Neighbour from downstairs doesn't stop complaining about my 2 year old.

[HipsterMum]

We are a family of academics with 2 boys who are 5 and 2 years old. We are currently renting a lovely flat in a large block of flats where the walls are quite thin. We can hear a lot happening in other flats and unfortunately, our neighbours from downstairs can hear us too. We are not particularly noisy, my husband is at work full time, my eldest child is at school and after school he is usually quietly playing with his toys. My youngest is still waiting for his place in the nursery and as I am currently working from home, I look after him in the house. He is not particularly noisy, we don't allow scooters, big cars around the house but he did just discover running so he does sometimes run from one room to another although we continuously tell him to walk gently. Yet he is still a child.

For 2 years we had no problem with any neighbours. The couples living next to us are lovely so is the elderly gentlemen who is completely understanding of some extra noise especially during school holidays and weekends. My kids are always in their bed at about 6.30 reading and then straight to sleep. They wake up normally at 7.30 am and we encourage them to do quite activities like drawing in the mornings. If they get too loud or start jumping off somewhere in the mornings for example on Sundays, we stop this straight away. They also wear soft slippers at all times.

A few months back an owner of the flat below ours decided to move back in (it was rented out before therefore we had no problems with previous people). He hasn't stopped coming up to us and knocking on our doors since. The first time he did it, we were all sick with covid for 10 days. He came on day 2 of isolation and asked us to take the kids out to the park as he couldnt listen to their little feet. When I hoover the floors at 3 pm , he starts banging. When my youngest runs to the loo he bangs. We had relatives over who we not seen for 4 years because of the lockdown and the kids were meeting them for the first time and were opening presents and being excited he was at our door at 2 pm on Sunday saying we have to tell our kids to simply stop walking because he cannot stand it.

We talked with our landlord about the carpets (we have some mats around but thats not enough) but he wouldn't pay for them and he doesn't want carpets permanently placed in this flat anyway. Furthermore, our eldest has got a bad dust allergy so carpets are really difficult, that's why I hoover quite a lot. We invested in a couple of more rugs but I don't think it will make much of a difference. He threatens us that he will continue to come and bang on our front door because he cannot enjoy his life because of our 2 year old. He says we are not being considerate of others and we should be able to tell our kids to stop because he can hear their steps from 9 am till 6 pm. But I cannot tie them up to their chairs or threaten to punish them each time they walk in the own flat. I am at my end with this man. This man suggests I tire them in the park because that's what real parents do (I doubt he ever had kids) but I cannot be with them in the park every weekend from 9 am till 6, can I? We are out most of the days and i do tire my youngest out with the scooter but kids still walk after the park.

What I am asking of all of you is what else can this neighbour actually legally do? What else can I do? My husband says I should not open the door when I am in the flat alone with the little one and tell the guy to stop this harassment. We don't mind moving somewhere else, possibly on the ground floor in the future but we enjoy this flat at the moment as it is right next to my sons school and we live a happy life here.

I understand many people don't enjoy children with their annoying little feet but bloody hell they are humans and not robots.

@Pythonesque

Personally I think it's more than time your 5 yr old started learning a musical instrument.

(coi teach violin from age 4 upwards [evil laugh])

This. Give the fucker something to really complain about.

You could also tell Grumpy to go drive himself to the library for a few hours of peace each day. Why should he think you should leave to make things quiet and he gets to just sit down there and complain?

Poor neighbour.

I think you need to go downstairs and have your DH get the children to run around to see how noisy / annoying it can be.

Lots of flats have rules about only having carpet because noise does travel down and it can amplify.

Once you know exactly what he is complaining about you can take appropriate action.

YANBU, as others have already mentioned the issue is the design of the flat and the non-existent soundproofing, not you. What you describe are the noises of day to day life! It is a very frequent problem but when we live packed liked sardines in houses that were not designed for this type of living, that's what happens. I lived in a flat where we could hear everything from upstairs, but decided not to complain as there was nothing wrong with what they were doing: you can't ask someone to stop having cereal because you can hear the spoon bit the bowl - and the same goes with hoovering and little kids running around during the day. What is probably needed to make a real difference is some proper soundproofing material under the floorboards, not carpets, though I am sure they would help a bit. By the way some leases, from the freehold to the long term leasehold, do contain restrictions on the removal of carpets precisely for this issue, though people often remove the carpets anyway.

@Marchitectmummy

Poor neighbour.

It sounds like he wants complete silence which you can't have in a flat. He's harassing her.

Thank you for all the latest replies. I will forward this issue to the landlord and see if he wishes to do anything. At this stage I don't mind having new carpets installed but our landlord didnt seem to be bothered the first time I brought it up. He claims this flat never had any carpets and neither do most other flats in this building.

I will most probably wait for his reply and notify our neighbours about the steps we would consider taking to reduce the noise. But then again the steps would mostly be just rugs and soft slippers (which my kids already wear). As I mentioned my kids are not running in the house, I believe its just the stage my youngest is going through by stumping a little.I really cannot do much about that even if I try really hard as he is only 2 he simply doesn't understand what I am talking about. With all honestly, from the conversations we've had with this neighbour it seems he just doesn't like children at all and he doesn't understand why they just cannot sit still or not walk around this much. A few of the times I was just alone with my child on my hands when he came up to complain and he kept on saying that my son prevents him from enjoying his life, etc.

P.s. just now I can hear my neighbours from upstairs getting ready for work and they walk back and forth and although I can hear it pretty well, I am not really bothered about that. The sound proofing is really not very good in this house.

Is the male neighbour at home all day?

@MammaMacgill87

I have four kids, I'm from an 'academic background but am now a rented council scummy mummy' 😒🤣 (sorry couldn't help it) , and live in a flat, second floor. Sometimes the noise within my own house makes me want to jump out a window. Downstairs also has kids as does upstairs. My flat is fully carpeted I try my best to discourage noise but it's still inevitable. What I'm getting at here is what you think is reasonable normal noise of every day living, will infact be genuine hell for the man downstairs. Like almost unbearable. Upstairs from me has wooden floors and a toddler and a dog and 4 adults and there are days I could (and have) cried with sheer frustration at the noise. (Especially because in the evenings around bed time my kids are quiet and into bed and the noise from all the other flats is deafening it bores into your brain) If you don't yourself live with children your baseline for acceptable noise is already lower. Buy some cheap runner carpets and lay them out. Buy the guy an apology gift, write a letter saying your trying your best to dampen the noise, but you'd appreciate it if he didn't knock the door again and deal with your husband/landlord if the issue is too much. But again let me assure you it's is a form of mental torture, if I had an accessible alternative I'd certainly NEVER inflict myself or anyone else to living below young children, it's not practical or fair for any party. I'm sure your acdemia could afford you a move perhaps that's the best suggestion.

This is a fair response. Neither side is wrong, it's just a difficult situation.

A family member had this. Their neighbour complained about the hoovering, the noise from the central heating, the noise from their child taking a bath, the noise from a normal conversation - the list was endless! They basically told them to stop harassing them as did their landlord and the concierge (the neighbour even had the concierge in their flat listening to the noise. They were told they were being ridiculous).
If they keep on report them for harassment.

Living beneath inadequate soundproofing and wooden floors can be hell.

I moved apartments because of it. Ironic to this thread the person above us was a single woman AND an academic She was truly awful though, and would do things like kick shoes off when she came in at night, or slam the door when she left early in the morning. Her movement in general was thud thud too and she would often screech into the phone...

It was a ghastly experience and once I moved I didn't realise just how anxious I had become living there. I was the one with kids too!

Op, I am not saying this is you, but noise of this kind can really affect mental health, and while this neighbour sounds unreasonable and clearly isn't suited to apartment life, there is no doubt the noise levels must be high and often.

I have sympathy for both and anger over the overall lack of sound proofing in such dwellings - which really seems to be much more common that not.

Tell him to stop knocking on your door. I would
Also stop tiptoeing around so much- be reasonable, but don’t be trying to muffle your kids all the time.
If he doesn’t like it he can look into insulation, or move.

I wouldn't apologise to him, or explain that you will try to be quieter, he'd take it as proof you are doing something wrong.

I'd tell him to stop harrassing you, that the noise is normal family noise and that you can hear him just as clearly - go into some detail about what you can hear, at what times etc. Tell him that you don't complain because you appreciate he is living his normal life!

@HipsterMum

Thank you everyone for your responses. I will email the landlord again regarding the carpet installation and see what he can do. We ordered a bigger rug for the living room and both kids got rugs in their rooms where they play things like cars. I don't however think that will resolve much. Soundproofing is pretty bad in this block of flats . Right now I can easily hear people laughing upstairs and moving chairs and my other neighbour's phone vibrating constantly.

No, we are not from Edinburgh although I used to study there and absolutely loved it .

Regarding the comments that I should have arranged childcare and my son is bored and thats why he runs around like its some kind of a bad behaviour and not a normal thing for kids to do I probably won't reply to that. He can barely even talk he is 2. As I mentioned in the original post we are waiting for a place and he will be starting nursery next term.

You can hear something as quiet as your neighbours phone vibrating through your flat's walls . Can you not see how loud the sounds of your family life must be for your neighbour if you can hear a sound as quiet as that from somewhere else in the building.

@sashh

I think you need to go downstairs and have your DH get the children to run around to see how noisy / annoying it can be.

Lots of flats have rules about only having carpet because noise does travel down and it can amplify.

Once you know exactly what he is complaining about you can take appropriate action.

What ‘appropriate action’?

It is already the case that any noise is restricted to social hours, she minimises running etc by the kids to the extent possible and she has asked for carpets from her LL.

What further ‘appropriate action’ should she be expected to take?

“ You can hear something as quiet as your neighbours phone vibrating through your flat's walls . Can you not see how loud the sounds of your family life must be for your neighbour if you can hear a sound as quiet as that from somewhere else in the building.”

But what on earth do you expect OP to do about that. It’s not her fault that the building isn’t soundproofed.

The issue here isn’t whether the neighbour might be in a difficult position because the noise can be irritating. The issue is whether he’s being unreasonable heaping all of that on to OP.

Being irritated by normal noises isn’t unreasonable.

Constantly harassing the OP and expecting her to live in silence is unreasonable.

@TabithaTittlemouse

I don’t understand why you included that you are a ‘family of academics’ in your post?

Probably to show that they’re (a) quite quiet, and (b) pretty strapped for can so can’t afford to move.

OP your neighbour is totally unreasonable. Of course you have to hoover! And your kids need to move around! Definitely keep a diary of the harassment. And tell him he needs to stop it.

*cash not can!

Those sniping about the 'academic' detail, get the fuck over yourselves.

OP, you're doing nothing wrong; this is normal everyday noise at normal social hours. I live on the ground floor and can hear my upstairs neighbour (no kids, one adult) going backwards and forwards across his flat; there is often a 'banging' sound when he jumps up and hurries over to answer his door, etc. This is often later and earlier in the day than you say happens in your flat.

It's life in a block of flats and your neighbour will just have to deal with it. Obviously you can't take your kids to the park all the time.
And don't get carpets that they are allergic to (!). None of this would stop him complaining anyway, I'd put money on that.

I'd stop answering the door to him, and keep a record of every time he bangs on the door. Think about calling the non-emergency police for advice re harassment.
TBH he lost the argument and any sympathy from me when he complained about noise at 2pm and hoovering at 3 pm.

would do things like kick shoes off when she came in at night, or slam the door when she left early in the morning.
Christ, people in my own household do this sort of thing, before we even start on the neighbours.
How do some of you delicate flowers bear living in society? Or do you all live in houses with a moat round?

She was truly awful though, and would do things like kick shoes off when she came in at night, or slam the door when she left early in the morning.

This is a pretty idiosyncratic definition of 'truly awful'.

@HipsterMum. My sympathies. My two year old stomps too. I used to say "hello" to my neighbour but he blanked me and one day said we were too loud. He constantly banged at the slightest peep from 2 yo. I do take my kids out a lot for exercise. We were sometimes are out for 5 or 6 hours at a time yet my 2 year old would start playing and he'd immediately start banging. Like yours my children are good sleepers and my husband and I don't even watch TV much at night. He makes noise (at night) but we've never complained. Since my husband banged furiously back, he hasn't done it again. We now don't acknowledge each other at all If we are both going out, he hangs back in the stairwell if he knows i am there or waits in his car til I go inside. It's dreadful.

That's what you get for living in a flat. He should live somewhere else because there will always be noise. I live in an estate and all summer we hear kids playing outside - shouting, crying, screaming. My dog and other dogs bark a lot. My kids used to make a lot of noise when they were younger. I dont mind because it is part and parcel of living in this area. My parents hate noise so they live in the middle of nowhere.

I used to live in a flat and could hear our neighbour having sex most nights. Super irritating when you're trying to sleep so I started wearing ear plugs as you can't ask someone to change when they are having sex.

Loud music outside of reasonable times etc fair enough but normal movement, you can't change and hoovering at 3pm is absolutely fine.

@AngelinaFibres

Thud, thud, thud, thud ( small child's feet on floor) , bang of door, thud ,thud,thud, metal car hits wooden floor, followed by another 2 or 3, thud ,thud,thud, thud, scraping of chair feet on wooden floor, bang of fork and melamine dish hitting the floor, scraping of chair feet, clatter of box of lego bricks being tipped out on the wooden floor, scraping of a million small bricks as the perfect one is found,sound of adult and child/children's feet backwards and forwards at tidying time and then the bloody hoover starts. To you it is the normal sounds of family life. It will be nowhere near as loud to you because your furnishings and curtains will absorb a lot of the sound. The sound being transmitted down through the floor will be much , much louder . It would be a start if your husband went into the flat downstairs with your neighbour and listened whilst you did all the normal things you do. At least then you could hear what your neighbour hears.

But they are the sounds of normal life. Just because the building has inadequate soundproofing doesn't change that. Legally, people have every right to conduct normal living activities during daytime hours in their own home. It sounds like the neighbour made a mistake purchasing his flat when he's so sensitive to noise, but he has no right to make it anyone else's problem.

Sounds like he's unsuited to living in a communal building - suggest he sells up and buys somewhere with fewer people around, as he's never going to be able to control who lives in the flats surrounding his.

YANBU OP - your kids are allowed to walk and run in their own home, as long as they're not banging things, using scooters or screeching then they're fine.