DF giving £200k to DB

[PercyGoat]

DH & I own our house (mortgaged). We both earn good money and we work hard for it. We lack for nothing and we do treat ourselves.

My older DB lives in a house share. He hates the idea of owing money to anyone. He has a big deposit already but not enough money to buy something outright.

DF called me a few days ago. He is about to retire and his pension is not enough to cover his bills. He owns some assets (~£500k plus) in addition to main house but he does not have enough cash from pension each month. He said he also has cash savings but reluctant to spend. He did not ask but I said - don't worry i can transfer you £500 each month to help out.

Today, DM called me and said she had an argument with DF. DF is using his cash and selling some assets to buy DB £200k to buy a flat outright.

AIBU to be angry?

Stop helping out.

Df and dB are using you

I’m glad you’ve decided to distance yourself OP. No idea what’s going on in your parents minds.

What did your parents say when you told them how hurt you were?

To me, from your descriptions, your db screams undiagnosed asc. if he has successfully completed a PhD, he is not lazy. Would you rather have your life than his? His life does not sound easy or happy, no matter how much support he gets.

Personally I would not begrudge him any support but would need my parents to understand how the imbalance was making me feel.

@ExMachinaDeus

DB did not work a single day in his life until he was 35!!!

I’m assuming he did an undergraduate degree, and then a PhD? A PhD is extraordinarily hard work. If you haven’t done one you won’t realise this.

YABU in focusing on this.

If he's 35 he's had over a decade to complete his PhD, if he has one. Not that it's particularly relevant to the OPs point about unequal treatment and rewarding her brother's lack of basic adulting.

I know several people with PhDs and they've all done them combined with a professional job, ie it was their job or part of it to do the PhD and they received a salary for it.

Now obviously this was peanuts by MN standards but they all had mortgages and many were married, with families and often the main earner, you know, normal grown ups.

Oh, and seeing as we're playing PhD top trumps about how all consuming it is, I know someone in her late 20s who has completed a PhD in a physical science and had 2 DC along the way. In English which is her third language.

Your mum is the one being fucked over here, not you.

Well, both are, but mum much more so. Mum should get legal advice and on MN!

I agree that the OP is NOT unreasonable in her sense of the unfairness (and innate sexism, I suspect) of her father's actions.

But she's out of order in some of her judgemental comparisons between her hard work, her car ownership, her choices about partner & family, and her brother's not working hard, not driving, not having a partner. If he studied at university, he has worked hard. He's made different life choices than the OP. She's UNreasonable to be so judgemental about them.

But her brother should take the consequences of his decisions, actions and choices.

On that ground, the OP IS reasonable to be angry & hurt that her father seems to be facilitating her brother's lack of desire or gumption to support himself, and that her parents are subsidising & indeed encouraging her brother's lack of adult responsibility.

However, it really sounds as though the OP's brother is ASD, and if he is neuro-atypical, doing 'normal' adult things might be rather difficult for him.

The situation is still extremely unfair to the OP - but she really shouldn't assume the moral high ground just on the basis of her brother undertaking education etc.

It's not a simple right/wrong situation - although that's hard for MN to cope with

Once again the slightest inclination of an adult failing to adult and The MN Drs are our diagnosing Autsim.

It really is a simple right/wrong it's £300K

Not £50. Not a loan.

A life changing sum of money to the kid with the penis.

Why don’t you go farther and get them to give you your inheritance now too?

However, it really sounds as though the OP's brother is ASD, and if he is neuro-atypical, doing 'normal' adult things might be rather difficult for him.

Pretty sure my DF had this. Didn't stop him working or taking out a mortgage to buy a house. Or him getting married and having children.

@AskingforaBaskin I completely agree with you.

This happens so often in family's and it's not just driven by fathers, mothers are just as culpable.

The older you are the more people have experience of this.

But it is still going on.

I house shared with a nurse 30 years ago and she came from a farming background.
500 acres of superb land and everything was handed to her brother plus all the healthy bank accounts.

She wasn't given a penny.

But when her mother needed long term care in the home her father expected her to hand in her notice that day and return and give up her life in the city.

She didn't entertain it for a moment, she had a house and a morgage to pay and it wasn't happening.
Her father said they would pay the morgage payments for her but she refused as she insisted it had been made clear to her that she had to pay her own way and she hadn't a notion of giving up her job.

Her family were embarrassed that they had to get local help as she wasn't coming home to do it at a drop of a hat.

Her parents had always preferred her brother and that was it.

She made her life in the city and stayed there.

Fortunately her brother was decent and I think felt guilty afterward her parents death and gifted her 5 lovely acres by the sea, which she didn't hesitate to accept. She has a lovely little summer house there and there are sites for children if they want them.

Just a pity her parents wouldn't have wanted to give her even the smallest of inheritance with all they had.

Very fxxked up in my view.

"Pretty sure my DF had this. Didn't stop him working or taking out a mortgage to buy a house. Or him getting married and having children."

But I'm sure you'll know it's a spectrum. Knowing one person with ASC doesn't mean you know everyone with ASC.

Fair enough. However, neither do we know where the brother sits on the spectrum.

I'm immensely comfortable with a parent helping out one child more than another. of my own two children, one just came into the world more likely to succeed, a little more intellectual horsepower, a lot more interpersonal skills and 'drive', this was obvious to me from the cradle, it's neither of their 'fault'.

but this situation, one child funding a parent to fund the other child, is a bit different. really it's up to the parent to do whatever they reasonably can to give their kids a good start in life, but when their own reserves of help are exhausted that's it, neither sibling owes the other anything.

This is a challenging dilemma. Why has he done this without acceptance from DM? Also what are the terms. Is it a loan? To be paid back like a mortgage. Is it his inheritance early and will his will reflect that? Is it an outright gift? You need more detail. If it’s an outright give then I would be reflecting on the £500 a month. Only stepping in when the assets have depleted. Think of it like having your inheritance early as he may run through his money.
And try having an open and honest conversation with DM. Please do not fall out over money.

Sorry I meant conversation with DF.

I'd have a family meeting discuss it all in open everyone there so everyone clear and nothing festering etc

@TheSilveryTinsellyPussycat

However, it really sounds as though the OP's brother is ASD, and if he is neuro-atypical, doing 'normal' adult things might be rather difficult for him.

Pretty sure my DF had this. Didn't stop him working or taking out a mortgage to buy a house. Or him getting married and having children.

Yes it stops some from ever uttering a word. It’s a spectrum after all. What’s your point?

If 300k is only being used a deposit on this house, how on earth is he going to afford mortgage payments? Must be a pretty big house for that to be just a deposit. I guess they will end up paying his mortgage too rather than teaching him to fend for himself.

This has made me really angry on your behalf OP!

Have you spoken to your parents about how incredibly unfair this is?

£500K plus a pension is more than enough to retire on. Why are you sending him £500 to pay directly to your brother? If he lives another 25 years thats £20,000 a year on top of his pension your mum will also have her pension. Even if they dont have private pensions and only have the new state pension which is £185 each per week thats nearly another £20,000 a year so they should be able to manage on £40,000.

@mybiggestfan

£500K plus a pension is more than enough to retire on. Why are you sending him £500 to pay directly to your brother? If he lives another 25 years thats £20,000 a year on top of his pension your mum will also have her pension. Even if they dont have private pensions and only have the new state pension which is £185 each per week thats nearly another £20,000 a year so they should be able to manage on £40,000.

She’s stopped the £500. The state pension is £9k a year, not £20k - I wish. It’s none of her business what her parents do with their money.

Yes it stops some from ever uttering a word.

so no PhD for them then.