To say DH can’t go on the stag do?

[coldlistened]

We have just £2000 in savings, we had more but it got wiped out by a private medical surgery for me which was a good few thousand £. I went private to have endometriosis surgery (I have it very severe) as I was in absolute complete agony every day and couldn’t wait on the NHS list for treatment any longer. This is relevant because DH is using it in his argument. DH and his friends are all very outdoorsy, into fishing and hiking and mountain biking etc. His friend is getting married near Christmas and wants to arrange a very extravagant stag do.

10 days in a log cabin in the Canadian Rockies in October, and that is DH’s dream holiday. DH’s flights will be at least £600. The log cabin is going to be £2000 which will be split between the 4 of them. So it’s going to be at least £1100. The stag will be paying for drinks, food and activities.

DH really wants to go and his friends have confirmed they are going. His friends are all well off and in good jobs. He’ll be able to get the leave off. But we will be left with £900 in savings. We’re not really in a position to build our savings up again at the minute, especially with the energy crisis. The £2000 is our emergency fund, and I’m anxious at the thought of half of it being blown like this. And also if it were to be spent on a holiday I feel it’s fairer if it’s a family holiday with me and DC. I work full-time as well as him so I don’t know how I feel about it being spent on his dream holiday while me and DC stay at home.

DH feels I’m being mean. He loves his friends, he works hard (he really does) and feels that he deserves this. It’s not that I don’t want him to go, I know it sounds brilliant for him and he’d love it and if we had the money I’d be thrilled for him but I don’t think we can justify it at the moment.

DH has now said that because our other savings went on my surgery, it’s not fair I’m unsure over his holiday. I think this is unfair, I was in a lot of pain. I’d much rather have not needed the surgery so that I could treat myself with the money instead!

There's no treatment plan in place, so it's going to recur, quickly, why haven't you got something in place rather than having wasted the 6k to queue jump and not sort this out beforehand? Anyone with endo will tell you that the endo will return pdq, surely you did that research? So your inaction will literally have thrown 6k down the toilet. You've not got pain management sorted. These really are all basics.

Why are you being so horrible?

Any doctor would have agreed the laparoscopy was needed. That's a given. Who made you more clever? She really did need that done. It's not wasted money at all. The person to advise on her treatment plan will be the doctor, not you. If they didn't recommend, say, an induced menopause, there will be reasons for that.

@diddl

It's more than a grand for a stag do!

No shit.

Any doctor would have agreed the laparoscopy was needed. That's a given. Who made you more clever? She really did need that done. It's not wasted money at all. The person to advise on her treatment plan will be the doctor, not you. If they didn't recommend, say, an induced menopause, there will be reasons for that.

Any doctor? Or just one who was going to make £6k out of it? She says herself it’s not a permanent solution.

I do think posters need to lay off the OP for her surgery though. She obviously found it hard spending so much on the surgery but was unable to reduce her pain via the NHS.

Anyone who has ever suffered with chronic pain will know that it drives you half mad. And I'm sure her partner would prefer she spent the £6k to be pain free even for a few years. I know I would for my DP.

She wants him to go on the holiday - and I think he should - but she's scared to put her kids at risk of going without the heating/car etc. That's valid.

Basically he needs to come up with a plan if he wants to go. I think PP idea of a 0% credit card and he works HARD to repay that monthly before the interest starts is a good idea.

And OP, if possible maybe look into getting health insurance? Your work may offer it and they can cover surgeries. Would've been better to get it before the Dx but that doesn't matter now.

Hope your Endo fucks off to fuck and beyond.

'Basically he needs to come up with a plan if he wants to go. I think PP idea of a 0% credit card and he works HARD to repay that monthly before the interest starts is a good idea.'

He doesn't. He needs to be a big boy and say 'sorry we can't afford it'.

Just a ridiculous situation. Canada fgs for a stag do.

ChoiceMummy

You don't know as much as you think you do about endometriosis.

Timely laparoscopic surgery may not put a hat on everything but just try not having them and letting the endometriosis go where it wants and then wondering what the next step would be.

I have a friend who nearly died. It can, at its worst, cause great damage. There is no way to really assess the situation without getting in there.

The surgery slows the advance and for many women, a second doesn't end up being necessary.

The earlier the better and the NHS record on this is appalling. As are you.

Don’t we all have things we’d like, that we don’t get? It’s just life isn’t it. We might like a newer and more expensive car than we have, or our friends might join a really expensive gym that we’d like to join and we can’t afford. The idea that because other people are doing things you’d like to, being denied them is cruel, is just ridiculous and self indulgent.

What’s this nonsense about it being a once in a lifetime experience and he will spend the rest of his life feeling disappointed when his friends refer to the trip? As if this is something that will ruin his whole life! Talk about catastrophising and failing to have a sense of perspective. But again, I guess that’s the short term focus and failure to see things in a lomger term perspective that’s quite common. It suggests adults like DH are so fragile and easily crushed by a ‘no’ and are like small children who need to be soothed and given exactly what they want regardless of the consequences. Is this just a thing women feel towards men, or does it work the other way too and is something society wide? Where is the adult relationship which makes joint decisions about the use of money…one where no-one ‘asks’ to spend all the family savings in a leisure trip - where no-one asks and no-one has power to agree or deny, but where when one has an idea that they’ve already thought through and think might be viable (ie doesn’t bring stupid ideas to the table that will ruin the family) and then they talk it through and decide together. In this scenario there’s no guilt tripping, no resentment, just genuinely joint decisions and sometimes joint regret that something simply isn’t possible.

It’s just a fact of life that other people sometimes do things we’d like to and can’t. Grown ups understand that and it doesn’t devastate them. They don’t ask their partners if they can spend the family reserves on doing it and drive them into debt or guilt trip them about it. They know without needing to ask, that they shouldn’t do it and it would be foolish. That is unless they’re in a Victorian novel and take their wages to the pub and spend them, meaning the wife has no money for food and the children remain barefoot. It’s not such a different scenario is it really!

But this is about bigger issues too. It’s about people’s approach to money and their ability or willingness to say ‘no’ to short term pleasures to protect t the longer term financial stability of themselves and their families. It’s about attitudes to debt and savings and to how people feel about their friends’ spending.

Perhaps society isn’t so different to the Victorian one with the boozing husband leaving the family with nothing to feed the family with. There were are are those families that continue to struggle and feel a bit aggrieved when they look at others around them and can’t understand how somehow they’ve managed to retire at a reasonable age, or to save up and get a deposit for a house. And there are those who make some sacrifices and go without a few ‘nice to haves’ becaue they can see the bigger, longer term picture.

@JaniieJones

'Basically he needs to come up with a plan if he wants to go. I think PP idea of a 0% credit card and he works HARD to repay that monthly before the interest starts is a good idea.'

He doesn't. He needs to be a big boy and say 'sorry we can't afford it'.

Just a ridiculous situation. Canada fgs for a stag do.

Stop thinking of it as just a stag do. Think about it as a once in a lifetime trip with his best mates. They'll be talking about it for the next 2 years. Not being able to go will breed resentment and anger. Even when it's not his wife's fault this may be displaced onto her.

It's unlikely he will get the chance again - especially if the stag has said he'll pay all food and drink.

Next 20 years*

I can understand the anxiety about using the funds for this purpose, but on balance I would let him go. It really sounds like a once in a lifetime opportunity. I would imagine quite a large amount of resentment if you stop him. It sounds like he does deserve this.

It is the sort of trip he will back on and share photos of for years to come. Sometimes in life we need these experiences to feel alive.

For me the ability to help fulfil a dream of his would be worth it.

My only condition would be that he realises and acknowledges that this is a sacrifice to the family - and that should 'emergencies' arise that require unexpected cash that he shoulders the responsibility of finding solutions for those when they arise.

@SolarPortrait sounds lovely in theory, but how does he find that extra money when emergencies occur ?
The reality is the family has no extra money.

@coldlistened if you're feeling brave enough please start a continuation thread, it would be interesting to know how this progresses .

@Blondeshavemorefun

I’m on the fence on this

Savings are fab if this go wrong

Equally after dh died almost 11yrs ago I said life was for living

And booked a lifetime trip to oz

Tho didn’t have kids then I did have a house car mortgage etc

But also had some savings

Equally the past 2yrs has shown us live life

I would say let dh go

Either via half the savings

Or get a credit card 0% interest if say boiler car went or to put flights on

Not everyone has the luxury of a £2k pot

I feel the same, @Blondeshavemorefun. DP and I never got to have the things we'd planned for our retirement. We had savings, but they were earmarked for house renovation, which was barely started when he died suddenly.

I wish we'd blown them on our motorhome road trip through France and our trip to Vienna by train now.

Sorry to hear about death of your dp @LakieLady 💐

Once dh died I said

Live life for today as sadly tomorrow doesn’t always come

No the onus is not on the op to replace the money as her operation to end chronic and excruciating pain was a VALID way to spend savings.

You quoted me, but that isnt what i said. The onus is on BOTH of them to rebuild savings.

Stop thinking of it as just a stag do. Think about it as a once in a lifetime trip with his best mates. They'll be talking about it for the next 2 years. Not being able to go will breed resentment and anger. Even when it's not his wife's fault this may be displaced onto her.

It's unlikely he will get the chance again - especially if the stag has said he'll pay all food and drink.

We have no idea whether this is a once in a lifetime trip or not. People are just making that up. It's bizarre that some of you are so attached to the concept.

Additionally, why is DHs potential resentment and anger so important here, what about resentment and anger OP may feel if when he spends the whole of their savings and more on this trip and they're fucked next time there's an emergency?

@Calandor

Nah it's what the stag has called it; a stag do.
A mark of a 'once in a lifetime' trip is all participants plan and agree on the main features such as destination, activities and most importantly how it is going to be saved and paid for. This is not imposed on the participants just because the stag has whimsically decided this is what he fancies.

@WindyKnickers

I'm not a big fan of expensive stag and hen do but this does sound pretty good value for a once in a lifetime trip. I know you say you can't cut back any further but even small savings can help. Maybe he could keep a tally of every time he takes his lunch to work instead of buying it, every time he goes home after one pint instead of 3. If he really makes the effort eg cancelling extra sports channels, making his trainers last another 6 months, the little sacrifices will help towards the cost.

I would do the same.

And many years coaching clients in financial capability has taught me that almost everyone can save a few pounds somewhere. It may not be a big gain, like cancelling £100 pcm worth of tv subscriptions, but even small gains really add up over a year. And anyone who doesn't do all their shopping in Aldi/Lidl can make savings!

Bearing in mind that the basic cost of living is going to go up significantly in the near future, any small savings they can make are liable to be needed to pay the increased prices for food, fuel etc, and unavailable for expensive holidays.

It sounds like it means the world to him, it does sound an opportunity of a lifetime. I think as a team you can work together to find ways to alleviate your concerns whilst letting him that this moment,

What kind of adult allows an optional trip ‘mean the world to them’ and missing it be a source of devastation?

When energy bills are rocketing, interest rates are likely to rise and food prices and petrol prices are shooting up, WHY would anyone make their already precarious financial situation worse, for something so unnecessary?

Or has he thought through that the consequences if this could be having the heating in substantially less over next winter, or the kids not having new wellies, or the supermarket shop each week is a real struggle and has to go in a credit card that isn’t paid off. Does he really think those consequences are worth it for a jolly with his mates?

I agree that trips of lifetime are planned and budgeted for. People often save for several years and carefully research and plan. This isn’t that. Sometimes when events come up, it can FEEL like it will be the end of the world to miss out. Grown ups give their heads a wobble and get some perspective and realise there are probably lots of things the money could be better used for. Contingency isn’t a dirty word. It’s the thing that gives families and their children security growing up, thry know they can face the unexpected bills which will certainly crop up.

If this family had £10k and wanted to spend £2-3k on the trip (and will cost the upper end) I’d still consider it expensive and question it…but perhaps they would decide together this worth it. BUT they have so little. £2k won’t fully fund a new boiler. It doesn’t matter that some families have nothing out by - it isn’t a race to the bottom and spending should happen until the lowest common denominator met. Aim for better. Aim for more secure.appreciate that delayed gratification results in greater and longer gratification.

They will be left with nothing. I’m amazed how many people don’t seem bothered by that at all.

And many years coaching clients in financial capability has taught me that almost everyone can save a few pounds somewhere. It may not be a big gain, like cancelling £100 pcm worth of tv subscriptions, but even small gains really add up over a year. And anyone who doesn't do all their shopping in Aldi/Lidl can make savings

^^ This. The OP says they only have £50 pm spare, but what is that based on? How much do they pay for phones, broadband, TV services etc? Lots of people pay quite a bit more than necessary, so can free up money for holidays if that's their position.

@HardyBuckette resentment is important because it destroys relationships. It is natural to want those closest to you to support your hopes and dreams and to encourage and support you in pursuing them. This doesn't sound like a situation where the DH is always going off on boys trips and putting himself first at the expense of his family.

Was DH supportive (not just in terms of spending savings) when the OP had her surgery? Is he generally a supportive partner?

If yes, then taking this opportunity away from him may cause resentment. That it is all give, give, give and when he has his heart set on something it is denied.

Aim for more secure.appreciate that delayed gratification results in greater and longer gratification

Aim to RTFT properly and read the posts where delayed gratification resulted in no gratification.

I think YANBU. I would never dream of asking this of my partner. A holiday is not what an emergency fund is for - an operation to alleviate awful pain definitely falls under emergency fund imo. Obviously everyone will see it differently (as you can see in this thread!) but that's how it would be viewed in my household.