LGB vs LGBTQI etc

[Whoistheexpert]

Why was the T (and others) ever added to the LGB acronym?

The T (trans) is surely related to gender and not ones sexual orientation?

Am I missing something 😵‍💫

@nothingcomestonothing

Since no one seems to want to answer my question upthread about Danielle Muscato, perhaps they'd like to explain how it is that Fionne Orlander manages to routinely use men's public toilets, yet apparently transwomen couldn't possibly do this?

Who said transwomen are not routinely using female toilets? They are, do, and have done for centuries.

What has changed is the social convention by which transwomen who make every effort to 'pass' are ignored and tolerated. Because some aggressive male fetishists have spoiled things.

Shame, but here we are.

@Ijustreallywantacat

Any female can use the female facilities.

Right. So if the above men asked you which way the toilets were, would you point to the men's or the women's? Or would insist on a quick grope first?

If the above men walked in to the ladies toilet, would you allow them to use the facilities in place?

Transmen would usually prefer to use gender neutral or male toilets, which isn’t issue. They are no risk to anyone. And they generally don’t want to make women feel uncomfortable. Because they are female and not entitled dicks.

It’s female spaces that must be protected from men. Men don’t need protected spaces.

@EpicGem

I'm part of the community and I don't feel that we've been hijacked. Neither do any of my friends in the community. However, I guess our views don't matter and we're all brainwashed sheep who just go along with what Stonewall say for fear of being ostracised. I spent many years being ostracised by straight people for not fitting in. I know how it feels to be judged as "not normal" or a "freak". If disagreeing with some people and saying trans people are not hijacking our community is gong to see me ostracised by them, I couldn't care less. I don't want to be part of such a judgemental community.

But that’s good. It’s important some women self select into gender neutral facilities to make the transwomen feel comfortable there. You can be those women.

The rest of us can use the ladies.

And the vast majority of male offenders aren’t likely to be transwomen.

@BiscuitLover3678

And the vast majority of male offenders aren’t likely to be transwomen.

I think quite a few male offenders have already proved you wrong, by realising that claiming to be trans is a neat little loophole by which they can access women's spaces. Karen White springs to mind

@Throckmorton

Er yes, if you have a penis you must use the mens. Women need, and have a legal right, to single-sex spaces

Exactly - men know if they have a penis. It doesn’t need to be policed. They just need to have penis free facilities and penis facilities. Perhaps one can have a picture of a dick on it. And the other can have a picture of a dick with a big red X on it. Then it doesn’t matter what anyone is called.

@BiscuitLover3678

And the vast majority of male offenders aren’t likely to be transwomen.

How could the vast majority of male offenders be transwomen? It’s not unlikely, it’s impossible unless you think half of all men are transwomen.

Or are you suggesting they might tell lies?!

In ‘men lie’ shocker……

@Ijustreallywantacat

Or at least we did have that right until a few years ago... I'm not sure how successful such a complaint would actually be now.

You still have that right. If anyone is behaving in a threatening or intimidating way, you absolutely have that right. I, nor would any trans person i know, would not want that right taken from you.

But that's not what people on the while usually say on here. They are absolute. If you have a vagina, you MUST use the ladies. If you have a penis, you MUST use the mens. Even if nobody notices you are trans. I'm really glad to hear your measured thoughts.

Perhaps you would answer my question about Brian? What would you do if Brian walked in to the ladies while you were in there?

If anyone is behaving in a threatening or intimidating way, you absolutely have that right

You don't appear to understand the long-term psychological damage that many women have suffered at the hands of men. The male person wouldn't have to be behaving in a threatening or intimidating way to make women feel unsafe. They just have to be there - standing in the ladies loos where they are not expected to be. That is enough to scare some unfortunate women shitless.

But that's not what people on the while usually say on here. They are absolute. If you have a vagina, you MUST use the ladies

I have not seen anyone say this. People with vaginas are not the issue - they can use whichever toilets they want.

Perhaps you would answer my question about Brian? What would you do if Brian walked in to the ladies while you were in there?

Honestly, I don't know. I have never actually seen such a masculine looking person in a female toilet. I expect I would go into flight/freeze mode. I doubt I would challenge them - a lifetime of fearing for my safety around men who appear to be a threat. This person WOULD appear to be a threat if they were in the ladies, because they look like a man.

But this is entirely hypothetical. A transman such as this would not choose the female toilet.

@Anotherofthesame

Many of us do indeed fee hijacked and have moved over to the LGB alliance.

Which has been lambasted as a 'hate group', despite having never disseminated any material that could legally or by any definition of plain language be interpreted as hate speech.

Just as women are branded 'bleeders' and expected to cede over our protected spaces because another group's rights are deemed more important than ours. Bisexuals (of which I'm one) are not pansexuals. 'Gender' doesn't factor into why I'm attracted to particular people, but the terms of that attraction are mine and I'm not about to have them dictated to me. People are also at liberty to reject me as they see fit without my claiming that they are bigots.

Trans rights are human rights. I fully endorse this. They are not women's rights. Trans needs and the necessary means of meeting those needs are different to those of women. It is not transphobic to suggest this.

Perhaps the more vociferous brand of activism is waking up to the realisation that aggression and intimidatory tactics are not the right way to go about winning friends and influencing people. It's hardening the position of people like me, who were once natural allies and until recently would have been horrified at the idea of taking such a line. But the fact that I've now taken it fault of the agitators, not mine. I've been backed into this position. I've been re-labelled against my will in a way that I object to, seen 'woman' regress into all-but dirty word, and been constantly, forcibly, aggressively reminded of the consequences of my non-compliance.

Your right to swing your fist ends where my nose starts.

@Ijustreallywantacat
You are confused. Nobody cares if women choose to use shared facilities. That is their personal choice. The objection is only to men, including transwomen, using female facilities. Why would we care if women choose to use gender neutral facilities?

Who said transwomen are not routinely using female toilets?

I think you misread my post - Fionne uses the men's toilets despite looking like Fionne does. Because Fionne isn't a dick.

@BiscuitLover3678

And the vast majority of male offenders aren’t likely to be transwomen.

This is true. Most offenders don't bother putting on a dress before they rape or assault a woman.

However, if a predator sees that donning a 'transwoman' appearance will allow him to reach more victims more easily, of course he will do it. Why wouldn't he?

Transmen are generally mindful not to cause anxiety to women. They are not a problem. They would most likely self select out of the ladies facilities. And if they chose to use them they would notice if a woman looked uncomfortable. And act accordingly. Because women notice stuff. Unlike men.

I've not RTFT but this is a must read for the history of trans lobbyists:

www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-document-that-reveals-the-remarkable-tactics-of-trans-lobbyists?msclkid=d6cb0a28aae711ecb957ef840fb6188c

IMO the letters after LGB have quite different needs and issues. LGB are sexualities, based on sex. Some trans activists are actively trying to stop LGB people define their sexuality by reference to sex. So I can completely understand why LGB Alliance has formed.
lgballiance.org.uk/

Quite frankly, the sooner everyone realises the idea of men becoming women or vice versa is not just nonsense, but potentially harmful the better.

I cannot stand this for too much longer.

We are born as we are - either male or female.

We are attracted to the opposite sex or the same sex or even both. Fine.

We live in a world where we're stereotyped. Girls are girls, boys are boys.

We either like that or we don't.

Many of us don't like the stereotypes, the expectations, the rules, the personas we're meant to have.

That doesn't mean we were born into the 'wrong' sex. It just means you're not a 'stereotypical' male/female.

Wtf cares? Just be 'you'. Enjoy your bloody life and don't worry about trying to fit into some 'category' that you think you should have been born unto.

It's just stereotyping.

We are all individuals with a huge amount to offer. We don't need to be pink or blue. We are just ourselves. We are what our bodies are. There's no real point in denying that.

Isn't it just time to start realising that there's a lot more to being born a 'woman' and being born a 'man'?

We've got lots in common and don't need to be the typical people that society has asked us to be.

@nothingcomestonothing

Who said transwomen are not routinely using female toilets?

I think you misread my post - Fionne uses the men's toilets despite looking like Fionne does. Because Fionne isn't a dick.

Yes, my mistake. In which case this is great news. If only more transwomen would use the men's toilets so that it became normalised.

However I can understand why some transwomen don't feel safe to do this - because some men are violent and aggressive.

Gender neutral spaces are urgently needed.

The world's gone fucking mad.

In my day, a man was a man and a woman was a woman. A gay woman was attracted to women, and a gay man was attracted to men. Simple.

None of this making up names and genders for everyone that no one understands...

@Beancounter1
All men’s spaces should become gender neutral.

And throw out urinals at the same time. Dirty smelly things.

I mean, why listen to the comments of actual LGBT+ people on here when you can read what the straight people think about trans people…

‘ In my day, a man was a man and a woman was a woman. A gay woman was attracted to women, and a gay man was attracted to men. Simple.’

And you’re actually gay? I hate to break it to you but that has NEVER been the way the gay/lesbian/ bi community worked. And I say that as an old school, boring old lesbian. We have always had a spectrum.

@Allandnothing

I mean, why listen to the comments of actual LGBT+ people on here when you can read what the straight people think about trans people…

Yes you are right. The thread has drifted quite far from the OP's original two posts, where she asked how LGB people feel about the addition of T.

Although most of the posters here, who you are assuming are straight, were not talking about trans people at all. The conversation turned (as always) to women's protection from men.

This is how we keep talking past each other - one side thinks we are talking about trans people when the other side is instead talking about the dangers to women of self-ID.

I'm stopping now. Off to read something else.

"Who said transwomen are not routinely using female toilets?
They are, do, and have done for centuries."

You need to learn about the urinary leash. Women have not had access to their own public toilets "for centuries ". Women had to fight to get them. Although the way things are going now, where we are called bigots for wanting people with dicks to keep out, it looks like that urinary leash is making a comeback

@Allandnothing

I mean, why listen to the comments of actual LGBT+ people on here when you can read what the straight people think about trans people…

Would you like a detailed description of my sexuality in order that I get a say? Do you also want the number of sexual partners I have?

Who says we (posters who are GC, or against the T being included in the LGB or allowed free access to women's spaces including women's prisons by known sex offenders (FFS still cannot believe that happened once let alone more than once!) and all the other reasons we aren't too keen) are all straight?