To say this pissed me off about my booking appointment ?

[chattycaterpillar]

I had a pregnancy booking appointment recently, and was talking to a friend about this yesterday, and she agreed this equally pissed her off about her's too, ( she had hers 12 months ago in the same NHS trust).

The actual medical questions were almost skimmed over, ( I wasn't asked if I had any medication allergies, even though I have a serious allergy to doxycycline). But the amount of nosy, social questions asked to "judge," your suitability to parent was ridiculous.

Examples on the proforma list included:

• How long have you been with your partner ? ( Yes, it is a long-term relationship so wasn't an issue for me, but my friend's child was conceived after a short fling and she didn't want to be answering exactly how long it was).

• What is your highest level qualification/ are you educated to degree level ? ( I'm educated to degree level, but interested in the medical relevance of this. Imagine getting asked that at any other medical appointment ...)

• Are you employed ? Is it full time work, what do you do for work ? What does your partner do for work ? ( Why on earth is it medically relevant what my partner does as his job ? )

• Does your partner have any other children ? ( No, but again, not medically relevant...)

• Do you own or rent your property ? ( Why, do you want to take a look at my mortgage deeds....)

Seemed to be a lot more interested in asking a list of nosy, intrusive questions than either a) a serious physical health condition I have that could impact the birth, or b) my medication allergies.

I'm just trying to work out in what other medical scenario this would be appropriate...

I'd take state nosiness any day over failure to protect only one vulnerable person.

Honestly, state nosiness sounds like conspiracy theory bullshit.

Anyway, they only ask you all these questions to distract you whilst they install the microchip.

I’d answer any questions whatsoever if it meant that support went to those who needed it. They have to dig deep and ask probing questions, most people in abusive relationships or financial difficulty aren’t going to just sit down and confess that to a midwife out of nowhere, most can’t even admit it to themselves.

When I first started teaching (1989) I had an unqualified TA doing work experience for a few months. She was 17, pregnant and from an abusive home. She was hoping to get a flat and was entirely open about getting pregnant to get away from home . She had no GCSEs, no support from a partner, no settled home life and she smoked heavily . She was convinced that smoking would give her a small baby that was easier to give birth to. I had a baby 5 years later. My situation was a world away from hers. Surely you would want her situation flagged up for the sake of both her and her baby. There are also many people who would outwardly look as if they have it all. That may well not be the case.

You’re pissed off now? Wait until the final few weeks - you’re tired because baby has you up several times a night, you’re uncomfortable, you’re trying to finish stuff at work before maternity leave, finish stuff off at home before the baby comes, possibly in pain, possibly had some complications by that point and extra appointments and you look like shit (no sleep, uncomfortable). That’ll trigger a lot of questions about your mental health and the state of your relationship, whether there are any concerns and if you’re getting the support. Then it’ll continue as baby is here. You’ll take baby for jabs and in a 15 minute appointment you’ll be asked if you’re really ok, how you’re getting on and if there is support at least twice.

You can choose to take this as a personal attack or you can recognise it for what it is 1) data collection and 2) safeguarding. The data collection element helps to inform future support sessions, future funding and research. The safeguarding screening is best done to every woman and you’re in a privileged position if you can’t see how it’s relevant. I take the view that I would rather be asked about my support and mental health 1,000 times than one woman and baby slip through the net either on the domestic violence side or the mental health side.

I don’t remember these kind of questions being asked at all - but my booking app is a bit of a blur, I had terrible nausea. She was happy to skip the healthy eating questions I think I said I don’t want to talk about food. The only personal question as such was when she took me out to the scales to be weighed and asked about domestic violence, which is fair enough.
YANBU though I do think. Many of the questions you’ve mentioned don’t bare on whether you are a suitable parent.

The questions may seem intrusive but look at it from another angle op . When things go terribly wrong with babies and children particularly in DV situations there's always a backlash of 'they should make you have to pass a test to have a baby' type comments and thought the midwife is NOT trying to test out you as a mum she is seeing if you need any extra support in preparation or later for becoming a mum and particularly with young babies and children there is a lot of risk and it's always better to be over cautious to minimise risks. A good example is my dad and brother are bipolar so I had a few appointments with a mental health midwife when pregnant and when baby was born as I was more vulnerable to post natal depression - I didn't have it but the support was put in place just in case from those initial questions .

I jave 3 kids and have been asked the same questions here. Like a previous poster said don't compare professional judgement with prejudice, it isn't the same thing. My dh couldn't understand why all of those questions were necessary till I told him that research shows a motters level of education does have a correlation with more positive outcomes for baby. I also told him to use his noggin and think you should have used yours and asked why at the time or taken the time to think about it. The fact that you think they were being nosey or judegy reveals a lot about you and how you view interactions with hcp, rhw midwife isn't asking rhe questions because she personally cares, uts a screening process to help women.

I was asked if we were cousins it must just be a question they ask everyone so as not to cause offence to asian people. It irked dh which I thought was stupid because whilst we aren't many people still do marry first cousins and that leads to a whole host of issues. I think you are being a bit judgey yourself!

It's not being nosy, I guarantee that personally the midwife doesn't give a hoot about your answers. It's to signpost if necessary to any additional support as stuff can take time to access. Plenty of appointments for medical stuff, they tend to do that more when the 12 week scan has been and everythings confirmed to be progressing nicely.

Pull yourself together and stop being so obtuse.

You are not the only woman they ask these questions to and every single one of those questions will be relevant to someone. They can’t just ask the people that live in certain areas or the people who’s clothes that don’t look quite as tasteful as they think is right.

If neither of you were asked the questions that you were expecting then perhaps it is because that will be done at a different time. There is a schedule of what is asked at what appointment. If I were a midwife I would be worrying about getting you through the early stages before worrying about whether or not you might need a c-section.

@babywalker56

Also, supposing I had said I'm single/ baby conceived via a one night stand, only been together for a few weeks, what actual support could they refer you into for that ?

Literally what support could they give you? None.

I've had my fair share of interesting questions that makes me think what the hell but the one that gets me recently is health professionals asking if my kids have the same dad....

I have a 10 month old and I'm 36 weeks pregnant. So I got pregnant with my second when my first was only 3 months. Every single health professional I've come into contact with (except for my GP) has asked if they have the same dad. They do have the same dad but what exactly are they going to do if they didn't? Raise an eyebrow at me, jot it down and move onto the next question?

I personally stuggle to see how that question is asked in a way to help and support you rather than to judge you. It 100% is to judge you

@babywalker56 This is also medically relevant. Eg if you had pre-eclampsia in your last pregnancy, the risk of recurrence depends on whether your next pregnancy was with the same dad

From this point on OP you will be treated, at many appointments, as if you are secondary to the thing you are growing inside you. Think of it as the appointment being for the baby - you are the no1 person on team baby, but the team is there for the baby.

As so many people have explained these questions are indicators of the amount of support likely to be needed for your baby. They aren’t judgemental of you - they’re not even about you, they’re about your growing baby.

If it helps, I remember feeling very judged with pregnancy no 2 (very soon after baby no 1) with a host of questions about how I’d cope, all around family relationships and how often I saw them (relationships fine but don’t see them much). It resulted in being gently asked if I’d like a referral to a charity called Homestart who would assign someone to help a couple of hours a week. I gratefully accepted and was massively appreciative of the support they gave. (Bloody loved Homestart days!)

It's quite clear, from the amount of professionals who have answered your questions and tried to reassure you that you're not going to understand the relevance of the questions, and maybe just have an issue with the Midwife/the system in general? Or, due to your lack of comprehension, are exactly the person that the Midwife is trying to assist by asking these questions?

I've had to be the one asking those questions before. Believe me, we don't enjoy asking them, and ideally they should explain what the questions are for.

Maybe be grateful that you can answer those questions and the answers are pretty run of the mill? Because by asking those questions I have identified:

A mother in a new relationship, whose partner had been in prison for shaking his ex's child. She didn't know.

A couple who were first cousins, who wanted to have extra screening (didn't realise they could) and whose baby was identified as incompatible with life and they were then given choices and options they may not have been aware of.

A military spouse who was literally about to move to Germany. Because we knew this information we gave her all her information, photocopied and signposted her to what she would need to do maternity care wise when she moved.

Oh, and also, God forbid anything happened to her at an appointment when he was deployed, we had his regiment and battery details so we could make contact with him. Hope you don't think that's too invasive either?

We've identified a 23 year old mum whose partner was 60. Turns out he wasn't her partner at all but her sex trafficker.

Conversations around housing have led my colleagues to be able to provide letters of confirmation of pregnancy to help women get better accommodation.

Conversations around financial concerns help us signpost to benefits.

Do you feel safe at home/how is your relationship? We should be asking this at every appointment because we know statistically that women don't access help the first time they're asked,and we have helped women in violent circumstances.

The fact that YOU don't see the relevance of the questions probably means you're in a bit of a privileged position, but we have to ask them to help people who aren't in such rosy circumstances.

If you have an issue how about you raise it properly through the Midwife or through PALS?

Women with lower levels of education as an example appear more in MBRACE reports which is the report about maternal mortality.

A lot of this is safeguarding related also, plus general stats.

Trust me, as a midwife we have no interest in nosing in your personal life for the fun of it.

Years ago women were pissed off they were being asked about domestic abuse questions, because how dare they. It’s completely routine now as it should be.

Intrusive questions - Back in the early 1960s, as a young woman of 20 I was asked at a job interview "have you got a serious boyfriend?" and "do you live at home with your parents?". The required answer to the first was "no", and to the second, "yes".

My children and grandchildren are horrified at this. Times change, thankfully. Why are pregnant women subjected to this sort of inquisition?

The questions are to help and protect your baby.

You sound like you have a massive chip on your shoulder. Professionally offended.

Can you really not fathom why they might want to know if you have a partner? If you're employed? Secure housing? Wake up.

@BadgerB

Intrusive questions - Back in the early 1960s, as a young woman of 20 I was asked at a job interview "have you got a serious boyfriend?" and "do you live at home with your parents?". The required answer to the first was "no", and to the second, "yes".

My children and grandchildren are horrified at this. Times change, thankfully. Why are pregnant women subjected to this sort of inquisition?

Have you actually read the whole thread?

My sister is a midwife, I was honestly shocked about the amount of safeguarding issues on her caseload. You and I are lucky that we have supportive partners but many women don't. Also if you just ask very blunt questions eg are you suffering from dv? Women will often lie.

Regarding the 'are you related to your partner?' question - that's probably because there have been instances of this in whatever primary care Trust you live in and therefore they ask everyone - this obviously would have medical implications for the baby so they need to know.

I think if this approach was combined with a more personalised for the mother rather than a conveyor belt one it might feel less intrusive. There is a bit of a tendency to treat pregnant women like they're just vessels for the baby, I've seen that attitude on this site too to be fair.

The fact that you have your own health needs that may affect the type of birth you will need should at least be acknowledged even if it's not yet the time to go into detail.

@PurBal

You know you don’t have to answer these questions right? Also, there’s no such thing as an “unsuitable” age gap, I’ve no idea where your friend got that idea.

It’s a red flag for abuse if the woman is much much younger

Do you honestly think the NHS has time and resources to ask questions purely to judge and shame you? Orrrrrrrrr do you think all the many other posters here who’ve explained why the questions are asked might be on to something?

Your response is honestly a bit worrying and odd.

@InTheNightWeWillWish

You’re pissed off now? Wait until the final few weeks - you’re tired because baby has you up several times a night, you’re uncomfortable, you’re trying to finish stuff at work before maternity leave, finish stuff off at home before the baby comes, possibly in pain, possibly had some complications by that point and extra appointments and you look like shit (no sleep, uncomfortable). That’ll trigger a lot of questions about your mental health and the state of your relationship, whether there are any concerns and if you’re getting the support. Then it’ll continue as baby is here. You’ll take baby for jabs and in a 15 minute appointment you’ll be asked if you’re really ok, how you’re getting on and if there is support at least twice.

You can choose to take this as a personal attack or you can recognise it for what it is 1) data collection and 2) safeguarding. The data collection element helps to inform future support sessions, future funding and research. The safeguarding screening is best done to every woman and you’re in a privileged position if you can’t see how it’s relevant. I take the view that I would rather be asked about my support and mental health 1,000 times than one woman and baby slip through the net either on the domestic violence side or the mental health side.

This. Agree so much that you are lucky that you don’t even understand why these questions are necessary to keep some women safe. You actually think midwives want to waste their time having a ‘nosy’?! You come across as immature, but I’m sure having a baby will help you grow up a bit.

@USaYwHatNow

It's quite clear, from the amount of professionals who have answered your questions and tried to reassure you that you're not going to understand the relevance of the questions, and maybe just have an issue with the Midwife/the system in general? Or, due to your lack of comprehension, are exactly the person that the Midwife is trying to assist by asking these questions?

I've had to be the one asking those questions before. Believe me, we don't enjoy asking them, and ideally they should explain what the questions are for.

Maybe be grateful that you can answer those questions and the answers are pretty run of the mill? Because by asking those questions I have identified:

A mother in a new relationship, whose partner had been in prison for shaking his ex's child. She didn't know.

A couple who were first cousins, who wanted to have extra screening (didn't realise they could) and whose baby was identified as incompatible with life and they were then given choices and options they may not have been aware of.

A military spouse who was literally about to move to Germany. Because we knew this information we gave her all her information, photocopied and signposted her to what she would need to do maternity care wise when she moved.

Oh, and also, God forbid anything happened to her at an appointment when he was deployed, we had his regiment and battery details so we could make contact with him. Hope you don't think that's too invasive either?

We've identified a 23 year old mum whose partner was 60. Turns out he wasn't her partner at all but her sex trafficker.

Conversations around housing have led my colleagues to be able to provide letters of confirmation of pregnancy to help women get better accommodation.

Conversations around financial concerns help us signpost to benefits.

Do you feel safe at home/how is your relationship? We should be asking this at every appointment because we know statistically that women don't access help the first time they're asked,and we have helped women in violent circumstances.

The fact that YOU don't see the relevance of the questions probably means you're in a bit of a privileged position, but we have to ask them to help people who aren't in such rosy circumstances.

If you have an issue how about you raise it properly through the Midwife or through PALS?

Completely this.

Maybe if they'd asked my mother these questions in the 80's she'd have got more support, the question about the father having contact with existing children being particularly relevant. It wouldn't have stopped her having babies with my arsehole father, but it may have been a flag for PND, which she went onto develop, largely due to the lack of support from my arsehole father.

From this point on OP you will be treated, at many appointments, as if you are secondary to the thing you are growing inside you.

That's nonsense.

And the opposite is true. The pregnant woman is the patient. The baby is secondary (in terms of being a patient, not of course in terms of care).

You also seem put out that the midwife wasn't interested in a 'condition that means you are likely to need a C-section'. In the kindest way, this won't be of significant interest until you're past the midway mark in pregnancy. I am sure you can work out why. Good luck with your pregnancy and your future new baby. It's not just a medical event - touches every aspect of your life.