Neighbour from downstairs doesn't stop complaining about my 2 year old.

[HipsterMum]

We are a family of academics with 2 boys who are 5 and 2 years old. We are currently renting a lovely flat in a large block of flats where the walls are quite thin. We can hear a lot happening in other flats and unfortunately, our neighbours from downstairs can hear us too. We are not particularly noisy, my husband is at work full time, my eldest child is at school and after school he is usually quietly playing with his toys. My youngest is still waiting for his place in the nursery and as I am currently working from home, I look after him in the house. He is not particularly noisy, we don't allow scooters, big cars around the house but he did just discover running so he does sometimes run from one room to another although we continuously tell him to walk gently. Yet he is still a child.

For 2 years we had no problem with any neighbours. The couples living next to us are lovely so is the elderly gentlemen who is completely understanding of some extra noise especially during school holidays and weekends. My kids are always in their bed at about 6.30 reading and then straight to sleep. They wake up normally at 7.30 am and we encourage them to do quite activities like drawing in the mornings. If they get too loud or start jumping off somewhere in the mornings for example on Sundays, we stop this straight away. They also wear soft slippers at all times.

A few months back an owner of the flat below ours decided to move back in (it was rented out before therefore we had no problems with previous people). He hasn't stopped coming up to us and knocking on our doors since. The first time he did it, we were all sick with covid for 10 days. He came on day 2 of isolation and asked us to take the kids out to the park as he couldnt listen to their little feet. When I hoover the floors at 3 pm , he starts banging. When my youngest runs to the loo he bangs. We had relatives over who we not seen for 4 years because of the lockdown and the kids were meeting them for the first time and were opening presents and being excited he was at our door at 2 pm on Sunday saying we have to tell our kids to simply stop walking because he cannot stand it.

We talked with our landlord about the carpets (we have some mats around but thats not enough) but he wouldn't pay for them and he doesn't want carpets permanently placed in this flat anyway. Furthermore, our eldest has got a bad dust allergy so carpets are really difficult, that's why I hoover quite a lot. We invested in a couple of more rugs but I don't think it will make much of a difference. He threatens us that he will continue to come and bang on our front door because he cannot enjoy his life because of our 2 year old. He says we are not being considerate of others and we should be able to tell our kids to stop because he can hear their steps from 9 am till 6 pm. But I cannot tie them up to their chairs or threaten to punish them each time they walk in the own flat. I am at my end with this man. This man suggests I tire them in the park because that's what real parents do (I doubt he ever had kids) but I cannot be with them in the park every weekend from 9 am till 6, can I? We are out most of the days and i do tire my youngest out with the scooter but kids still walk after the park.

What I am asking of all of you is what else can this neighbour actually legally do? What else can I do? My husband says I should not open the door when I am in the flat alone with the little one and tell the guy to stop this harassment. We don't mind moving somewhere else, possibly on the ground floor in the future but we enjoy this flat at the moment as it is right next to my sons school and we live a happy life here.

I understand many people don't enjoy children with their annoying little feet but bloody hell they are humans and not robots.

I would suggest giving your neighbour your landlord's email address and asking that he direct all complaints to the person who is actually able to do something about it, not the people living a normal life in a badly soundproofed flat.

The flat-footed running that toddlers can do , especially on hard floors can be really annoying if it’s above you.

It amplifies massively. (As do high heels stamping about)

I do agree that a good run outdoors does wonders for tiring out young children.

Wooden /laminate floors in old houses divided into flats especially have noise issues.
Noise amplifies between your floor and his ceiling.

Toddlers don’t seem to be able to walk quietly, due to the “ Stamping” rather than heel to toe movement which is much quieter.
Sounds like insulation between floors might be an idea.

I visited my neighbour once when DS was riddling out the stove-
It sounded like the entire party wall was tumbling down!

I couldn’t believe the noise.
It sounded much quieter our side.

Maybe go down and hear the noise the neighb is complaining about?

Edit
Landlord needs to install insulation.

What type of flooring is in the flat? When we owned a flat the terms of the lease specified it had to be either fitted carpet or cork flooring. It couldn't be wood, laminate, tile or vinyl because they don't offer enough soundproofing.

@KarenOLantern

Can you move to somewhere more suitable? Sorry but the flat sounds unsuitable for a growing family.

Millions of people with children all over the world live in flats. In some cities Flats are the most common type of accommodation. If the neighbour can’t cope with the sounds of normal day-to-day living then he’s the one that needs to move.

An awful lot of flats in UK are conversions- from old houses meant to be for one family.

They are often hopelessly soundproofed, if at all.

Purpose built flats are probably much better insulated against sound, especially between floor to ceiling.

OP your neighbour is defin6being unreasonable. A child of 2 should be able to potter about his own home in safety what this man is doing is nothing short of harassment. Don't answer the door to him when you are on your own. Continue to hoover and let him bang up to you. Keep a note of all interactions with him and if need be involve the antisocial unit.

As a child-free person, it is really annoying being disturbed by people’s children, whether out or about or in your home, particularly if you are a quiet person on the asd spectrum like me. I’m moving to a flat soon and am worried about noise from others- children and students etc.

I would strongly urge you not to move to a flat if there is any choice at all about it. I recognize that perhaps you have no choice over your living situation - if so, when you do move in try and remember that your neighbours may also have no control over their living situation and so you can't expect them to shape their lives around your need for quiet.

As the downstairs neighbours owns the flat and you rent tell him to pay for soundproofing the ceiling.

Just keep repeating. Yes soundproofing would help that. Maybe stick it on a note on your door.

YANBU

I don't know where people are getting these 2 year olds that can be taken to the park for a couple of hours and then will be so exhausted and worn out that they sit perfectly still for the rest of the day, but mine wasn't that model, and nor are most of the others I've encountered.

Some of those foam playmats might help, the jigsaw type tiles, thicker than rugs and not dust traps.

Picture for example. You can get them in less garish colours to suit your decor.

Threads like these really do make me think that adult-only flats should be a thing. If young children are exempt from anti-social behaviour rules and regulations (fair enough), then there is nothing anyone can do to prevent the noise and they're faced with the prospect of constantly moving to avoid families. You can't blame others for wanting the option to live alongside adults only.

(Of course the better option would be regulation for soundproofing but given we're not even at the point of regulating safe cladding yet, I won't hold my breath.)

@LightSpeeds

Why don't you offer to go down there and see how noisy it actually is before making assumptions about how unreasonable he's being.

A few people here have said that they've lived below people with children and it was terrible so there would seem to be evidence that that is the case...

I have no doubt he can hear us do things and move chairs and my youngest walking from one room to another. So if I go to his flat I would confirm that. My husband also told him that he was more than welcome to spend an hour at our place to see what our kids are actually doing. What he would see is just kids moving a chair to sit and draw, walking quickly to use the loo, youngest dropping his water bottle on the floor by accident, etc. Normal daily activities that stop after 6.30 pm as we start reading in bed with them and then they go straight to sleep till 7.30 when they start walking to the loo, I get them both ready to drop my eldest at school. These are normal daily activities. I cannot commit to his suggestion to spend half a day in the park 🙈

@HardbackWriter

I don't know where people are getting these 2 year olds that can be taken to the park for a couple of hours and then will be so exhausted and worn out that they sit perfectly still for the rest of the day, but mine wasn't that model, and nor are most of the others I've encountered.

I don’t think they exist do they? Not healthy 2 year olds anyway!

He is harassing and intimidating you and your family. I would send him a letter stating that you have been more than accommodating to his concerns, but he continues to harras you. Any further harassment will be reported to police.

Sorry but the flat sounds unsuitable for a growing family, and if this neighbour complains to your landlord you may find yourselves having to move anyway?
I don't think many families would choose a flat if they could afford a suitable house.

@TheTeenageYears

What type of flooring is in the flat? When we owned a flat the terms of the lease specified it had to be either fitted carpet or cork flooring. It couldn't be wood, laminate, tile or vinyl because they don't offer enough soundproofing.

There are different floors in every room but most of it is like laminate floors which are of course not the best. I have no idea whats underneath the floor boards. The landlord said this flat has been this way for over 15 years. This neighbour from downstairs had been renting his flat out all this time but recently moved in himself (perhaps went through divorce or his life circumstances have changed). Even if we move and some couple moves in I am not sure how it will change his situation. We got a very loud couple living next door from us who have got heated arguments, guests over and a loud dog. Then there is our other neighbour who listens to music all day long and has got a gym in one of his rooms so you can hear the metal bars and everything. I assume if they were to do our floors all up the landlord would have to pay for us to stay somewhere else for the time being. I am not sure he would do any of that to be honest.

Surely as part of 'a family of academics' you'll have the brain power to work it out. Or we're you insinuating that a family on benefits would be less mindful of their neighbours and obviously a massive working class scummy nuisance.

YANBU to let children make reasonable noise in the day in their own home.

@MabelsApron

Threads like these really do make me think that adult-only flats should be a thing. If young children are exempt from anti-social behaviour rules and regulations (fair enough), then there is nothing anyone can do to prevent the noise and they're faced with the prospect of constantly moving to avoid families. You can't blame others for wanting the option to live alongside adults only.

(Of course the better option would be regulation for soundproofing but given we're not even at the point of regulating safe cladding yet, I won't hold my breath.)

Agree. There should be some refuge.

Just because the flooring has been down for many years doesn't mean it's allowed. If the downstairs flat was rented out the renters are unlikely to have pointed it out to their landlord. I would stop answering the door to the neighbour but also not renew your tenancy when the time comes. If the flooring isn't allowed under the terms of the lease the neighbour can take legal action against your landlord. It must be really stressful for you all trying to be quiet and maybe just something to chalk up to experience and be aware of in future.

I assume if they were to do our floors all up the landlord would have to pay for us to stay somewhere else for the time being.

No it would be done room by room.

The problem you have because he's a leaseholder and you are a tenant, it would be easier for your landlord to get you to move once your contact is up. Then the issue would be resolved.

I would tell him that if he thinks the noise meets the definition of being a nuisance he should report you to the council so it can investigate. Otherwise he should let it go, it sounds like it’s a noisy building and nothing your children are doing seems particularly unusual. Council very likely to say this is normal noise, not a nuisance, and then you can tell him to leave you alone.

@MabelsApron all children are exempt.

Obviously if a child is doing something like playing loud music or practising an instrument e.g. trumpet they aren't exempt as it is expected an adult would prevent it.

There are adult only flats. However they tend to be retirement flats or social housing designated for older people.

[quote RedWingBoots]@MabelsApron all children are exempt.

Obviously if a child is doing something like playing loud music or practising an instrument e.g. trumpet they aren't exempt as it is expected an adult would prevent it.

There are adult only flats. However they tend to be retirement flats or social housing designated for older people.[/quote]
Yes, they do exist, but as you say they're quite limited in terms of who is eligible, whereas I think they'd have wider appeal. You'd still have issues with soundproofing etc. but the vast majority of adults don't run and jump off things at 7am, and if you were unlucky enough to have one living above, you could look into noise nuisance complaints.

The problem you have because he's a leaseholder and you are a tenant, it would be easier for your landlord to get you to move once your contact is up. Then the issue would be resolved.

Except it wouldn't though, because if he's getting this wound up over OP using the hoover in the afternoon and her children walking around then he'd likely be equally vexed by the next tenants who move in, if they're slightly heavy-footed or do any cooking, hoovering, or anything at all in their flat other than sit still all day.

@Riapia

Does he know you’re a family of academics. I’m certain that if you told him then he would understand you hoovering in the afternoon. He’s obviously used to working class women hoovering in the morning.

😂😂😂😂😂