Neighbour from downstairs doesn't stop complaining about my 2 year old.

[HipsterMum]

We are a family of academics with 2 boys who are 5 and 2 years old. We are currently renting a lovely flat in a large block of flats where the walls are quite thin. We can hear a lot happening in other flats and unfortunately, our neighbours from downstairs can hear us too. We are not particularly noisy, my husband is at work full time, my eldest child is at school and after school he is usually quietly playing with his toys. My youngest is still waiting for his place in the nursery and as I am currently working from home, I look after him in the house. He is not particularly noisy, we don't allow scooters, big cars around the house but he did just discover running so he does sometimes run from one room to another although we continuously tell him to walk gently. Yet he is still a child.

For 2 years we had no problem with any neighbours. The couples living next to us are lovely so is the elderly gentlemen who is completely understanding of some extra noise especially during school holidays and weekends. My kids are always in their bed at about 6.30 reading and then straight to sleep. They wake up normally at 7.30 am and we encourage them to do quite activities like drawing in the mornings. If they get too loud or start jumping off somewhere in the mornings for example on Sundays, we stop this straight away. They also wear soft slippers at all times.

A few months back an owner of the flat below ours decided to move back in (it was rented out before therefore we had no problems with previous people). He hasn't stopped coming up to us and knocking on our doors since. The first time he did it, we were all sick with covid for 10 days. He came on day 2 of isolation and asked us to take the kids out to the park as he couldnt listen to their little feet. When I hoover the floors at 3 pm , he starts banging. When my youngest runs to the loo he bangs. We had relatives over who we not seen for 4 years because of the lockdown and the kids were meeting them for the first time and were opening presents and being excited he was at our door at 2 pm on Sunday saying we have to tell our kids to simply stop walking because he cannot stand it.

We talked with our landlord about the carpets (we have some mats around but thats not enough) but he wouldn't pay for them and he doesn't want carpets permanently placed in this flat anyway. Furthermore, our eldest has got a bad dust allergy so carpets are really difficult, that's why I hoover quite a lot. We invested in a couple of more rugs but I don't think it will make much of a difference. He threatens us that he will continue to come and bang on our front door because he cannot enjoy his life because of our 2 year old. He says we are not being considerate of others and we should be able to tell our kids to stop because he can hear their steps from 9 am till 6 pm. But I cannot tie them up to their chairs or threaten to punish them each time they walk in the own flat. I am at my end with this man. This man suggests I tire them in the park because that's what real parents do (I doubt he ever had kids) but I cannot be with them in the park every weekend from 9 am till 6, can I? We are out most of the days and i do tire my youngest out with the scooter but kids still walk after the park.

What I am asking of all of you is what else can this neighbour actually legally do? What else can I do? My husband says I should not open the door when I am in the flat alone with the little one and tell the guy to stop this harassment. We don't mind moving somewhere else, possibly on the ground floor in the future but we enjoy this flat at the moment as it is right next to my sons school and we live a happy life here.

I understand many people don't enjoy children with their annoying little feet but bloody hell they are humans and not robots.

@DameHelena

would do things like kick shoes off when she came in at night, or slam the door when she left early in the morning. Christ, people in my own household do this sort of thing, before we even start on the neighbours. How do some of you delicate flowers bear living in society? Or do you all live in houses with a moat round?

Then you must be a family of savages. Kicking shoes off and allowing them to travel across wooden floors late at night makes you nothing short of a twat in my book.

'Delicate flower'. I live in one of the busiest and most built densely populated cities in Europe, but yeah you know best

@Marchitectmummy

Poor neighbour.

Nothing poor about him.

Hoovering at 3pm is normal noise. Children playing, talking, singing, crying and moving is normal noise.

If you don't want to hear your neighbours then go and live in a detached house in the middle of nowhere.

If you live in a flats then the inhabitants around you will change with time so you need to expect children to come into existence/move in.

@LemonJuiceFromConcentrate

As for this:

Try teaching your children that they since they live in a flat and not in a detached house that they are to remember that they have neighbours directly below and it is not fair.

Right, yes, try that! because toddlers are really great on stuff like the distinction between detached houses and flats, and implications thereof. Also they’re super good at grasping abstract ideas about the experiences of people they cannot see, who might be disturbed by their noise, and applying that understanding to their behaviour in a disciplined manner.

Christ on a bike

That comment was hilarious. The average child at 24 months has a vocabulary of 50. My 2 year-old thinks the word "home" refers to stairs, because until 2 months ago we lived in a flat so whenever we came home I'd point up the stairs and say "we're home". She thinks grandma lives in the phone, says "upstairs" when she wants to go downstairs, and I've tried explaining the concept of "neighbours" to her but I can tell she's completely nonplussed by the whole concept.

There's also the fact that toddlers (by very definition) are still learning to walk and therefore have much less control over their movements than adults. But yeah sure, a simple conversation should be enough to convince them to tiptoe around all day!!

When living in flats you will always hear some noise from the neighbours we have ours carpeted and downstairs can still hear DS when he runs around. Our old neighbours complained about the noise but was told there was nothing that could be done has we was only making normal household noise.

I have uncarpeted wood floors and I'm in the top floor flat. My downstairs previous neighbour never stopped complaining about me and banging on his ceiling. But I was walking around in my slippers!

They moved out and the new neighbours have never complained. Some people are extremely sensitive to noise and while it's hard for them, it's not your problem.

OP

You have my sympathy.I live next door to joyless neighbours who's ideal neighbour would have been someone who'd have moved in and fully renovated the house and garden completely silently within a few weeks but then not actually live there just merely come back once a week and silently cleaned the house/tidied the garden/exterior of the house to make it look pretty.

Unfortunately they can't understand that a large 3 bed semi with a big garden may be of interest to a family who wanted a home to raise children in.

I'd take an assertive but polite approach to the moaning neighbour when he knocks;open the door and before he starts firmly say "not today thank you" and shut the door.Rinse and repeat.He'll stop coming once he realises you won't engage with him.

Why don't you offer to go down there and see how noisy it actually is before making assumptions about how unreasonable he's being.

A few people here have said that they've lived below people with children and it was terrible so there would seem to be evidence that that is the case...

@LightSpeeds

Why don't you offer to go down there and see how noisy it actually is before making assumptions about how unreasonable he's being.

A few people here have said that they've lived below people with children and it was terrible so there would seem to be evidence that that is the case...

Doesn't matter the OP child is 2.

He can complain as much as he likes because the 2 year old is not causing a statutory noise nuisance.

@LightSpeeds

Why don't you offer to go down there and see how noisy it actually is before making assumptions about how unreasonable he's being.

A few people here have said that they've lived below people with children and it was terrible so there would seem to be evidence that that is the case...

But it's not relevant how bad it is. OP is living normally and has already done all she can. If that creates an unacceptable noise level downstairs then that's very unfortunate but it isn't her fault and can't be helped.

Obviously, there are people who are too noise sensitive to live in a flat. The onus has to be on them not to live in a flat, not on everyone else to live a silent life.

Then you must be a family of savages. Kicking shoes off and allowing them to travel across wooden floors late at night makes you nothing short of a twat in my book.
'Savages' Aye, right you are.

I live in one of the busiest and most built densely populated cities in Europe, but yeah you know best
Spend a lot of time being furious with your neighbours then? Or have you intimidated them into silence?

Can you move to somewhere more suitable?

Having a toddler and a 5 year old in a flat with downstairs neighbours will always cause problems, unless you train them from a young age not to run and jump indoors, and take them out for regular exercise.

The noise of a 2 year old running on a hard floor can sound like an elephant and make the lower ceiling shake. You say you try to stop them running and ‘jumping off things’ but it sounds like they’re still doing it?

Sorry but the flat sounds unsuitable for a growing family, and if this neighbour complains to your landlord you may find yourselves having to move anyway?

Toddler running is really loud. It's also unpredictable. Also if you are working how are you looking after a toddler? either your workplace or your toddler (or both) are being short-changed there.

Having said that your neighbour is harassing you so keep a log, film(ring doorbell or just an old phone using wi-fi to record conversations) and ask your local authority what you can do.

I know you think you're being silent, but you aren't. It doesn't merit that amount of complaints though but you need to understand that you are annoying your neighbour.
(you're getting shit about the academic thing - tbh my eyes rolled so far back in my head i had to do a handstand to get them normal again. I have had academic neighbours in the past. Still do. One played the trumpet at all hours. The other beat 7 kinds of shit out of his wife when he'd been drinking. Which was every day by the time she finally moved out)

@TabithaTittlemouse

I don’t understand why you included that you are a ‘family of academics’ in your post?

It infers they are bookish, generally quiet, people, which is obviously relevant to this post, or correct me if I'm wrong, OP?

Why be so snarky and nasty about the fact it was mentioned? OP is also not entering the book awards here, she's just posting on Mumsnet, so, if she decides to enter a bit of excess info in her post who cares?!

@Brefugee

Toddler running is really loud. It's also unpredictable. Also if you are working how are you looking after a toddler? either your workplace or your toddler (or both) are being short-changed there.

Having said that your neighbour is harassing you so keep a log, film(ring doorbell or just an old phone using wi-fi to record conversations) and ask your local authority what you can do.

I know you think you're being silent, but you aren't. It doesn't merit that amount of complaints though but you need to understand that you are annoying your neighbour.
(you're getting shit about the academic thing - tbh my eyes rolled so far back in my head i had to do a handstand to get them normal again. I have had academic neighbours in the past. Still do. One played the trumpet at all hours. The other beat 7 kinds of shit out of his wife when he'd been drinking. Which was every day by the time she finally moved out)

Read the thread!

The family of academics line made me laugh, is this so we know you’re still important despite living in a rented flat? Just totally irrelevant to the story.

The neighbour is an arsehole who definitely shouldn’t be living in a flat when he has such a huge issue with noise of any sort.

Don't accept harassment or threats from this man.

Log it with 101 and ask them to take action.

Read the thread!
mea culpa i missed the part about her not working all day.

The rest stands. The fact that it is normal family noise, and day-to-day life doesn't make it easier for the neighbour who might be extremely noise sensitive. He doesn't get to harass them though.

IME people who think they are quiet, are rarely as quiet as they think they are. Some of it neighbours have to suck up. Some of it, my trumpeting neighbour get a knock at the door and a robust discussion about what dicks they are.

@TabithaTittlemouse

I don’t understand why you included that you are a ‘family of academics’ in your post?

I think it's to try and convey that as they're academics their children are obviously not noisy.

Everyone should show consideration to their neighbours and I wonder op if you're immune to the noise toddlers make? Perhaps it's louder than you realise.

That said he really doesn't need to be telling you how to parent that's rude but if you don't have kids and a family moves in with them adjusting to family noise can be difficult.

I think you are within your rights here.however toddlers running above your head will be noisy! You say the flat is convenient,but it isn't if this guy keeps complaining. It's stressful .I personally would look at moving when the time is up .somewhere else possibly ground floor with garden would be better I think

I am totally with you, you are doing your best and he sounds unreasonable.

I once lived under a young family, with little sound proofing, and it was hell. The running, all day and every day. Also I was a student so liked a lie in at the weekend. No chance. Also could hear one of the parents coughing up greenies in the morning along with toilet noise. Difference is I didn't bang in their door.

I really feel for both you and your neighbour. Unfortunately noise is part of living in a flat, and the reason I would not do so again out of choice.

I would go into your council website for noise abatement and print off the bit about what is reasonable. I would then write a brief letter stating that you are not breaking the enclosed guidance - and in fact have gone over and above the required measures to attempt to reduce noise for him. I would state that other neighbours and the previous occupants of his flat have had no issue with your noise levels and therefore request that he ceases to harass you and your family for living a normal life.

I would then keep a log of ever time he turns up at your door including times what he was complaining about and what intact you were doing. This will form the basis of your harassment complaint to the police. I'd imagine a knock from the local poloce community support might make him rethink.

I wouldn't keep on at your landlord if you like living there as otherwise his easy answer to avoid having to declare neighbour issues when he sells is to evict you.

I had this in a rented flat I was living in. It was an old building so some noise couldn’t be helped, but we all got on very well and were as careful as possible.

A couple moved in and all was fine until they had a child. We asked the landlord (he owned the whole building) to come round and listen. He told them to try and quieten down. They didn’t and got evicted.

You may find this happens to you OP, so start looking for a home that’s more suitable for kids before it does. Or you might find that your neighbours start calling SS like mine did!

@Frannyhy

I had this in a rented flat I was living in. It was an old building so some noise couldn’t be helped, but we all got on very well and were as careful as possible.

A couple moved in and all was fine until they had a child. We asked the landlord (he owned the whole building) to come round and listen. He told them to try and quieten down. They didn’t and got evicted.

You may find this happens to you OP, so start looking for a home that’s more suitable for kids before it does. Or you might find that your neighbours start calling SS like mine did!

That's an awful thing to say. If you call SS for a child running, you have no understanding of what SS are actually there for.

Going against the grain here.

As a child-free person, it is really annoying being disturbed by people’s children, whether out or about or in your home, particularly if you are a quiet person on the asd spectrum like me. I’m moving to a flat soon and am worried about noise from others- children and students etc.

Have you tried to keep the noise down a bit? Like really, no banging, slamming and running. In some flats/attached homes, you can hear everything.

It doesn’t mean you’re a delicate flower if you dislike others’ noise.

However, if there’s nothing you can do, there’s nothing you can do. Some places really do have rubbish insulation and thin walls.

Have you been down to the flat to hear how genuinely loud the noise your children makes is?

Can you move to somewhere more suitable? Sorry but the flat sounds unsuitable for a growing family.

Millions of people with children all over the world live in flats. In some cities Flats are the most common type of accommodation. If the neighbour can’t cope with the sounds of normal day-to-day living then he’s the one that needs to move.