DF giving £200k to DB

[PercyGoat]

DH & I own our house (mortgaged). We both earn good money and we work hard for it. We lack for nothing and we do treat ourselves.

My older DB lives in a house share. He hates the idea of owing money to anyone. He has a big deposit already but not enough money to buy something outright.

DF called me a few days ago. He is about to retire and his pension is not enough to cover his bills. He owns some assets (~£500k plus) in addition to main house but he does not have enough cash from pension each month. He said he also has cash savings but reluctant to spend. He did not ask but I said - don't worry i can transfer you £500 each month to help out.

Today, DM called me and said she had an argument with DF. DF is using his cash and selling some assets to buy DB £200k to buy a flat outright.

AIBU to be angry?

Are you saying your brother has a PhD? I’m not sure that’s actually less work than you’ve done by running a business. He’s just chosen a different path. Irritating that your parents are going to buy him somewhere, but you don’t sound like you were very tolerant of his perfectly reasonable more academic path.

If he’s liquidating assets so he will be eligible for more benefits it could be considered deliberate deprivation of capital.

I really feel for you OP. And I think what you are doing now is the right way to go about things. No more gifted money and they can ask DB for assistance with their internet purchases etc (it's a clear but subtle message to them).

DB is close to DF. I think DF sees some inequality in our lives. However, I worked for everything to get where I am. On the other hand, DB has had everything handed on a plate.

You’re not grabby, and I really feel for you @PercyGoat

It’s often the way in families, though. The copper, the hard worker, is seen to be OK and not need anything or be given anything. The child who asks, or learns helplessness, is given help.

Think of the parable of the prodigal son. I’ve always hated that story.

You are unreasonable to criticise your brother for staying in education, not driving or not having a partner. Those are quite judgemental things you say about him - he’s made different choices than you.

But you are not unreasonable in assuming that your brother lives with his choices, and takes the consequences.

You’re also not unreasonable to be critical of your father’s decision, and to feel that it’s unfair.

Money in families carries so much symbolic meaning. It suggests that your parents care less for you than their son; your father seems invested in a sort of patriarchal “MY SON” dynamic.

I can see your parents’ point about giving your brother his inheritance now, when he could use it. But If things were to be managed fairly I would also expect that your brother would inherit £300,000 less than you, if your parents are giving him a total of that amount.

I know you say no he's not disabled or vulnerable etc. But - I could have written this posy about my own brother, who has in the last month moved back in with my parents - yet again - at 38. He sounds EXACTLY like your brother, except he's actually been diagnosed with ADHD and other autistic traits (you wouldn't know that if you met him though) and I believe your brother just hasn't yet been diagnosed! I just accept my parents treat him like an over grown teenager cos in a way that is what he is. But saying all this i don't have the comfortable financial situation you do and my parents would never rely on me for money so... Sounds like you're doing the right thing to distance yourself from the situation and take back the offer of £500 p/m. It does sound like your brother is on the autistic spectrum though x

@PercyGoat

UPDATE: Thank you for everyone who has taken the time to comment.

I spoke with DM (who was originally against the idea). She said that DF has explained to her it was the right thing to do for inheritance tax purposes, and she actually agrees after looking at the figures. DB is living in a house share and they really want to see him in his own house. And for the bombshell... the £200k and an additional £100k gifted/saved over the years will be used as deposit towards a proper house for him!!!

So DB ends up with a bigger deposit and potentially more expensive house than me. I know it's not a competition... but I worked since I was 15. DB did not work a single day in his life until he was 35!!!

I know I sound grabby... but I'm the one who has always helped in the family business. Anyway... I'm distancing myself from the whole situation as there is nothing I can do.

This post shows you in a bad light, I’m afraid. I was supporting you until this. You want to show how well you’ve worked and want your brother to continue living in shared accommodation so everyone can see how hard working you and your DP are. You both got lucky too. Either your DP’s face fit or whatever. There’s an element of luck.

You’re doing well and settled. I don’t see anything wrong with your parents trying to create equity between the two of you. You both don’t need the same thing. It’s right for them to recognise that.

DB did not work a single day in his life until he was 35!!!

I’m assuming he did an undergraduate degree, and then a PhD? A PhD is extraordinarily hard work. If you haven’t done one you won’t realise this.

YABU in focusing on this.

*This post shows you in a bad light, I’m afraid. I was supporting you until this. You want to show how well you’ve worked and want your brother to continue living in shared accommodation so everyone can see how hard working you and your DP are. You both got lucky too. Either your DP’s face fit or whatever. There’s an element of luck.

You’re doing well and settled. I don’t see anything wrong with your parents trying to create equity between the two of you. You both don’t need the same thing. It’s right for them to recognise that*

I don't think the OP is fussed about her brother being gifted a flat, I think she's annoyed because her dad was pleading poverty and was happy to accept £500 per month from her with all intention of gifting £200k to her brother. She doesn't want her brother to live in poverty to show off, she just doesn't want to he taken for mug by her own parents!

Will be interesting what your parents expect from you both in terms of care when they're older OP! Hope you've told.your parents you're unable to give the £500 per month now.

I have similar issue so can relate.
Ditto work hard, husband and I earn good money and have not taken anything from either parents since we were about 20 (now late 30s). If we meet up with parents/family, we always pay for everything.
We give DH's DM £500 a month yet she goes off on multiple foreign holidays a year.
My parents gave my sister 25K for a deposit on a property and funded most of her wedding, whereas we covered most of our wedding costs and received no deposit funds.
Nothing is fair in life, I definitely don't begrudge my sister, she works hard too, however I do sometimes think my DH & I are taken advantage of and are deemed 'lucky' which is BS, we just work hard and long hrs.

@ExMachinaDeus

DB did not work a single day in his life until he was 35!!!

I’m assuming he did an undergraduate degree, and then a PhD? A PhD is extraordinarily hard work. If you haven’t done one you won’t realise this.

YABU in focusing on this.

If that was the case he'd have been done by age 25....

YABU you’re not financially struggling. Isn’t it nice to have parents that can help your DB out

@Hmm1234

YABU you’re not financially struggling. Isn’t it nice to have parents that can help your DB out

Helping or enabling? 300k is a hell of a lot of money to be given outright. There is zero incentive for the brother to actually stand on his own two feet.

We don't actually know that DB has done a PhD.... assuming that he has, thoubh, a PhD is hard work. it is not "extraordinarily" hard work. It also doesn't preclude you from getting a mortgage, and it certainly doesn't preclude you from buying your own clothes and train tickets.

A PhD has no relevance to him saying he can't bear the idea of owing money so doesn't want to get a mortgage but will happily accept huge financial gifts without qualms.

Ultimately OP has to ask herself: would she swap places with DB? The answer to that is a hard no. So OP can be grateful and happy with the independent life that she and her DH have built and are continuing to build for themselves, but also make it clear that she is not the one who is going to pick up the pieces, either financially or practically, of this dysfunctional family system that would see her financing her DB/DP.

We don't actually know that DB has done a PhD.... assuming that he has, thoubh, a PhD is hard work. it is not "extraordinarily" hard work. It also doesn't preclude you from getting a mortgage, and it certainly doesn't preclude you from buying your own clothes and train tickets

I’m assuming you’ve never met anyone with a PhD. It’s incredibly taxing and it most certainly precludes you from getting a mortgage. Even if you could somehow scrape a deposit together, there’s no way you’d meet the income threshold.

I know several people with phd’s (in science subjects). They all manage to have mortgages and buy their own clothes. They’re all women.

@Blossomtoes

We don't actually know that DB has done a PhD.... assuming that he has, thoubh, a PhD is hard work. it is not "extraordinarily" hard work. It also doesn't preclude you from getting a mortgage, and it certainly doesn't preclude you from buying your own clothes and train tickets

I’m assuming you’ve never met anyone with a PhD. It’s incredibly taxing and it most certainly precludes you from getting a mortgage. Even if you could somehow scrape a deposit together, there’s no way you’d meet the income threshold.

What on earth are you talking about? Do a PhD, get a job. Get a mortgage. Never seen any small print saying 'If you have a PhD you are not eligible for our mortgage products.'

But it's more about how unfair it all is.

OP that’s life I’m afraid. It’s not fair at all and we can’t force others to make decisions on the basis of fairness. You’ve said you’re comfortably off so just be thankful of your own financial stability and life, that’s all you can do. As a parent it’s natural to help the child who’s struggling the most, your parents want you and your DB to both have a good life.

Oh highly amusing @titchy. I meant while you are doing a PhD. I thought it was obvious, completely forgetting this is MN.

I’m assuming you’ve never met anyone with a PhD

Erm. Plenty. Who buy their own clothes and train tickets and even some with mortgages.

@Summerfun54321

But it's more about how unfair it all is.

OP that’s life I’m afraid. It’s not fair at all and we can’t force others to make decisions on the basis of fairness. You’ve said you’re comfortably off so just be thankful of your own financial stability and life, that’s all you can do. As a parent it’s natural to help the child who’s struggling the most, your parents want you and your DB to both have a good life.

And because of that they have now lost a daughter.

@Blossomtoes

Oh highly amusing *@titchy*. I meant while you are doing a PhD. I thought it was obvious, completely forgetting this is MN.

So why the comment then? Obviously students can't get mortgages, but this bloke sounds like he did a PhD straight after his UG, or possibly a Masters then the PhD. Which if that was the case means he'd have finished by aged 26.

The reason he hasn't got a mortgage is because he was unemployed till he was 35!

I'm not sure I'd describe one as 'incredibly taxing' either tbh. Hard work yes, but not mind-blowingly genius level amazing. (I work with many many many people with PhDs.)

I'd have told Daddy dearest to cough up the 500 you gave him! I'm the most successful of four children and I've been given the shaft compared to my siblings. I want to just confront my parents and ask them 'Why?' but whatever answer they would give me won't satisfy me unless they said 'We don't like you!" Anyhow I've distanced myself emotionally and physically and will not be a carer for them (many reasons)

It seems a bit deceptive that your DF didn’t tell you about his intention to buy your DB a flat. I don’t think I’d have agreed to give him £500 every month under those circumstances.

Op I've read your posts and I think you need to speak up that you are feeling hurt and used.