Neighbour from downstairs doesn't stop complaining about my 2 year old.

[HipsterMum]

We are a family of academics with 2 boys who are 5 and 2 years old. We are currently renting a lovely flat in a large block of flats where the walls are quite thin. We can hear a lot happening in other flats and unfortunately, our neighbours from downstairs can hear us too. We are not particularly noisy, my husband is at work full time, my eldest child is at school and after school he is usually quietly playing with his toys. My youngest is still waiting for his place in the nursery and as I am currently working from home, I look after him in the house. He is not particularly noisy, we don't allow scooters, big cars around the house but he did just discover running so he does sometimes run from one room to another although we continuously tell him to walk gently. Yet he is still a child.

For 2 years we had no problem with any neighbours. The couples living next to us are lovely so is the elderly gentlemen who is completely understanding of some extra noise especially during school holidays and weekends. My kids are always in their bed at about 6.30 reading and then straight to sleep. They wake up normally at 7.30 am and we encourage them to do quite activities like drawing in the mornings. If they get too loud or start jumping off somewhere in the mornings for example on Sundays, we stop this straight away. They also wear soft slippers at all times.

A few months back an owner of the flat below ours decided to move back in (it was rented out before therefore we had no problems with previous people). He hasn't stopped coming up to us and knocking on our doors since. The first time he did it, we were all sick with covid for 10 days. He came on day 2 of isolation and asked us to take the kids out to the park as he couldnt listen to their little feet. When I hoover the floors at 3 pm , he starts banging. When my youngest runs to the loo he bangs. We had relatives over who we not seen for 4 years because of the lockdown and the kids were meeting them for the first time and were opening presents and being excited he was at our door at 2 pm on Sunday saying we have to tell our kids to simply stop walking because he cannot stand it.

We talked with our landlord about the carpets (we have some mats around but thats not enough) but he wouldn't pay for them and he doesn't want carpets permanently placed in this flat anyway. Furthermore, our eldest has got a bad dust allergy so carpets are really difficult, that's why I hoover quite a lot. We invested in a couple of more rugs but I don't think it will make much of a difference. He threatens us that he will continue to come and bang on our front door because he cannot enjoy his life because of our 2 year old. He says we are not being considerate of others and we should be able to tell our kids to stop because he can hear their steps from 9 am till 6 pm. But I cannot tie them up to their chairs or threaten to punish them each time they walk in the own flat. I am at my end with this man. This man suggests I tire them in the park because that's what real parents do (I doubt he ever had kids) but I cannot be with them in the park every weekend from 9 am till 6, can I? We are out most of the days and i do tire my youngest out with the scooter but kids still walk after the park.

What I am asking of all of you is what else can this neighbour actually legally do? What else can I do? My husband says I should not open the door when I am in the flat alone with the little one and tell the guy to stop this harassment. We don't mind moving somewhere else, possibly on the ground floor in the future but we enjoy this flat at the moment as it is right next to my sons school and we live a happy life here.

I understand many people don't enjoy children with their annoying little feet but bloody hell they are humans and not robots.

After reading the post I'm guessing English isn't the OPs first language and I'm wondering if there's an element of predujice involved in his harassment? Have you detected anything like that?

I would write him a letter to say that you will continue to be considerate of him in that you will try and avoid making excessive noise, but that he has to accept that being in a flat does mean that normal family noise is to be expected, and that you would consider any further contact from him as harassment. Tell him that you will be keeping a record of any contact he makes in order to take it to the police and that if he has any further concerns about noise then he needs to take it directly to your landlord.

I think it is relevant that they are academics, as in they will tend to be quiet when working from home, rather than a stonemason or an online dance instructor. Some people are just chippy for the sake of it…

@TabithaTittlemouse

I don’t understand why you included that you are a ‘family of academics’ in your post?

Stopped reading after that.

He has to expect normal living noise when living in a flat. It's not like you're blaring bass music or doing diy at 2am (like some neighbours I've had!)

I lived in a flat when my son was a baby and my neighbour upstairs used to complain about him crying. He had terrible colic and yes he cried a lot but I was doing my best. He was never left to cry etc.
Then when my son was a toddler the same neighbour used to complain about him laughing! Again it was just normal household noise. Some flats are just not fit for purpose when it comes to insulation from noise.

If he can't handle every day noise then he shouldn't be living in a flat. Don't be intimidated.
But I do understand the feelings as I've been in a similar situation. I moved in the end.

I took the family of academics to mean they might be new to the area or have a fixed term contract and likely to move on in a couple of years.

Sorry I did add that we are a family of academics simply because usually people prefer to know all the information they can from the original post. I put it down simply to avoid being asked if I am working or not if our youngest is not at the nursery. Perhaps that wasn't really needed

In addition, we do move quite a lot and like the flexibility renting offers us until we find the right place to buy. So cannot really pay for proper carpets in every property we live in.

So you think you’re better than other people because you are academics?

Do not so but same thing.

I voted yabu because of a past experience so i might be being unfair as it wasnt you. In the last flat we lived in, upstairs had a toddler. He ran and stumbled and hurt himself everyday. I'd brace myself when I heard his deafening running, for the inevitable stumble and then bawling. Also, the parents ran back and forth first thing in the morning getting ready for work. Presumably their sock drawer was the other side of the flat from their pants drawer. This would all be happening before 7am.

Now I have a toddler and she doesn't run or do anything but sleep before 7am. I also get my work clothes ready the night before so i can silently put them on and go before she wakes up (dh lies in with her before nursery run). We aren't in a flat any more bit it's interesting to see it can be done. Running in the house at antisocial hours is completely unnecessary

YANBU
The idiot in the flat below you is being completely unreasonable, the noise is normal living noise and there is nothing he can do about it. Plus your toddler is an innocent child who should able able to run about if he wants to.

However, you could threaten the nutter with the police if he refuses to stop knocking as he's being verbally agressive and get a crime number, inform the landlord and make logs, dates, times, incidents and duration so authorities can step in if they need to.

Hope this helps.

Do not write him a letter or otherwise give him any ammunition.

Get a Ring camera. And use your phone to video any encounter, and keep all videos in a file. Tell him that you are documenting his repeated abuses under the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

Does he approach your husband or just you?

Ps don't just tell him to walk gently. Get him out of the house to run around somewhere appropriate like a playground!!

Ps also yabu for looking after a toddler and working from home at the same time. He must be so bored no wonder he's running wild.

Sorry if I'm being harsh but I was that downstairs neighbour and I basically had a nervous breakdown after a few months of it

Weird fixation on the "family of academics" line.

Seriously OP just tell your landlord you're being harassed.

If you were so inclined you could also ask Mr. Downstairs - not when he's at the door whinging- what practical steps he thinks you would be able to take to mitigate noise. E.g. he always works in one particular room so could the toddler be kept out of the corresponding area of your flat during working hours.

Obviously it's tough shit if what he asks for is impossible but at least the asking shows you have asked for practical workable suggestions - if he has none, he just wants everything the way he likes it. You don't get that living in flats.

Can you hear his noise? Does the filthy bastard never hoover?

@Mummy1608

I voted yabu because of a past experience so i might be being unfair as it wasnt you. In the last flat we lived in, upstairs had a toddler. He ran and stumbled and hurt himself everyday. I'd brace myself when I heard his deafening running, for the inevitable stumble and then bawling. Also, the parents ran back and forth first thing in the morning getting ready for work. Presumably their sock drawer was the other side of the flat from their pants drawer. This would all be happening before 7am.

Now I have a toddler and she doesn't run or do anything but sleep before 7am. I also get my work clothes ready the night before so i can silently put them on and go before she wakes up (dh lies in with her before nursery run). We aren't in a flat any more bit it's interesting to see it can be done. Running in the house at antisocial hours is completely unnecessary

I specifically put that my children wake up at 7.30 am and are always encouraged to do something quiet until breakfast is ready. They are in their bed after 6.30 pm.

Unreasonable on both sides -if you live in a flat you have to expect to not live in silence, however, and I know this is on your landlord and not you, it’s BEYOND unreasonable to have hard floors in a flat

@hipstermum sorry I missed that timing.

Still I think you know that WFH while looking after your 2yo is the source of the problem. He needs interaction otherwise he will run wild.

Things will be better when he's at nursery. If you can, for DS's sake as much as your neighbour, try to get annual leave (or your dh could) until then??

Sounds like you’re doing a lot more than I’d expect to keep the noise down. For instance, why get rugs when your son has a dust allergy just because someone is complaining?

Don’t answer the door, don’t go in discussion, and record everything.

Give his the number for your local council noise team and tell him to direct any complaints he has to them. They’ll soon put him straight.

@Mummy1608

Ps don't just tell him to walk gently. Get him out of the house to run around somewhere appropriate like a playground!!

To let him run at the playground from 7.30 am till 6 pm in any state even if he is sick how is that a reasonable suggestion? He doesn't run much in the flat at all, his fast walking annoys the neighbour enough. Yes people can work from home and still manage to be caring parents who do things with their child. No, he is not bored.

Your academic background is irrelevant to the noise you are permitting your children to make. Try teaching your children that they since they live in a flat and not in a detached house that they are to remember that they have neighbours directly below and it is not fair.

@TabithaTittlemouse

I don’t understand why you included that you are a ‘family of academics’ in your post?

Yes I wondered that too 😂

OP you can't stop the noise of normal family life, your downstairs neighbour unfortunately just has to suck it up, that's part of flat living and he should have thought ahead when he bought a downstairs flat.

Speaking as someone who has to live beneath small children (who are lovely) in an upstairs flat with wooden floors and no carpet, who have very nice and considerate parents who we got on well with - the sound is torture. It’s just awful. I know they are children and of course they run and jump and get excited but gosh it’s horrible living below them.

I suggest you go down there and see how it sounds, I think you’d be surprised even with slippers/no shoes.
It should be illegal to not have soundproofing - without that your neighbour’s quality of life will be negatively impacted despite your best efforts. In fact is isn’t legal to build flats or even convert them without some soundproofing now but sadly no retrospective legislation.
Your neighbour may or may not be an arsehole but trust me the noise on wooden floors with no soundproofing will be awful for him and he may not be aware of how much you are trying to keep it down.