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Original poster

LGB vs LGBTQI etc

518 replies

Whoistheexpert · 22/03/2022 20:04

Why was the T (and others) ever added to the LGB acronym?

The T (trans) is surely related to gender and not ones sexual orientation?

Am I missing something 😵‍💫

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
MangyInseam · 22/03/2022 22:19

Kicking those people out of the community during the time they originally identified as trans would be deeply harmful for them.

I'm not sure why you think this is relevant, no one is talking about this. Anytime a person changes their thoughts about who they are, it can mean a period where they do not fit totally in any clear place. This can happen with sexuality as well. That's ok, and in general people aren't looking to disown such people immediately, or they shouldn't be, though of course it can happen. In time it usually becomes clearer.

But that is not in any way related to what I asked, which is why you would include sexuality and gender identity within the same grouping, any more than you would consider being a woman and a black person as they same thing? They are different, why group them together? Why would they lobby together politically as a block?

Whatsnewpussyhat · 22/03/2022 22:19

The T was added in 2015 because Stonewall were given a lot of money to do so.

bellinisurge · 22/03/2022 22:20

"A person's genitals does not define that person, and it is frankly weird that straight people seem to have such a perverse obsession with trans people. Just let them be."
Is an idea which is being exploited by predatory men who want access to women when they are vulnerable. Because they know that the women will be put together n the wrong. Never happens? Woman raped on a single sex ward. The hospital denied it because they said only women were on that ward. Took them a year to admit that one of those "women" was a man.

Theluggage15 · 22/03/2022 22:20

I’m quite happy to let trans people be. Unfortunately they don’t want to let women be do they? They want to barge in to every female only space and humiliate women. I’m bloody sick of hearing how women should give up stuff for selfish men like the appalling Lia Thomas

Ionlydomassiveones · 22/03/2022 22:21

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn at the poster's request.

Theluggage15 · 22/03/2022 22:22

I don’t want to pee next to a male so men can feel’validated’.

TracyMosby · 22/03/2022 22:22

If anyone demands access to another person's body that is assault or rape, and would be dealt with as such in a criminal capacity
This has to be the most ridiculously stupid comment on here. Just goes to show how out of touch some people are. The people who are ‘dealt with’ are the minority.

bellinisurge · 22/03/2022 22:23

"So you pity transmen but transwomem are scary and greedy or something according to most people here? All of the trans people I know (dozens) have suffered from crippling dysphoria leading to losing friends, psych ward visits, suicide attempts etc.. why would that happen if being trans isn't a real thing? Why would they feel healthier after transitioning? I'll pee in a cubicle next to the hulk if it means people can identify as their preferred gender."

I pity anyone who has to take drastic medical action to feel more comfortable with themselves. I don't want a dick in a space where I don't expect there to be one, especially if I am in a vulnerable situation in that space. You may be comfy but it's pretty arrogant of you to think everyone is

Original poster
Whoistheexpert · 22/03/2022 22:24

@Katypyee

The T in LGBTQ+ is not a new 'thing'. It stands for Trans. The LGB community are accepting of trans people. They are included. I do not understand why straight people, or people who are not trans feel it necessary to understand or try to explain why trans people do not deserve to exist.

These type of posts are inflammatory and unnecessary. A person's genitals does not define that person, and it is frankly weird that straight people seem to have such a perverse obsession with trans people. Just let them be.

Haven’t seen anyone in this thread say that trans people should not exist.
OP posts:
Cheetocat · 22/03/2022 22:26

@Ionlydomassiveones

“Got bad news for you, the generation coming after you thinks this is all tedious bullshit.”

Yep and they’ll grow up like we all did and look back at the cause they were sooo passionate about and realise they were brainwashed into promulgating a lie that actually harms women and girls and will have devastating long term consequences. People cannot change sex. Fact.

In that case, how do you know you wont realise you were wrong about this topic in a few years if things you're passionate about can suddenly change? You know this trend of women gathering together and acting victimised by all trans people is fairly recent?
PenStation · 22/03/2022 22:26

Yes this was my experience as well.

At one time some transwomen were included within the LGB by virtue of the fact that they were understood to be gay men, and things like discrimination against them was essentially a form of homophobia

Exactly. They were homosexual transexuals, not straight male cross dressers, AGP'S or teenage girls suffering from poor mental health and social contagion.

Cheetocat · 22/03/2022 22:28

@bellinisurge

"So you pity transmen but transwomem are scary and greedy or something according to most people here? All of the trans people I know (dozens) have suffered from crippling dysphoria leading to losing friends, psych ward visits, suicide attempts etc.. why would that happen if being trans isn't a real thing? Why would they feel healthier after transitioning? I'll pee in a cubicle next to the hulk if it means people can identify as their preferred gender."

I pity anyone who has to take drastic medical action to feel more comfortable with themselves. I don't want a dick in a space where I don't expect there to be one, especially if I am in a vulnerable situation in that space. You may be comfy but it's pretty arrogant of you to think everyone is

Are you going to petition that mum's stop changing their little boys in the ladies bathrooms too? What about kids they are out alone with? What if they're an adult but shorter than you? Shock
bellinisurge · 22/03/2022 22:29

You cannot create a sacred caste and give them unfettered access to vulnerable women. Not all priests, male teachers, male social workers, male sports coaches are sexual predators . But you don't accept them into places where women and children are vulnerable without checking and safeguarding. And that doesn't always work.A priest saying "I'm safe because I'm a priest" isn't enough. So why is "I'm safe because I'm a transwomen " enough?

bellinisurge · 22/03/2022 22:31

"Are you going to petition that mum's stop changing their little boys in the ladies bathrooms too? What about kids they are out alone with? What if they're an adult but shorter than you? "
Little boys haven't been through puberty.
An adult who is my sex but is shorter than me is an adult who is my sex.

Cheetocat · 22/03/2022 22:32

@bellinisurge

You cannot create a sacred caste and give them unfettered access to vulnerable women. Not all priests, male teachers, male social workers, male sports coaches are sexual predators . But you don't accept them into places where women and children are vulnerable without checking and safeguarding. And that doesn't always work.A priest saying "I'm safe because I'm a priest" isn't enough. So why is "I'm safe because I'm a transwomen " enough?
But previously in the thread someone pointed out that lesbians are just as likely to commit crime as men are, should lesbians be kept out of women-only spaces too? I have never actually been somewhere and thought "phew, there's only women here", it doesn't cross my mind.
bellinisurge · 22/03/2022 22:33

"You know this trend of women gathering together and acting victimised by all trans people is fairly recent?"
Because until recently, men couldn't insinuate themselves easily into women's spaces and call any woman who objected a bigot

Cheetocat · 22/03/2022 22:34

@bellinisurge

"Are you going to petition that mum's stop changing their little boys in the ladies bathrooms too? What about kids they are out alone with? What if they're an adult but shorter than you? " Little boys haven't been through puberty. An adult who is my sex but is shorter than me is an adult who is my sex.
Puberty can begin at age 9 in boys though, would you prefer them to go in the gents alone?
bellinisurge · 22/03/2022 22:35

"But previously in the thread someone pointed out that lesbians are just as likely to commit crime as men are, should lesbians be kept out of women-only spaces too? I have never actually been somewhere and thought "phew, there's only women here", it doesn't cross my mind."
Someone tried to argue that lesbians are as likely to be violent sexual predators as men. And were told that this was bullshit. Yes there are women, gay or straight who do harm but not at the overwhelming rates that men do.

bellinisurge · 22/03/2022 22:36

"would you prefer them to go in the gents alone?"
Why? What's wrong with the gents?

suggestionsplease1 · 22/03/2022 22:36

@MangyInseam

Kicking those people out of the community during the time they originally identified as trans would be deeply harmful for them.

I'm not sure why you think this is relevant, no one is talking about this. Anytime a person changes their thoughts about who they are, it can mean a period where they do not fit totally in any clear place. This can happen with sexuality as well. That's ok, and in general people aren't looking to disown such people immediately, or they shouldn't be, though of course it can happen. In time it usually becomes clearer.

But that is not in any way related to what I asked, which is why you would include sexuality and gender identity within the same grouping, any more than you would consider being a woman and a black person as they same thing? They are different, why group them together? Why would they lobby together politically as a block?

This is entirely relevant.

It shows the one person can straddle 2 identities (or more) at different points in their lives.

According to the segregationist philosophy being touted here those people, at their most vulnerable points, should be made to feel unwelcome in their community.

You appear to want to 'ungroup' them at the time they are probably struggling the most.

You appear to want to pit them against their former or future identities.

If a person who previously identified as a transman now identifies as a lesbian do you think they suddenly care any less for other transmen and their rights? Or can only conceive that because they feel that a lesbian ID now fits them better that every transman out there is misguided?

Human groupings and their fights towards rights are not about reductive concepts but the varied and complex people that form them.

Cheetocat · 22/03/2022 22:37

@bellinisurge

"You know this trend of women gathering together and acting victimised by all trans people is fairly recent?" Because until recently, men couldn't insinuate themselves easily into women's spaces and call any woman who objected a bigot
They still can't and I don't get why the existence of single gender spaces is such a big deal in the first place, are you worried trans women are going to take your partners? Have you been personally victimised by a trans person? I most certainly haven't. Plenty of cis men have made me feel unsafe though.
Cheetocat · 22/03/2022 22:40

@bellinisurge

"would you prefer them to go in the gents alone?" Why? What's wrong with the gents?
I don't like the thought of kids going into any closed off public space alone, that's all.
bellinisurge · 22/03/2022 22:40

"They still can't and I don't get why the existence of single gender spaces is such a big deal in the first place, are you worried trans women are going to take your partners? Have you been personally victimised by a trans person? I most certainly haven't. Plenty of cis men have made me feel unsafe though."

If my partner wants to sleep with a transwoman or trans man they are free to do so. As long as they end their relationship with me. Similarly another man or woman.
This "are you worried we're prettier than you" is just more tedious mean girls bullshit that I have no interest in.

RoseslnTheHospital · 22/03/2022 22:42

@Cheetocat I have a 9 year old DS, he goes to the mens on his own. I think that's a very normal behaviour for boys his age.

I find your comment about having "cis" privilege to be able to go about your life as a woman without being judged for it or feeling unsafe to be very naive. Do you think that women generally are able to go about their lives without being judged or feeling unsafe?? Just look at the numbers of women and girls who report being sexually harassed, at school, in the workplace, whilst out and about. That's before we get into the issue of levels of male violence against women. Or the girls that are killed in utero or at birth for being female, or sent to unsanitary and unsafe huts every month due to menstruating. Or subject to FGM. So many things. All such a "privilege".

bellinisurge · 22/03/2022 22:43

As for 9 year old boys going through puberty in women's spaces. I'm not going to do a hormone check nor am I going to go a genital check. Nor is anyone else. It is for the responsible female adult they are with to judge whether it's still appropriate for them to be there.