LGB vs LGBTQI etc

[Whoistheexpert]

Why was the T (and others) ever added to the LGB acronym?

The T (trans) is surely related to gender and not ones sexual orientation?

Am I missing something 😵‍💫

Book burning, no platforming, eugenics and people shouting at each other over their belief in souls floating about, souls which can land in the wrong bodies. In 2022. Progressive?

There’s no such thing as cis! Thinking your born in the ‘wrong body’ is a mental illness. It has no effect on biological fact.

"No it's not, it's the opposite in fact, I'm confident in my identity". So confident that you think you are only a subset of woman.
I am very sorry for the suffering someone experiences with gender dysphoria. They deserve help and support and services to deal with it. It is not fair to make me give up single sex spaces or women only shortlists or a place in women's sport just to make them feel better.

Also, given that the OP used the letters "Queer" is a vile insult. Intersex is an outdated term for a medical condition

Do you feel #blessed for being white too @Cheetocat ?

What else do you feel privileged and guilty about? Being born relatively wealthy? Being educated? Having enough food to eat and a roof over your head?

How are you atoning for all those?

The T was added in the 90s if my recollection is accurate. There were quite a lot of effeminate gay men who wore womens clothes in my social circle. There were some beautiful butch lesbians who were proud to be lesbians, trans men were not really a thing. There were no openly straight people with different gender identities.

Things have changed a lot. I am glad I’m not dating these days. I feel nostalgic for the lesbian bars and clubs of old!

@gigglewater

Gender STEREOTYPE non conforming kids are given puberty blockers. some go on to have sex realignment surgery. These treatments makes those children sterile adults. This is eugenics, re marketed.

Tonnes of children take puberty blockers for many reasons, trans children are probably the smallest group who take them. Once they stop taking them they can have a perfectly natural and normal puberty. It's not scary at all. You have to be an adult to consent to surgery so if it was just a phase or whatever they'd be long done with the blockers before it got to that.

The sight of young lesbians butchering their bodies in service to this craze rather than being proud lesbians makes me weep

"Once they stop taking them they can have a perfectly natural and normal puberty. " - you know that's NOT what happens, right?

Current gender ideology says being trans is not about dysphoria, you don't need it to be trans, just thought it was worth a mention.

Anyway - I think a lot of the posts are circling around the real question in the OP which is - why would T - gender - be part of the same lobby group as LGB, given that they represent totally different things?

And that makes perfect sense even if you totally accept the whole idea of gender identity. If it's not about same sex attraction, why would it get added into a group that lobbies about people with same sex attraction? Why would they have the same interests?

You could ask the same about the I for intersex and in fact groups representing people with DSDs have made it very clear they do not want to be part of the acronym.

We have different groups to represent people with something in common that means they might need to lobby as a block. SOmetimes you can group people a little - the disabled might include people with poor mobility, the blind, etc. But if they had some kind of disagreement about a way forward it would seem clear that such organizations would take a step back and they would have to speak through organizations that represented them separately.

Other than the fact that some trans people might also be attracted to people of the same sex, and are also LGB, just like a blind person might be LGB, why would they have a lobby organization in common?

@bellinisurge

The sight of young lesbians butchering their bodies in service to this craze rather than being proud lesbians makes me weep

But yet you'd like to alienate them by fostering divisions between LGB & T ?

That's not a good way forward.

@Clymene

Do you feel #blessed for being white too *@Cheetocat* ?

What else do you feel privileged and guilty about? Being born relatively wealthy? Being educated? Having enough food to eat and a roof over your head?

How are you atoning for all those?

I'm not one but guilty but I'm empathetic and understanding of my privilege, I can go out in the world and be seen as a woman without being judged for it or feeling unsafe. I haven't had privilege in many other areas which is probably part of the reason I can put myself in other peoples shoes. I don't need to atone, I'm not hurting anyone.

@bellinisurge

The sight of young lesbians butchering their bodies in service to this craze rather than being proud lesbians makes me weep

I agree. The sense of PRIDE in who we are, is something I would love to see return. A deep sense of worth that is not dependent on hormones or surgery.

I’m not here to get involved in the trans discussion, I just have a question about words.

@bellinisurge can you please explain to me the peadophile background to cis?

I always thought cis was a Latin word meaning ‘same side of’ as opposed to trans. Like in chemistry you get cis isomers and trans isomers. Is this not where it come from???

@MangyInseam

Current gender ideology says being trans is not about dysphoria, you don't need it to be trans, just thought it was worth a mention.

Anyway - I think a lot of the posts are circling around the real question in the OP which is - why would T - gender - be part of the same lobby group as LGB, given that they represent totally different things?

And that makes perfect sense even if you totally accept the whole idea of gender identity. If it's not about same sex attraction, why would it get added into a group that lobbies about people with same sex attraction? Why would they have the same interests?

You could ask the same about the I for intersex and in fact groups representing people with DSDs have made it very clear they do not want to be part of the acronym.

We have different groups to represent people with something in common that means they might need to lobby as a block. SOmetimes you can group people a little - the disabled might include people with poor mobility, the blind, etc. But if they had some kind of disagreement about a way forward it would seem clear that such organizations would take a step back and they would have to speak through organizations that represented them separately.

Other than the fact that some trans people might also be attracted to people of the same sex, and are also LGB, just like a blind person might be LGB, why would they have a lobby organization in common?

Pasting this again:

The feminism boards here are generally pretty transphobic but even they note there can be crossover and a complex picture when they refer to detransitioning natal females who later feel that lesbian ID fits better for them than transman.

Kicking those people out of the community during the time they originally identified as trans would be deeply harmful for them.

@LizDoingTheCanCan

For those of us who were around for Section 28, trans was nothing to do with us.

Who are 'us'? What right do you have to speak for others?

The LGB voice doesn’t belong to one person.

The ‘us’ is those in the gay community who agree with @LizDoingTheCanCan

You no doubt will find others who agree with your views.

Such is life. Both are valid positions. Both can speak for their own ‘us’.

Many trans people don’t agree with your views. What right do you have to speak for them?

@Poomba

I’m not here to get involved in the trans discussion, I just have a question about words.

@bellinisurge can you please explain to me the peadophile background to cis?

I always thought cis was a Latin word meaning ‘same side of’ as opposed to trans. Like in chemistry you get cis isomers and trans isomers. Is this not where it come from???

Yes, it's just the opposite of trans.

"But yet you'd like to alienate them by fostering divisions between LGB & T ? "
Nope. They should be happy to be lesbians or gender non conforming straight women rather than mutilate their bodies. Having your breasts removed is not the same a a bit of Botox before anyone starts with that bullshit.

@bellinisurge

Ah yes, the "do some research " position. Always a winner. Got bad news for you, the generation coming after you thinks this is all tedious bullshit

They really do don't they, it'll be interesting to see how this axis turns, what with all the court cases surely to come in a number years from young girls that went on T and had double mastectomies, all because they were a confused teen, why we couldn't just tell them that's how all people feel growing up. I honestly think there will come a time when people looked back and wonder what on earth was going on, or at least I hope so.

The T in LGBTQ+ is not a new 'thing'. It stands for Trans. The LGB community are accepting of trans people. They are included. I do not understand why straight people, or people who are not trans feel it necessary to understand or try to explain why trans people do not deserve to exist.

These type of posts are inflammatory and unnecessary. A person's genitals does not define that person, and it is frankly weird that straight people seem to have such a perverse obsession with trans people. Just let them be.

Volkmar Sigusch, a paedophile "philosopher" coined the term "cis" . Nice company you keep

I'm not speaking for trans people @Annette32123. In the same way I don't expect them to speak to me. Is just like my POV to be respected rather than being told that men can be lesbians and I'm a horrible transphobic bigot for knowing that isn't true.

At one time some transwomen were included within the LGB by virtue of the fact that they were understood to be gay men, and things like discrimination against them was essentially a form of homophobia

Exactly. They were homosexual transexuals, not straight male cross dressers, AGP'S or teenage girls suffering from poor mental health and social contagion.

I'm a cis woman though, there's a lot of privilege that comes with being able to say that

Absolute bollocks. Men are the oppressor class. They oppress women on the basis of our sex.
Some men have convinced gullible women they they are privileged just for being women.

Look at all those bending over backwards to justify why a privileged, straight, white man was allowed to take a women's gold medal in swimming just because he said the magic words 'I am a woman'.
The female competitors can't even speak the fucking truth for fear of being kicked out of college. When they complain that he's in their changing rooms flashing his penis they are silenced and threatened.

So remind me again how exactly these women have your imaginary 'cis' privilege?
A man's FEELINGS being given priority over women's reality is the fucking definition oppression.

A man is in no fucking way oppressed because he wants to wear a dress.

@bellinisurge

The sight of young lesbians butchering their bodies in service to this craze rather than being proud lesbians makes me weep

So you pity transmen but transwomem are scary and greedy or something according to most people here? All of the trans people I know (dozens) have suffered from crippling dysphoria leading to losing friends, psych ward visits, suicide attempts etc.. why would that happen if being trans isn't a real thing? Why would they feel healthier after transitioning? I'll pee in a cubicle next to the hulk if it means people can identify as their preferred gender.