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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

DF giving £200k to DB

250 replies

PercyGoat · 21/03/2022 21:53

DH & I own our house (mortgaged). We both earn good money and we work hard for it. We lack for nothing and we do treat ourselves.

My older DB lives in a house share. He hates the idea of owing money to anyone. He has a big deposit already but not enough money to buy something outright.

DF called me a few days ago. He is about to retire and his pension is not enough to cover his bills. He owns some assets (~£500k plus) in addition to main house but he does not have enough cash from pension each month. He said he also has cash savings but reluctant to spend. He did not ask but I said - don't worry i can transfer you £500 each month to help out.

Today, DM called me and said she had an argument with DF. DF is using his cash and selling some assets to buy DB £200k to buy a flat outright.

AIBU to be angry?

OP posts:
Blossomtoes · 21/03/2022 22:54

@ChazsBrilliantAttitude

He needs to take proper advice on issues like deprivation of assets should either of them need long term care. He should also consider if there are Inheritance Tax issues.
If he’s got a house and £500k he’s going to be able to buy an awful lot of care before deprivation of assets becomes a problem. And there’s no IHT issue if he lives for seven years.
ssd · 21/03/2022 22:56

Why would you even offer your dad money when he's got plenty? You both sound like you've got more money than sense.

Babyroobs · 21/03/2022 22:58

Surely your df needs to be careful about giving away these sums of money ? What if he becomes ill and needs care ?

Blossomtoes · 21/03/2022 23:00

@Babyroobs

Surely your df needs to be careful about giving away these sums of money ? What if he becomes ill and needs care ?
If that happens he’s still got plenty left.
eldora · 21/03/2022 23:00

Speak to your DF asap and say how unfair this is.

Don’t let this happen quietly.

They can still do it but they will know they are screwing you over.

Enzbear · 21/03/2022 23:01

In that case whilst your DF is liquidising his assets he will need to live off his cash savings. He really should have planned better and cashed in some of his assets first instead of involving you. Are you the sensible, dependable, stable one that gets taken advantage of?

tkwal · 21/03/2022 23:02

Is the money a loan to your brother ? Is he going to repay it as he would a mortgage but at a miniscule or zero interest rate ? That could be a way of your Dad getting himself a monthly income without any tax implications for himself or your brother. As long as they sign a contract I would be OK with that. I most definitely wouldn't carry through with your offer. That could have landed you with a tax bill too. You are allowed to gift £3000 a year to a member of your family tax free but you or your Dad would have had an additional £1200 to pay

ScribblingPixie · 21/03/2022 23:02

Your poor mum. That's not fair on her - and he's doing it without her agreement. You should tell your brother that he shouldn't accept the money, that he's literally taking your parents' retirement income and security if they become frail.

contrelamontre · 21/03/2022 23:06

You and your husband own a house, earn well and treat yourselves. Your older sibling is in a house share (and therefore I assume single) and your dad is wondering what he did wrong with your DB and why he hasn't been able to to sort himself out and is trying to make good. It's not 'fair'. It's not that your parents love you less. It's that they worry about him more. Your DF feels you don't need it as much as your DB. I would try to come to terms with that but also let it guide what you do in terms of time and financial support that puts any sort of strain on you and your DH.

But the KEY thing here is that your DM is not comfortable with this for their sake and not your brother's. That is actually what is a big issue here and you need to help your DM stand up for herself and what's right for her and her husband.

vdbfamily · 21/03/2022 23:07

my parents helped my youngest brother but our his wife when she left him( so that he and the kids could stay in family home) It seemed like the right thing to do and I trusted then as usually quite fair. Years later, they downsized and have me the same amount they had given him just to even things out. That enable us to buy a bigger house at a time we needed more space. Maybe they will balance out wills to reflect the gift.

mumwon · 21/03/2022 23:16

here's news to all those people who hand over more than £3000 (each partner/wife) to their adult child - inheritance tax - www.saga.co.uk/magazine/money/personal-finance/giving/tax-and-gifting-money-to-children

Blossomtoes · 21/03/2022 23:19

[quote mumwon]here's news to all those people who hand over more than £3000 (each partner/wife) to their adult child - inheritance tax - www.saga.co.uk/magazine/money/personal-finance/giving/tax-and-gifting-money-to-children[/quote]
Here’s news for you. People with that sort of money are well aware of the tax implications and the need to stay alive for seven years after they’ve handed the money over.

mumwon · 21/03/2022 23:19

re deprivation of assets care has enormous costs
nursing homes cost upwards of a thousand a week

MrsClatterbuck · 21/03/2022 23:21

What age are your parents are they claiming their state pension yet? £300k over 30 years is £10k a year which isn't much to live on but maybe doable if they have 2 state pensions. I'm assuming he has a private pension of sorts. They will also need some savings for things that need replacing in relation to the house plus a car if needed. Noone knows of course how long they will live or if they will need care. I take that your brother works. It's one thing to help with his deposit to get him on the housing ladder but another thing entirely to fund him a flat and thereby decimating his retirment funds. If I was your DM I would be furious

mumwon · 21/03/2022 23:22

@Blossomtoes many are not & if his money in property rather than cash & his high handed approach to his wife ... mmm

Blossomtoes · 21/03/2022 23:26

@mumwon

re deprivation of assets care has enormous costs nursing homes cost upwards of a thousand a week
And only 10% of people ever need to pay for care.
Nancydrawn · 21/03/2022 23:34

The money he's liquidating is worth about 33 years of your monthly deposits. I'd be furious. Not because you want anyone to suffer, but because generosity and thoughtfulness cannot be a one-way street.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 21/03/2022 23:38

Blossomtoes
Just because many people don’t need care doesn’t mean he shouldn’t think about the issue. If he is in good health then fine but if they both had underlying conditions then in 5 years time it might be an issue.
This is someone who can’t pay their bills without selling assets so maybe they aren’t quite as financially savvy as you think.
Why doesn’t he have sufficient income generating assets to bridge the difference between his pension and outgoings.

We are comfortable with assets and we make damn sure those assets are earning for us.

Blossomtoes · 21/03/2022 23:45

Why doesn’t he have sufficient income generating assets to bridge the difference between his pension and outgoings

I don’t know because none of this makes any sense whatsoever to me. Half a million in assets would, you’d think, generate around £20-25k even if it was very conservatively invested. More if it was in property. It just doesn’t add up.

WickedWitchOfTheEast87 · 21/03/2022 23:50

Although its your DF choice to do this OP I'd be fuming and very hurt if my dad did this! No offence OP but your DF sounds like a cheeky fucker and a bit manipulative to ring you plead poverty so you offer money to him and then he decides to buy your DB a flat as a gift. Plus he has half a million pounds in assets so he's hardly cash strapped! Get that £500 back ASAP and tell him straight if he can afford 200k for a flat he can afford to support himself!

DowntonCrabby · 22/03/2022 00:06

Of course YANBU but I’m astounded by your thought process when offering a pensioner with £500k in assets “help” of £500pm Confused

Obviously pull out of that offer immediately in the basis of DF essentially depriving himself for your DB.

AnnesBrokenSlate · 22/03/2022 00:14

I can't work out if you're annoyed because you offered to give him £500 each month - you shouldn't be annoyed about this - you made the offer.

or if you're annoyed that he's eating into his assets/savings.

of if you're annoyed because you think he should give you both the same amount of money.

You don't seem to know enough about the detail to be annoyed and if you're comfortable enough to be able to pay your DF £500 per month, why would you want a share of your DF's assets? You don't need it.

Musicalmaestro · 22/03/2022 00:24

Your DF has enough assets to gift money to your brother and fund his own bills unless he is living in a huge old heap of a house.
I think his plan may be to gift your brother money for his flat early, to circumvent the deprivation of assets issue, which makes sense to me.
I understand your anxiety, but I would encourage you to discuss it further with your parents. If I were your DF I would be adjusting my will so that the gift to your DB meant that you had a larger inheritance.

BambinaJAS · 22/03/2022 00:25

£200k is far over the gift limits. Your DB would have to pay tax on that income.

The only way this works is if your DF buys the house himself (cash), and puts your DB on the deed.

johnd2 · 22/03/2022 00:27

Honestly the issue here is that your father mentioned his feelings about his financial situation, then you responded by setting up a long term financial support without being asked which is odd and sounds like you are trying to be the rescuer where none is required.

but the real issue is you expected to have financial control over what he spends it on.
Either give money unsolicited or don't, but don't complain if you don't like what a another independent person spends money on.
You are struggling to deal with this because you are trying to be financially controlling whether you intend to or not.