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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

LGB vs LGBTQI etc

518 replies

Whoistheexpert · 22/03/2022 20:04

Why was the T (and others) ever added to the LGB acronym?

The T (trans) is surely related to gender and not ones sexual orientation?

Am I missing something 😵‍💫

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
TheGrinchsDog · 23/03/2022 22:22

Number of sexual partners I have had - that should have read.

Whoistheexpert · 23/03/2022 22:25

@MarieIVanArkleStinks

Thank you, you’ve articulated exactly how I feel.

OP posts:
TheMarzipanDildo · 23/03/2022 22:28

I feel sad that I can’t be part of my own community because I’m not sexist enough to believe in gender, yes.

TheKeatingFive · 23/03/2022 22:38

Perhaps the more vociferous brand of activism is waking up to the realisation that aggression and intimidatory tactics are not the right way to go about winning friends and influencing people. It's hardening the position of people like me, who were once natural allies and until recently would have been horrified at the idea of taking such a line. But the fact that I've now taken it fault of the agitators, not mine. I've been backed into this position. I've been re-labelled against my will in a way that I object to, seen 'woman' regress into all-but dirty word, and been constantly, forcibly, aggressively reminded of the consequences of my non-compliance.

This is a really excellent point

suggestionsplease1 · 23/03/2022 22:58

@EpicGem

I'm part of the community and I don't feel that we've been hijacked. Neither do any of my friends in the community. However, I guess our views don't matter and we're all brainwashed sheep who just go along with what Stonewall say for fear of being ostracised. I spent many years being ostracised by straight people for not fitting in. I know how it feels to be judged as "not normal" or a "freak". If disagreeing with some people and saying trans people are not hijacking our community is gong to see me ostracised by them, I couldn't care less. I don't want to be part of such a judgemental community.
Exactly
suggestionsplease1 · 23/03/2022 23:01

@Allandnothing

I mean, why listen to the comments of actual LGBT+ people on here when you can read what the straight people think about trans people…
Haha! Too true right?

God, it gets so boring...and wearying... on mumsnet....you can feel the monopolisation, domination of discussion that is so at odds with the community we know!

Thank god people are finally speaking up

suggestionsplease1 · 23/03/2022 23:08

Sometimes you see a flurry of identikit anti trans posters around 3am or so...I'm never really sure if they're a transatlantic anti-trans pact community who have been called to arms or if there is some sort of auto posting bot or something...I don't really know how it works.

mudgetastic · 23/03/2022 23:10

Grief it gets so boring that the anti women activists come on here spouting nonsense because they can't actually get any facts to support their hatred of women

Clymene · 23/03/2022 23:11

@Allandnothing

‘ In my day, a man was a man and a woman was a woman. A gay woman was attracted to women, and a gay man was attracted to men. Simple.’

And you’re actually gay? I hate to break it to you but that has NEVER been the way the gay/lesbian/ bi community worked. And I say that as an old school, boring old lesbian. We have always had a spectrum.

It's how it has always worked in my world. You know - the one founded on biological reality where gay men like cock and lesbians like pussy. And bisexual people are up for both.

Crude, but true.

suggestionsplease1 · 23/03/2022 23:12

@mudgetastic

Grief it gets so boring that the anti women activists come on here spouting nonsense because they can't actually get any facts to support their hatred of women
Why don't you respond to the points I have made in my posts?
mudgetastic · 23/03/2022 23:18

Sorry I missed anything logical

Theluggage15 · 23/03/2022 23:18

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

suggestionsplease1 · 23/03/2022 23:19

@mudgetastic

Sorry I missed anything logical
Maybe work on your comprehensions skills?
Clymene · 23/03/2022 23:22

Which post are you referring to @suggestionsplease1? I haven't seen anything that warranted a response in your recent posts.

Allandnothing · 23/03/2022 23:24

‘ Well that’s what some men are doing when they’re saying they’re women, ’

Indeed, but that doesn’t mean kicking out the ‘T’ from LGBT - predators are predators, and they are mainly heterosexual men living in the heterosexual community and abusing women.

mudgetastic · 23/03/2022 23:26

I am confident that I have Pretty good comprehension skills

my ability to get to the essence / cut through crap is well recognised IRL if that's not too identifying

Annette32123 · 23/03/2022 23:27

@suggestionsplease1

Nah I’ve searched too - it’s you.

mudgetastic · 23/03/2022 23:27

Heterosexual men

Says nothing about their gender identity

Theluggage15 · 23/03/2022 23:29

Yeah, you missed the point. Enabling men to get easy access to female only spaces by just trilling I’m a laydee makes it more uncomfortable and possibly dangerous for women. Like the male who raped a woman in hospital. No rape took place because there aren’t any men here.

suggestionsplease1 · 23/03/2022 23:29

@Clymene

Which post are you referring to *@suggestionsplease1*? I haven't seen anything that warranted a response in your recent posts.
I have made several pertinent points that remain unaddressed.

I have had no adequate explanation for why it would be homophobic for a person to start a thread encouraging others to post about all the news stories detailing all the crimes committed by lesbians, eg

news.sky.com/story/gareeca-gordon-woman-who-murdered-friend-after-sexual-advances-rebuffed-jailed-for-life-12296606

but it is apparently not transphobic to do the same with crimes committed by transwomen, as per 'it will never happen' FWR Mumsnet.

Can you explain more on this point?

mudgetastic · 23/03/2022 23:37

I answered that question already

You are claiming a false equivalence by misrepresenting the purpose of thread

Yes it lists crimes by transpeople

In response to the statement that transpeople do not commit offences

The title is the clue.. it will
Never happen.. except ...

Context - when it comes to comprehension and analysis context is so important

suggestionsplease1 · 23/03/2022 23:41

@mudgetastic

I answered that question already

You are claiming a false equivalence by misrepresenting the purpose of thread

Yes it lists crimes by transpeople

In response to the statement that transpeople do not commit offences

The title is the clue.. it will
Never happen.. except ...

Context - when it comes to comprehension and analysis context is so important

This is a really facile response.

Why would you, or anyone, think that there exists a human demographic where no belonging individual has ever committed a crime?

I mean, if you, or anyone, has entertained that in this first instance than something has clearly gone wrong.

mudgetastic · 23/03/2022 23:46

Well yes obviously there is no group with no crime

Unfortunately we are repeatedly told that we have nothing to fear from transwomen

Yet we repeatedly see that there is no evidence at all that transwomen have a different offending profile to men

As shown by the thread

Clearly we have as much to fear from transwomen as men

Which implies that there is no reason to treat men differently to transwomen

suggestionsplease1 · 23/03/2022 23:59

@mudgetastic

Well yes obviously there is no group with no crime

Unfortunately we are repeatedly told that we have nothing to fear from transwomen

Yet we repeatedly see that there is no evidence at all that transwomen have a different offending profile to men

As shown by the thread

Clearly we have as much to fear from transwomen as men

Which implies that there is no reason to treat men differently to transwomen

Really poor logic.

I mean for anyone to say you have' nothing to fear' from one thing or another, is just commonplace language and semantics over statistical accuracy...

I could say you have little to fear from air travel. (That is more accurate than nothing to fear)

I would broadly be right, planes are apparently the safest way to travel.

But of course you could still get on a flight that would kill you.

Yet we repeatedly see that there is no evidence at all that transwomen have a different offending profile to men

What is the "repeatedly" that you refer to? It makes it sound like you have several studies to hand - can you list them please?

Did you see the response from the lead author of the one study that is frequently cited to support what you are referring to?:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043071/

Cecilia Djehne. In the interview, she notes that in
fact:
“The study as a whole covers the period between 1973 and 2003. If one divides the
cohort into two groups, 1973 to 1988 and 1989 to 2003, one observes that for the latter
group (1989 – 2003), differences in mortality, suicide attempts, and crime disappear.
This means that for the 1989 to 2003 group, we did not find a male pattern of criminality.
As to the criminality metric itself, we were measuring and comparing the total number of
convictions, not conviction type. We were not saying that cisgender males are convicted
of crimes associated with marginalization and poverty. We didn’t control for that and we
were certainly not saying that we found that trans women were a rape risk. What we
were saying was that for the 1973 to 1988 cohort group and the cisgender male group,
both experienced similar rates of convictions. As I said, this pattern is not observed in
the 1989 to 2003 cohort group.
The difference we observed between the 1989 to 2003 cohort and the control group is
that the trans cohort group accessed more mental health care, which is appropriate
given the level of ongoing discrimination the group faces. What the data tells us is that
things are getting measurably better and the issues we found affecting the 1973 to 1988
cohort group likely reflects a time when trans health and psychological care was less
effective and social stigma was far worse.”

Take you logic and let apply it to lesbians

Whatsnewpussyhat · 24/03/2022 00:05

Why would you, or anyone, think that there exists a human demographic where no belonging individual has ever committed a crime?

The point is that males claiming to be women are as likely to commit the same violent sexual crimes as the rest of their sex class. The sex class that commit 98% of all sex offences. Meaning they are the same risk as other men. They should therefore not be exempt from the same safeguarding rules as other men just because they are trans. That means they should stay out of female only spaces.

People who spout the line that 'women commit crimes too' as an excuse to allow males into female spaces are intellectually dishonest. Women as a sex class just don't pose the same threat to other women that men do.

That thread was made because women are fucking sick of the pretence that this group of men are harmless and "no men would ever abuse self ID to attack women and children" Hmm and also sick of these very male crimes being disguised as being committed by 'women'. Funny how they are quick to drop the prefix to hide men's crimes.

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