Neighbour from downstairs doesn't stop complaining about my 2 year old.

[HipsterMum]

We are a family of academics with 2 boys who are 5 and 2 years old. We are currently renting a lovely flat in a large block of flats where the walls are quite thin. We can hear a lot happening in other flats and unfortunately, our neighbours from downstairs can hear us too. We are not particularly noisy, my husband is at work full time, my eldest child is at school and after school he is usually quietly playing with his toys. My youngest is still waiting for his place in the nursery and as I am currently working from home, I look after him in the house. He is not particularly noisy, we don't allow scooters, big cars around the house but he did just discover running so he does sometimes run from one room to another although we continuously tell him to walk gently. Yet he is still a child.

For 2 years we had no problem with any neighbours. The couples living next to us are lovely so is the elderly gentlemen who is completely understanding of some extra noise especially during school holidays and weekends. My kids are always in their bed at about 6.30 reading and then straight to sleep. They wake up normally at 7.30 am and we encourage them to do quite activities like drawing in the mornings. If they get too loud or start jumping off somewhere in the mornings for example on Sundays, we stop this straight away. They also wear soft slippers at all times.

A few months back an owner of the flat below ours decided to move back in (it was rented out before therefore we had no problems with previous people). He hasn't stopped coming up to us and knocking on our doors since. The first time he did it, we were all sick with covid for 10 days. He came on day 2 of isolation and asked us to take the kids out to the park as he couldnt listen to their little feet. When I hoover the floors at 3 pm , he starts banging. When my youngest runs to the loo he bangs. We had relatives over who we not seen for 4 years because of the lockdown and the kids were meeting them for the first time and were opening presents and being excited he was at our door at 2 pm on Sunday saying we have to tell our kids to simply stop walking because he cannot stand it.

We talked with our landlord about the carpets (we have some mats around but thats not enough) but he wouldn't pay for them and he doesn't want carpets permanently placed in this flat anyway. Furthermore, our eldest has got a bad dust allergy so carpets are really difficult, that's why I hoover quite a lot. We invested in a couple of more rugs but I don't think it will make much of a difference. He threatens us that he will continue to come and bang on our front door because he cannot enjoy his life because of our 2 year old. He says we are not being considerate of others and we should be able to tell our kids to stop because he can hear their steps from 9 am till 6 pm. But I cannot tie them up to their chairs or threaten to punish them each time they walk in the own flat. I am at my end with this man. This man suggests I tire them in the park because that's what real parents do (I doubt he ever had kids) but I cannot be with them in the park every weekend from 9 am till 6, can I? We are out most of the days and i do tire my youngest out with the scooter but kids still walk after the park.

What I am asking of all of you is what else can this neighbour actually legally do? What else can I do? My husband says I should not open the door when I am in the flat alone with the little one and tell the guy to stop this harassment. We don't mind moving somewhere else, possibly on the ground floor in the future but we enjoy this flat at the moment as it is right next to my sons school and we live a happy life here.

I understand many people don't enjoy children with their annoying little feet but bloody hell they are humans and not robots.

Sounds unreasonable to me. As for the suggestions of going down there to see how loud it really is - what's the point? I'm sure we've all heard this sort of noise at one point or another. Going down and listening to it isn't going to mean that her children will magically be able to levitate instead of walking on the floor in their own home. Yes, breaking a glass/vacuuming/opening doors/playing with toys will be noisy for people in the flat below, particularly if there is poor sound proofing and hard flooring in the flats. It's unfortunate but as long as you're making normal, everyday noise during normal hours (and encouraging your children to be considerate) then there is a limit to what you will be able to do.

@RegardingMary

Surely as part of 'a family of academics' you'll have the brain power to work it out. Or we're you insinuating that a family on benefits would be less mindful of their neighbours and obviously a massive working class scummy nuisance.

YANBU to let children make reasonable noise in the day in their own home.

I am not insinuating nothing. Thats what you are insinuating actually with your very post. You can actually pretty easily be an academic on a very unstable contract that does not get extended and you end up claiming benefits for a short period of time just to survive. That's what happened to thousands of academics during Covid pandemic. These days it doesn't guarantee you any kind of privilege really , something some posters on here seem to be accusing me of.

Then what relevance does being a family of academics have? Why mention it?

At best it's a stealth boast, at worst it's horrifically judgemental.

'He cannot enjoy his life'. Is the noise disrupting his 'self-pleasure'. Given the way he acts, I hope he is a single man.

As to the original question, I suppose he could claim noise nuisance to the Council (it's not a police matter). I expect they would probably reject his complaint.

I think it would be reasonable to view his behaviour as harrassment.

Your post sounds so familiar! We had a neighbour like this and his complaints were relentless and unreasonable. We contacted the police in the end and they told him if he continues he can be charged with harassment. That was the last time we heard from him!

Mummyford, what a nightmare.
TBH I think accommodating people like this at all is a mistake; they'll just keep pushing it.

IMO they lost their right to you making any kind of accommodation when they said they expected dead silence at 6pm for their 'couple time'. In the immortal words of Bernard Black, people like that can expect away!

No carpets does make it noisy for neighbours, although rugs may help. I lived in a flat and never heard the neighbour. When a family moved in, it was a nightmare even with carpets.

I'd speak to the landlord again saying you're receiving lots of complaints. Does the neighbour below have the same landlord?

I've been on both sides of this having always lived in flats, I've had an unreasonable neighbour - in tears or shouting at my door regularly over minor noise. I've also endured a toddler riding their bike running around the whole flat and jumping off the sofa onto laminate floors above me. Laminate floors are the devil, we ended up switching around our living room and bedroom as we were so tormented by upstairs! They tended not to make noise in their bedroom, so our bedroom below became our living room and we were spared the toddler jumping off the sofa booming noises that made the room shake.

I'd recommend that you have rugs where you can, ikea have some great and inexpensive options if you have any spaces with no rugs, buy thick carpet insulation and put it under them, not too expensive to do and will make a fair bit of difference. So you can do your bit...

But...ultimately this is everyday family noise at reasonable hours, tell the neighbour to no longer pick it up with you as you consider it harassment - you're doing what you can to reduce noise, end of...if they have a beef they can raise it with the council.

And can't believe the grief you are getting over saying you are an academic. Get over yourselves people!

@Hospedia

I took the "family of academics" thing to mean they're a "nice family" rather than a bunch of radge-packets.

So did I... he is being exceptionally unreasonable, I'd threaten with the police he's harassing you!

What is with everyone having their hands up their arses over the academic description? If OP had mentioned she was a barmaid and her her husband a binman, there would be probably posters wondering if they were a bit common for the poor neighbour!

@Anonykunt

And if anyone would have said 'you're a bit common and loud' in response they'd have been torn to shreds on here, and rightly so.

What your job is has nothing at all to do with how much noise you make. Just because someone someone working class doesn't mean they're not a conscientious neighbour.

People have some insane expectations when it comes to living in a flat. If you have people living above you in a building that doesn't have additional soundproofing etc, you will hear some noise, and a tiny child running around a bit during the day is totally normal. Of course you can take him to the park and so on to work off some energy, and I'm sure you do, but you can't take him out of the house for 12 hours a day! Yes, your neighbour will hear some noise below, but that's part and parcel of living in a downstairs flat. If he had a childless couple living above him, he'd still hear noise from them too.

I live in semi-detached place and I don't have any kids, but my neighbours have four and I hear a lot of noise from them, especially the youngest two and especially if they've got their little pals round to play as well. But I wouldn't dream of complaining because they're small children behaving perfectly reasonably in their own home and it was my choice to live in semi-detached.

If your neighbour was moaning about your telly or your music or something, or the noise was in the middle of the night, it would be a different matter, but he's complaining about normal family life happening during normal family hours and he is absolutely the unreasonable one in this scenario.

@DameHelena

Then you must be a family of savages. Kicking shoes off and allowing them to travel across wooden floors late at night makes you nothing short of a twat in my book. 'Savages' Aye, right you are.

I live in one of the busiest and most built densely populated cities in Europe, but yeah you know best
Spend a lot of time being furious with your neighbours then? Or have you intimidated them into silence?

Not at all. But the general consensus is CONSIDERATION.

I have lived in this city for 15 years. It was this one apartment I had issues with. The noise she made lacked any thought to her downstairs neighbours.

Funnily enough, I moved and the above neighbours have two kids but none of the belligerent noise that made us move from previous apartment.

You see, noise is one thing, but inconsiderate noise is another. We don't kick off shoes on wooden floors or slam doors. None of us scream down the phone either.

I suspect you have lived another way. If you knew inner city apartment living you would know consideration for effortless stuff like NOT slamming doors is basic civility.

Just to clarify I wouldn't mind if this neighbour approached us with something along the lines of ' look I am aware that soundproofing in these flats is really poor, maybe I can discuss this with your landlord directly and see if we can come to some kind of understanding'. But he's been coming up already 3 times and its consistently been about my youngest child walking non stop during weekend afternoons when he is trying to have a nice time. He never actually complained about work days because a few times we had my eldest's classmates over after school and they were being noisy but there was zero banging from him. It was me who suggested I contact my landlord and see what there is to do about the carpet/soundproofing situation. He never actually mentioned this specifically except that he said it was my duty to do something about my sons walking. I think he just doesn't like children very much

@PreschoolMum4 glad to know the police treat such behaviour as harassment. Hope OP it does not come to this but it is an option.

You see, noise is one thing, but inconsiderate noise is another. We don't kick off shoes on wooden floors or slam doors. None of us scream down the phone either. I don't think screaming down the phone is the same kind of noise as people kicking off their shoes on wooden floors (how the fuck are you supposed to do it? Go into a soundproof shoe-removal booth?)

I suspect you have lived another way. If you knew inner city apartment living you would know consideration for effortless stuff like NOT slamming doors is basic civility.
a) I said (lightheartedly, although I'm slightly regretting it now you've hove into view) that it was people in MY household who sometimes slam doors, so there's no argument to be had about it being civil or not towards neighbours.
b) Sorry Sherlock but you suspect wrong. I live in London zone 2, in a Victorian conversion with all the noise implications of one of those.
I'm on the lower-ground and first floors, so my household arguably gets the bulk of the noise from the neighbours –hoofing up and down the internal stairs, shared front door opening and closing/slamming, furniture being moved about, hoovering etc. Oh, and I can hear what I assume is a blender/food mixer next door too.
It's all everyday noise and if people don't like it, they need to use earplugs or live elsewhere.

@HipsterMum how are you an academic if you wrote the line: "am not insinuating nothing"?

Are you the mother or father if the children?

[quote RegardingMary]@Anonykunt

And if anyone would have said 'you're a bit common and loud' in response they'd have been torn to shreds on here, and rightly so.

What your job is has nothing at all to do with how much noise you make. Just because someone someone working class doesn't mean they're not a conscientious neighbour.[/quote]
You've completely missed my point.

[quote loveinthe90s]@HipsterMum how are you an academic if you wrote the line: "am not insinuating nothing"?

Are you the mother or father if the children? [/quote]
I made a typo because I was typing quickly on my phone. You are clearly not a detective though.

People who think saying you’re an academic is a boast have obviously never worked in academia.

@SleeplessInEngland

People who think saying you’re an academic is a boast have obviously never worked in academia.

This exactly. Thank you.

You're right, I'm not a detective! Well deduced!

Are you not in the UK?

Report him for harassment. You can't tie rhem up, it's normal family noise. If he can't put up with it he shouldn't be living in a flat.

NRTWT but have read all OP's posts.
Looks as though you've had a bit of a bashing on here and whether it's deserved or not... well, nobody knows how much noise your children make for the bloke downstairs except the bloke downstairs. It does sound as though he's being unreasonable though in not meeting you half way over him experiencing the noise in your flat and vice versa. I'm in a flat built of concrete and at the moment I can hear a pit pony with iron shoes on running up and down on their laminate flooring upstairs. I expect they think my husband has the TV too loud as he's a bit deaf - it's all part of flat living. As you say you hear plenty of noise around you, do you think he does as well? Does he complain about his other neighbours? Anyway, you're only renting so won't be there for ever and your landlord doesn't seem bothered - I'd be tempted to send him a solicitor's letter telling him to stop harassing you tbh!