quality of lifestyle. For example, did you already have your own house before getting pregnant? Was your career stable? I appreciate relationships can break down, jobs can be lost, illness and disabilities may affect careers and relationships which more often than not can lead to the woman being the one left struggling financially but there are other factors to consider too. I’ve seen many times on here that babies weren’t planned, but we all know how babies are made and we all know how to prevent that happening. Im not always sure I believe the amount of “contraception fails” that seem to occur.

Wow!!

I feel for you .Many posters on here seem to indicate that you are "lucky" not to be in a bloody war zone FFS! People ,there are many shades i between . You are working hard ,and trying to improve your situation .You are luckier than some because you live with DP , seems to be the mindset here.I get that feeling of being a wage slave .Working all out just to stand still ,really is shit and erodes that sense of "doing well" that is important to us .Not everyone has the house /husband ready set up .I am sorry to hear of your circumstances re your ex .He sounds like a grade one arsehole .You have been incredibly brave and seem like a good hard working person .Keep in there OP ,you have done well to be out of an abusive RL and looking after your LO .Sending hugs xx

[quote HowIsItMarchAlready]@Carryonmarion why are children a right though? And please do not go down the path of 'they are tomorrow's society' because people don't have children to help society - they have children because they want them. I don't think people have a right to have children - children are not essential to a human being's life (or everyone would have them). So why should people approach having them as a right?[/quote]
No, that's not why people have children, but it's why the government should want people to have children. The birth rate is already below replacement level and we have an ageing population. If people like you had your way birth rates would crash catastrophically - I know we need less people globally, but if birth rates decline too quickly it brings it's own, very serious, problems.

@HowIsItMarchAlready who says who should be the ones allowed to have children based on their income? How should that be enforced? What should the cut off point be? ... say 30k? That's not much really for a single income household. The average wage in the UK for 2021 was £25,971. It would be a struggle to bring up 2 kids on that even with subsidised childcare in a tiny 2 bed terraced house in Teeside with no garden. Saying that some people have no "right" to reproduce is a dark, dystopian world view. Yes, absolutely it should be a human right, as should a decent home, income, education and access to healthcare.

@MalFunkshun

OP PLEASE don’t feel you have to justify your life choices to some random sanctimonious posters or, indeed, to anyone. I assume it makes them feel better to pass casual judgement on other people, but do ignore them.

Sorry to hear how tough everything is for you do go for the promotions, it’s always worth it for the experience and confidence at fielding the process. And well done for keeping on.

This 100%….these people are now getting on with their day and probably haven’t given you a second thought 💐

@Carryonmarion then what about holidays in warm climates, a reliable car, pets, sports, etc? Who decides what's a right and what isn't?

@GrolliffetheDragon I agree the balance in terms of youngs and olds is not helping but that's not the point here. We are talking about some people's view that having children is a right, even if they end up relying on others to fund their choice.

@HowIsItMarchAlready those things you list are qualitatively different from having children not least because children go on to be potentially productive members of society who may well be “funding your lifestyle” and caring for you in years to come. Just how productive these children become is directly related to levels of poverty/ income in their early years. Dogs, holidays etc generally don’t give back to society.
Having said that, those things are associated with good mental health. Poor mental health costs the country millions in NHS care, time off work, criminal justice system etc, so indeed, who does decide these things? Hopefully someone who understands progressive taxation and investment on return rather than taking a reactive, individualistic judgemental approach

@Carryonmarion as I anticipated you went down the good-to-society path, when nobody has children for that reason. Can you give me one reason, just one, why children are a right, that doesn't touch on society's wellness (given, as I mentioned, people don't have kids for that reason)?

Public sector work is definitely not what it used to be with over 10 years of barely a rise . But one good thing is that promoted posts are normally advertised internally first - so even if you don't get the role you have applied for - there should hopefully be other opportunities soon - and it's worth asking for feedback . Also definitely worth signing up with a few employment agencies as you may find large private organisations paying more for a similar role. And the more experience you get, the more likelihood of gaining a better paid job.

Obviously you are already working really hard with two part time jobs and I hate to suggest more work but is it possible for your parents to maybe babysit one evening for you to get a shift in a restaurant/ pub?

It's a long time back for me now, but I do recall the pre-school years of paying for child care really difficult - some days you can feel as if you are working for nothing but it will get better - such a relief .

Good luck

@HowIsItMarchAlready, in a nutshell because allocating reproductive rights based on income is morally reprehensible

@Carryonmarion OK. If we need to resort to morality we'll need to agree to disagree as I'm sure there are plenty of other things we would find morally reprehensible and that we'd disagree on.

@HowIsItMarchAlready I’ve also given a number of pragmatic reasons too. But I agree we probably are too fundamentally different in our views to reach a consensus.

@TrainbearI really wish you and your family all the best and I hope there are better times ahead. Sorry for hijacking your post

@HowIsItMarchAlready who’s going to wipe your arse when you’re old, if people without savings don’t have children. Get real love!

@Bogofballs Again, people don't have kids to 'help' the elderly/disabled of the future. They have kids because they want them. So, again, nobody can provide a reason why having children is a right that's not linked to the 'good for society' spiel which has nothing to do with why people have children. Forget children's future role in society since this is not why people have children. What makes them a right have?

You’re doing an incredible job OP! Two jobs and raising DS at the same time sounds exhausting, but hopefully the hard times won’t last forever.
I agree with others that retraining in IT would be good, but I realise when things are shit sometimes you just don’t have the energy for that.

I don’t know if this is helpful, but when I was going through a really hard time I used to listen to this old self-help cassette. It talked about how having life goals can help and followed a study of people who planned where they wanted to be in 10 years and those who didn’t.
The planners didn’t all make it to where they wanted to be, but they got a lot further than those who didn’t try to set goals.
I always try to think about where I want to be in 10 years time and then try to work out how to get there. Of course, I’m nowhere near where I thought I’d be 10 years ago, but I felt like just having goals in my head helped me through the hard times if that makes any sense?

So if your goal was to own a house or rent a place of your own, you could work out how to get there? Maybe the route would be retraining or going for as many promotions as possible or something.
I don’t know if that’s helpful at all? It’s just something that helped me.

In any case keep on keeping on. It sounds so rough right now and all these bill increases are really hurting, but you sound strong and you’ll make it through to better times

@Balalarama

I find it fascinating how some English people have this mentality of put up and shut up rather than burning outrage at the terrible conditions and pressure some of our fellow countrymen are living under. It's like they have drank the government kool aid and we should all feel jolly grateful that we aren't out starving on the streets. Yes, we are one of the wealthiest countries in the world, which is why it's absolutely outrageous that many people are having to rely on food banks to feed their children, don't have beds or furniture, are having to borrow money from loan sharks or unscrupulous pay day lenders just to pay their gas bill etc etc

OP I don't have the answer for you, but hang in there. Many people are in the same boat, it will get better as your child gets older but I know the next year will be a struggle. Xx

Things have got much worse since austerity, even in the 80s we didn't have food banks and benefits were enough to live on. I agree that we shouldn't have such poverty in a rich country.

Ignore the rude comments OP, I don't why people can't put themselves in another person's shoes. Life can change for any of us, at any time and I don't get the lack of empathy on here sometimes. You are doing a great job in a tough situation. I wish you all best for the future!

[quote HowIsItMarchAlready]@GrolliffetheDragon I agree the balance in terms of youngs and olds is not helping but that's not the point here. We are talking about some people's view that having children is a right, even if they end up relying on others to fund their choice.[/quote]
You're using ' for the good of society' argument against children being a right - as in others in society shouldn't have to pay for someone else's 'right' to have children (through the tax they pay) which is why people have come back and said that having a future generation of enough children from all backgrounds is beneficial to society as it provides the next workforce, some of which we are reliant on, yet you're refusing to accept the counter argument, stating that the counter argument cannot be about the benefits to society.

Things will be alot easier once the childcare costs reduce. Keep applying for internal jobs, and fill time admin roles etc.
Things generally feel a bit bleak all round now after the pandemic, brexit, now ukraine and the cost of living increases.
But your situation sounds tough and I hope things improve for you before too long