LGB vs LGBTQI etc

[Whoistheexpert]

Why was the T (and others) ever added to the LGB acronym?

The T (trans) is surely related to gender and not ones sexual orientation?

Am I missing something 😵‍💫

And people who like Brie, don't be exclusionary!

This is a useful review

mbmpolicy.files.wordpress.com/2021/04/mbm-briefing-on-dhjene-et-al.-april-2021-1.pdf

That's excellent, haven't seen that review. I still have concerns about relying on it due to its limitations and the fact that the population is likely to be a very different one now.

As far as I am concerned, LGB are all the letters.
They are based on same sex attraction.

TQA is unrelated and imo, completely damaging.

@nothingcomestonothing

Wow, we're on ladybrains being proved by science now

Back to the OPs question - how do TQI++ belong with LGB? Why is it transphobic for LGB to have separate organisations, lobby for different for different things, when sexuality and identity are different things?

It's like me starting an organisation for French nationals living in the UK, and then adding people who would like to be French, people who are thinking of a holiday in France, and people with a French-sounding last name. And then being called phobic for not centring Italians.

Thanks for bringing it back to the original questions.

Putting the debate regarding women’s safety aside just for the sake of the focus of this post - it appears there is a wide range of LGB posters here who are concerned or simply disappointed by the centralising of T within their communities.

In contrast, those who are unbothered or even supportive of T do tend to be speaking more from personal or anecdotal experience and less concerned about the wider concerns many have around female erasure and the loss of single sex spaces.

For me personally, I find the constant focus on T quite overshadowing of LGB which is all about sexuality and frankly nothing to do gender identity - certainly not in todays world.

Being shamed into accepting that male sex individuals are now female sex individuals, even if they have male genitalia feels like being part the Emperors New Clothes.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

That's excellent, haven't seen that review. I still have concerns about relying on it due to its limitations and the fact that the population is likely to be a very different one now.

Yes it’s a useful unbiased summary.

Interesting data on transmen and not what I would have expected.

But clearly women only spaces are needed as much as even and all men and transmen and transwomen should respect that. No woman would disregard the safety of other women so if “transwomen are women”, they should prove it by staying out of women only spaces. That’s what a woman would do.

Are people bringing up the study that showed that ( post surgical , reggonised psychological disorder type ) transwomen brain scans showed evidence of trauma in their life , and because women are much more likely than men to have experienced trauma they also show evidence of that trauma in their brains at a greater rate than men hence the spurious suggestion that transwomen brains are like women

In fact transpeople brains were like both men and women brains where the people has experienced trauma

The link was the trauma and not the gender /sex

I Believe the authors had to issue a correction for clarity as it was being misrepresented so often

Begs the question about why women are so much more likely than men to have experienced trauma

I came out over 25 years ago and at the time was rather baffled by the T being in LGB spaces - but mostly the MtFs stayed in gay venues so I frequented lesbian spaces more. Transmen were never problematic in those spaces; no idea if they were also in gay venues. But those transwomen who did come into women only bars were intrusive and demanding, often laying guilt trips onto the women there about how vulnerable and in need of friendship they were and how awful their lives were.

Having just discovered lesbian spaces I was realising how much space men take up beyond their physical presence, in any place they occupy - and the same was true of transwomen in lesbian spaces. You could have been there for hours having a lovely time and within minutes of a transwoman arriving the atmosphere changed and they were demanding to be centred (overtly or covertly). At the time I was young and kind and felt bad at how many women would simply walk out when they arrived, but now I understand. And of course those spaces no longer exist, because they became more and more vocal and problematic until the lesbians stopped going there and the businesses went under.

I feel so sorry for young lesbians today.

And people who like Brie, don't be exclusionary!

I'm sorry . I'm deeply ashamed, and I will educate myself, and do better. Of course all people who like brie are French, and I was wrong to imply otherwise.

@nothingcomestonothing

And people who like Brie, don't be exclusionary!

I'm sorry . I'm deeply ashamed, and I will educate myself, and do better. Of course all people who like brie are French, and I was wrong to imply otherwise.

Including Somerset Brie.

And anyone who likes scrumpy cider. Because that’s from Somerset too.

Why on earth do we have to describe ourselves as CIS women?

@DuvetHugger

Why on earth do we have to describe ourselves as CIS women?

I don't and never will. I refuse to be a subset or a variant of my own sex class in order to show subservience to a lie.

Indeed, I am not referring to myself as ‘cis’ - I am not a different category of woman. Woman IS the category.

I agree with your latest post @Whoistheexpert

I am old enough to campaign against Section 28. Gay, lesbian and bisexual people didn't disadvantage anyone else by campaigning for the rights to live their lives without prejudice, get support at school around their sexuality, marry the one they love and adopt children.

I'll defend the rights of disadvantaged people fiercely, but I won't be involved with a movement that seeks to advantage themselves by stamping on the rights of another disadvantaged group.

This is the kind of crazy shit that is going on. Women and lesbians in particular getting discriminated against because someone doesn't like how they think..

[quote doublemonkey]This is the kind of crazy shit that is going on. Women and lesbians in particular getting discriminated against because someone doesn't like how they think..

[/quote] Good grief that is incredibly depressing.

It does illustrate the cancel culture / TRA wokery very well.

@PenStation

I agree with your latest post *@Whoistheexpert*

I am old enough to campaign against Section 28. Gay, lesbian and bisexual people didn't disadvantage anyone else by campaigning for the rights to live their lives without prejudice, get support at school around their sexuality, marry the one they love and adopt children.

I'll defend the rights of disadvantaged people fiercely, but I won't be involved with a movement that seeks to advantage themselves by stamping on the rights of another disadvantaged group.

Yes - that is what it seems to be coming down to really, more fighting off mens entitlement to our bodies and now our minds and even our sex class.

It’s like a totalitarian patriarchy on steroids, with swathes of young people high on wokery and cancel culture.

It’s making me want Charlie Brooker to create a new episode of Black Mirror!