To say this pissed me off about my booking appointment ?

[chattycaterpillar]

I had a pregnancy booking appointment recently, and was talking to a friend about this yesterday, and she agreed this equally pissed her off about her's too, ( she had hers 12 months ago in the same NHS trust).

The actual medical questions were almost skimmed over, ( I wasn't asked if I had any medication allergies, even though I have a serious allergy to doxycycline). But the amount of nosy, social questions asked to "judge," your suitability to parent was ridiculous.

Examples on the proforma list included:

• How long have you been with your partner ? ( Yes, it is a long-term relationship so wasn't an issue for me, but my friend's child was conceived after a short fling and she didn't want to be answering exactly how long it was).

• What is your highest level qualification/ are you educated to degree level ? ( I'm educated to degree level, but interested in the medical relevance of this. Imagine getting asked that at any other medical appointment ...)

• Are you employed ? Is it full time work, what do you do for work ? What does your partner do for work ? ( Why on earth is it medically relevant what my partner does as his job ? )

• Does your partner have any other children ? ( No, but again, not medically relevant...)

• Do you own or rent your property ? ( Why, do you want to take a look at my mortgage deeds....)

Seemed to be a lot more interested in asking a list of nosy, intrusive questions than either a) a serious physical health condition I have that could impact the birth, or b) my medication allergies.

I'm just trying to work out in what other medical scenario this would be appropriate...

I remember these bizarre questions at mine, it was over the phone and not what I expected to be asked at all!

YABU. They are asked to check your support network and future environment for your baby. Professionals have a duty of care and if you were finding yourself in difficult circumstances they'd refer/signpost you accordingly.

Actually asking if your partner has other children is relevant from a safeguarding point of view. If he does you would be asked if he has contact with them and if not why not. Amazing how many don't have contact because of a spiteful ex and then you find out the history of domestic abuse. Not everyone has a straight forward life

I wasn’t asked any of those other than the dh other children which is relevant, genetic conditions etc.

To understand any hazards the baby and mother may be subject to e.g. insecure accommodation or work patterns. Domestic abuse. Such questions are ways of getting you to talk about your situation as a mother to be. Don't get such a bee in your bonnet.

Not sure but I think a lot of it is to do with trying to identify women at risk, particularly risk of domestic violence. But they’re not going to ask outright because most women wouldn’t admit to it.

Obviously there are many jobs that can be impacted by pregnancy. That’s exactly why employers should be doing a risk assessment for pregnant employees.

They are looking at if you'll need additional support

How long have you been with your partner ? ( Yes, it is a long-term relationship so wasn't an issue for me, but my friend's child was conceived after a short fling and she didn't want to be answering exactly how long it was).

Rough guide to if you'll have another adult supporting you with the newborn stage, which is hard enough as a couple let alone if you'll be a single parent

- What is your highest level qualification/ are you educated to degree level ? ( I'm educated to degree level, but interested in the medical relevance of this. Imagine getting asked that at any other medical appointment ...)

Will you be in a position to research and understand everything you'll need to know to care for a baby? Something like half the country has a reading age of a 12 year old or less - someone who struggled with GCSEs is likely to need more guidance than someone with a degree

- Are you employed ? Is it full time work, what do you do for work ? What does your partner do for work ? ( Why on earth is it medically relevant what my partner does as his job ? )

Not medically relevant, but picks up if you might need signposting to benefits/ other financial support

Does your partner have any other children ? ( No, but again, not medically relevant...)

If so, they will have prior experience of how to look after a baby (also, may need to find out if social services have been involved as they will need to make a referral if so)

- Do you own or rent your property ? ( Why, do you want to take a look at my mortgage deeds....)
Again, looking at financial stability and the likelihood of you staying locally. Also, gets around asking whether you're homeless without specifically asking

The midwife is there to support you through pregnancy until a few weeks after the birth. That doesn't just cover the bare minimum needed for medical reasons. They won't be asking just to be nosy. They have contacts with other services that can give help where needed, but they need to find out when it's needed and people generally won't volunteer the info themselves

Oh and they also wanted to know my partner's date of birth. Why ?! I've been for surgery before under anesthetic and they've never asked that. My partner and I are the same age, (29), but my friend sad it's for them to have a nosy at unsuitable age gaps.....but if i'd have said my partner was 60, what would they actually be able to do ?!

I agree to a point, some questions are helpful in establishing the psychosocial background which does help. But they should have been more thorough with the medical history. Maybe it would be helpful if they had a prefer not to say option?

Some of it is data collection which does matter on a population level when looking at who is more likely to breastfeed, who is more likely to have a miscarriage or still birth etc.

Some is looking at your support or potential safeguarding. You'd be amazed the number of times the response to asking about the father's other children is along the lines of "yes, not sure how many, he doesn't see them, I don't know why" which means we have to go find out why in case it is due to social services involvement.

All the questions are relevant even if not medical. Though I would expect you to be asked about allergies.

Some things are collected for statistics too.

But yes, it is relevant if your partner has other children.

Also some of those questions help to identify families where extra support needed. You can decline to answer 🤷🏼‍♀️

Maternity services are seen as a bit of a gateway - the staff are trying to ensure you are in a safe environment to be having a baby. They have a duty of care to you and the baby. I remember them asking all sorts of questions like this when I had my children, including whether I felt safe at home. Try not to take it personally.

@annonymousse

Actually asking if your partner has other children is relevant from a safeguarding point of view. If he does you would be asked if he has contact with them and if not why not. Amazing how many don't have contact because of a spiteful ex and then you find out the history of domestic abuse. Not everyone has a straight forward life

You see whilst I personally would not be in a relationship with somebody who had children they chose not to see, I think it's completely unprofessional for a HCP to be quizzing an expectant mother about why her partner doesn't see his other kids. If he is a shit dad, he should be the one getting stick, not her.

Of course you will be asked about your partners other children.....they are your child's family .....pregnancy is often w trigger for DV ...so you will be asked about your relationship.....your well being is important....but your child's well being is n9w being taken onto consideration....can his parents provide for him...Will he be in a safe environment .....Will his parents prioritise his needs....its not all about you anymore

You know you don’t have to answer these questions right? Also, there’s no such thing as an “unsuitable” age gap, I’ve no idea where your friend got that idea.

@chattycaterpillar

Oh and they also wanted to know my partner's date of birth. Why ?! I've been for surgery before under anesthetic and they've never asked that. My partner and I are the same age, (29), but my friend sad it's for them to have a nosy at unsuitable age gaps.....but if i'd have said my partner was 60, what would they actually be able to do ?!

Are you being deliberately obtuse or just ridiculously hormonal tonight?

It's to help with assessing the risk of abnornalities in your baby, perhaps focus in particular on discussing various tests with you and also to consider if maybe your partner os likely to be either on a young side or very old and frail and not sufficiently supportive for that reason, as pps said the newborn stage is tough on all involved.

They're far too busy to be gathering unnecessary info about every pregnant woman.

How long have you been with your partner ?

Relevant for the level of support you have, is it a stable relationship

• What is your highest level qualification/ are you educated to degree level ?

Data capture that gives the government statistics to what sort of demographic children are born into.

• Are you employed ?

Can you support your child, does the midwife need to signpost you to services that may help you, universal credits, child benefit, etc

• Does your partner have any other children

Who do they live with, are social services involved and if so why? Very common to have domestic violence relationship where the father can not see the children and he hops to another woman and starts a new family and she is completely in the dark

• Do you own or rent your property ?

No we don’t, but do you have a secure tenancy or are about you lose your home, again can you be offered further support

I'm just trying to work out in what other medical scenario this would be appropriate...

Domestic violence usually starts in pregnancy
Children under 1 are the most vulnerable category
Unfortunately some people become pregnant and do not have a job, home, or any support

You won’t be asked in any other medical profession until you become pregnant or are a mother, it’s no longer just about you.

Women generally are very forthcoming with medical conditions but not so much safeguarding information.

A bit of advice though, you and your friend could have asked the midwife why she wanted to information and it would be my suggestion that you ask about EVERYTHING, be very passionate about your pregnancy and always ask questions!

Good luck

You seem determined to see the worst in the midwife. If it's because you didn't warm to her, you may be able to see a different one (although practicalities are likely to be harder).

Most people go into midwifery because the want to help new mothers and their babies - they aren't doing any of it to judge you

Partners employment... picks up things such as military spouses... in our case DH was deployed pretty much the whole pregnancy including the birth so it signposted extra support needed.

Can you honestly, hand on heart, not see the relevance of these questions? You keep referring to them as not being “medically relevant” - having a baby is wildly different to popping into hospital for surgery. They are looking at the bigger picture.

Your first point of contact (if no previous children) is Midwifery, they are essentially then a gateway for referral making if necessary, to a range of agencies, to ensure you get the correct support (medically and otherwise) throughout pregnancy and beyond.

They are checking to see that you are:

A. Capable of looking after a baby
B. Well supported
C. Financially stable/signposted to benefits appropriately
D. Not in an abusive relationship of any sort

You’re in for a shock if you let the Health Visitor come round for their antenatal visit!

Congratulations though [fowers]

It's not about the expectant mother getting schtick. It's about knowing she is not at risk of dv/da herself. 1 in 4 women are victims of domestic abuse in their lifetimes and pregnancy can be a trigger point. If he has previous history it's a risk assessment.

Okay OP.

So let’s say you say ‘yes he does have 2 other children’ and MW says ‘lovely and does he have contact with them?’ and you say ‘no he went to court but couldn’t get any visitation’ - I’m going to start wondering why.

I’m going to wonder why a court won’t allow a man to see his children. So I’m going to dig a little deeper. I’m going to ask you why. You might not know, maybe you do know, but the safeguarding team who I ping an email to will.

Every so often there are women out there who truly believe their partner doesn’t see his kids because of XYZ. When actually, he doesn’t see his kids because he is on the sex offender register. Or because he beat their mum so badly she lost the ability to work. Or he abducted his kids. Or he used his children to pay off a debt. You know. That sort of thing.

Don’t ever think your booking appt is your midwife being nosey. If you’re going to be abused, assaulted or murdered in your life you are most likely to have these things happen to you when you are pregnant or just postnatal. The person most likely to harm you is the man you decided to have a baby with. We’re trying to keep you safe.

That’s all.

You’re bringing an entire new human into the world, it’s not just about you like your previous appointments have been. If you don’t want to answer the questions then say so, but I don’t understand how you don’t see that they’re relevant from practical and safeguarding points of view.

Clearly that was meant to be ffs 🤦🏻‍♀️

To add to the DOB for your partner, it has nothing to do with his age, again its to establish his identity, many women are in a position where they need help and we have this info on file.

And your last statement, no one will not be quizzed about it unfairly, but there is a duty of care.

You will also have an antenatal appointment with a health visitor towards the end of pregnancy and she will go through ALL of this again with you