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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Reservations over Dads new will?

184 replies

MsMiaWallace · 20/03/2022 21:13

After a conversation with my dad this morning he informed me he was renewing his will following a health scare.

My Dad is currently retired, is very comfortable. Mortgage free 3 bed semi, owns a narrowboat & has around £70k if not more in his account.
He has a partner who lives with him.
She basically lives off him, barely works or contributes. This is how it has been since she met him.

I never challenge this as he's happy with the situation & it's his choice.
They've been together around 4 years. Since meeting her he has distanced from us & we were close.

This morning he told me that he is changing his will so although his house would be mine she has to stay at the property until she chooses to leave.
Again his choice however I am concerned that it is a large house. She's in her 60s & will be too big for her to maintain alone therefore I will have to upkeep the property whilst she continues to live there rent free?
I also have my own mortgage to pay, family to look after etc whilst doing this.
He told me I would be the landlord but without the rent.
She also has a son that will likely move in with her who also does not contribute.

I absolutely respect that it's his choice but
AIBU here to have reservations about this situation?

OP posts:
Donra · 21/03/2022 12:25

My Aunty is the partner in this situation. She lived with a man for 25 years, cooked and cleaned for him, and looked after him when he was dying of cancer. He left the house to his sons with a life interest for my Aunty. The sons are annoyed about the hassle, they want her out so they can sell the house, get the money and be relieved of the responsibility. My Aunty has to maintain and insure the house.

She’s very unhappy. She doesn’t want to live there but has no money to move anywhere else. If she moves out she gets nothing. She would like to move back to our home town to be near our family but she can’t. She struggles with the stairs now and would prefer to move to a bungalow but can’t, so she sleeps in the living room. She’s pointed out to his sons that if it wasn’t for her there would be no house at all, because their father would have had to go into care and they would have taken the house to pay his fees. They’re still being mean, they just want rid of her. It’s a bad situation for everyone involved.

Quartz2208 · 21/03/2022 12:35

[quote HELLITHURT]@Quartz2208 who said she was a trustee? It is not her place to sit down with a solicitor and her father, it is his money and he can do whatever he sees fit.[/quote]
Yes and he is - but she has to know exactly what she is taking on which is the whole point of this thread.

It is entirely up to him what he does but the OP needs to know the legal implications of it and exactly what he is expecting in order to avoid potential cost and tax issues

Nancydrawn · 21/03/2022 12:54

I like the suggestion of a previous poster. What if you sat down and told your father that rather than doing this, you'd prefer that the house be sold immediately and the proceeds split?

I assume he'd be concerned that she wouldn't have a place to live and that the sum wouldn't be enough for her to live on...but then again, how is he expecting her to pay for the upkeep, maintenance, council tax, etc.?

Is it possible to have a generous, non-emotive conversation with your father--or is this something he'll be put off by?

MayMorris · 21/03/2022 12:54

@NeedleNoodle3

Try not to think about it, there’s nothing you can do. I assume your dad’s partner will care for your dad if he needs it when he’s older if they are still together.
Whoa😱🤦‍♀️ Very bad advice Her father is potentially landing her with massive bills for maintenance, decor etc and giving her all the responsibilities for being a landlord, but without any rental income to pay for it. For an indefinite period of time. This is not Ok. It could cost her thousands in liabilities for the mother and son to trust the house badly and expect her to repair it. Absolutely not a good idea to ignore. She must get the father to understand he is dumping a burden on her for the lifetime of this women. He seems to have completely ignored this. There needs to be a trust to state that the women and son are mutually and individually liable for all repair and maintenance whilst they are staying there and ensure that the house is in good condition when they leave ….not leaving damp ingress, poor roofing etc. she also must consider what will happen to capital gains tax if the house is hers but she can’t sell. If she inherited immediately she can sell and dispose of as part of estate and pay inheritance tax if required. As long as she sells quickly there is unlikely to be much capital gain over the annual allowance. If however she is forced to keep the house, in her name, for 20 years and then tries to sell, she will in theory be liable for capital gains on any capital increase on house form point it was valued at father deaths (as at of probate) to what is worth by then. She must find out how this works or could be left with a massive capital gains tax that if she sold the house at his death and invested it in tax efficient savings she would not be hit with this (e.g. ISA, pension, Premium bonds). There are massive implications to hit her hard financially at time when she will not receive any benefit form this “inheritance” . Burying her head in the sand is extremely bad advice.
MayMorris · 21/03/2022 13:04

@MsMiaWallace

I don't even know if he is doing a life interest trust. As he said it will be hers to live in until she chooses to leave.
This is the issue. He must not be allowed to do this without that trust, so that you aren’t hit with maintenance and repair bills that you don’t have money for. You must explain this to him. You must get a solicitor to draw the terms up correctly. It is also in this womens interest to see the solicitor and do it properly. There is another poster here who points out the other common problem . The lifetime trust doesn’t allow someone to move to alternative accommodation even if they are struggling to stay in house. Good contracts should allow for this (unless the house has sentimental value), with your input and approval. E.g. allowing her to downsize into a Sheltered house in later life, releasing some equity to you at the time. But you need a veto if the place she wants to move into would be hard to sell on as they often are in pensioner villages. These types of arrangements are so liable to too many issues and problems that tie people up and cause a lot of heartache and financial problems later. Not,least of which he is giving you both a lifetime obligation to each other , she was not your step mum, or relative and tell completely out of order for him to impose this on you. Much better for him to rethink and go for a clean break so you don’t need to be involved with this women for next xxx years. He is tying both
AllOfUsAreDead · 21/03/2022 13:15

@Quartz2208

Its not totally about his partner, but she could be the influence here for this. But yes it's her dad's reluctance to discuss it and to sort this out to protect his daughter that is the problem. He's not going to do that from the sounds of it, he could be leaving his daughter with a major hassle, debt and many problems, all for a woman he has known for a tiny portion of his life.

Original poster
MsMiaWallace · 21/03/2022 13:23

Not sure where I would stand if she did move a new partner in?

OP posts:
AdaColeman · 21/03/2022 13:55

@MsMiaWallace

Not sure where I would stand if she did move a new partner in?
The will should be drawn up in such a way as to prohibit this. Many divorces include a clause stating that cohabiting or marriage with a new partner terminates the right to remain in the property. It's a standard thing obviously.

It would be far better for you if your Father left you the narrow boat, and his partner the house. While the boat would be worth less than the house, you could sell it immediately, with no possible financial commitment for years ahead.

Cheeserton · 21/03/2022 14:12

This would never actually stand up. You can't impose huge obligations and expenses on people involuntarily with a will. I strongly suspect you could find your way out later if necessary.

Changechangychange · 21/03/2022 15:48

@Cheeserton

This would never actually stand up. You can't impose huge obligations and expenses on people involuntarily with a will. I strongly suspect you could find your way out later if necessary.
The problem is that the way out is to give up your right to the house, ie hand it over to the partner. And if the house is worth a reasonable amount (or if there is bad blood with the stepmother), people don’t generally want to do that.
balalake · 21/03/2022 16:07

YANBU to have reservations, and in your shoes I would definitely prefer the house to be sold with split proceeds. The son might move in for the best of reasons such as helping his mother if she cannot manage by herself, but then once his mother dies, where does he go?

godmum56 · 21/03/2022 17:10

@MayMorris
"he must not be allowed"

who is going to stop him?

brainhurts · 21/03/2022 18:02

I think the solicitor will make sure it's left in trust , his partner can stay for as long as she wants but must pay for the upkeep of the house .
Say for example your dad died then not long after you did , the house would then be passed to your beneficiary, they like you should not be a obligated to pay expenses on the house .

MayMorris · 21/03/2022 18:40

[quote godmum56]@MayMorris
"he must not be allowed"

who is going to stop him?[/quote]
She can refuse. Ultimately she can refuse to inherit or act as executor. I’m not sure she is in that situation though- it just sounds like a half cock idea by someone who really hasn’t thought it through.
She does not have to accept being burdened with it

MsTSwift · 21/03/2022 18:49

Some posters need to calm down! A properly drafted will ensures that the partner pays the maintenance and bills herself or alternatively the residue of the estate does - not the op.

Other option is he gives her a right of occupation which terminates on a specific specified date say 2 or 5 years after death and she is given some money from the sale to rehouse herself.

A life interest trust is better if they married for the tax benefit - a right of occupation better for unmarried but it’s up to him of course. He can give her the right to sell and buy somewhere else which the trust would own if he wants.

Also if he cut the partner out completely she would have a claim anyway as they living together she could argue he was supporting her and hadn’t made proper provision for her.

HELLITHURT · 21/03/2022 19:00

@MsTSwift

Some posters need to calm down! A properly drafted will ensures that the partner pays the maintenance and bills herself or alternatively the residue of the estate does - not the op.

Other option is he gives her a right of occupation which terminates on a specific specified date say 2 or 5 years after death and she is given some money from the sale to rehouse herself.

A life interest trust is better if they married for the tax benefit - a right of occupation better for unmarried but it’s up to him of course. He can give her the right to sell and buy somewhere else which the trust would own if he wants.

Also if he cut the partner out completely she would have a claim anyway as they living together she could argue he was supporting her and hadn’t made proper provision for her.

The voice of reason!
Quartz2208 · 21/03/2022 19:18

Well yes exactly a properly drafted will is exactly what is needed. And what the OP has a right to ask her father if he is doing it properly.

The risk is that the father is going ahead with something without doing it properly and from some of the things that the OP says either she isnt getting how he is doing it properly or he isnt doing it properly

AllOfUsAreDead · 22/03/2022 11:42

@MsTSwift

Some posters need to calm down! A properly drafted will ensures that the partner pays the maintenance and bills herself or alternatively the residue of the estate does - not the op.

Other option is he gives her a right of occupation which terminates on a specific specified date say 2 or 5 years after death and she is given some money from the sale to rehouse herself.

A life interest trust is better if they married for the tax benefit - a right of occupation better for unmarried but it’s up to him of course. He can give her the right to sell and buy somewhere else which the trust would own if he wants.

Also if he cut the partner out completely she would have a claim anyway as they living together she could argue he was supporting her and hadn’t made proper provision for her.

But that's the problem isnt it? Op doesn't know if it's been properly done, she hasn't seen the will and her dad is refusing to talk about it. Would you be happy to just leave it and wait and see if you had to pay bills on a house you couldn't live in for 20+ years potentially?
beachcitygirl · 22/03/2022 12:00

@AllOfUsAreDead
That's the thing tho, she doesn't Have to do anything.

She can say no thank you.
But she wants her dads money.
Therein lies the dichotomy.

Grabby is as grabby does.

MsTSwift · 22/03/2022 12:02

No I wouldn’t worry because you are being ridiculous the op cannot be under a legal obligation to pay for the bills and up keep for a house out of her own money. This is a complex will only a professional would attempt to draft it. But crack on it’s much more fun being aggrieved and morally outraged on the ops behalf!

Starlitexpress · 22/03/2022 12:18

Hi,
I agree, this all needs to get sorted for both your sakes.

I knew someone who's mother left her the house but partner had life tenancy. Everyone was happy with this as it was assumed he would stay a few years before finding somewhere more suitable. He didn't.

She had this huge asset but couldn't get a mortgage for herself , he wasn't maintaining it beyond the bare minimum and it would upset her going past looking at her mother's garden covered in rubbish and weeds.

I would certainly go with a time limit she can stay there, or it is sold and she gets a small lump sum to set her up on her own

AllOfUsAreDead · 22/03/2022 12:29

@MsTSwift

No I wouldn’t worry because you are being ridiculous the op cannot be under a legal obligation to pay for the bills and up keep for a house out of her own money. This is a complex will only a professional would attempt to draft it. But crack on it’s much more fun being aggrieved and morally outraged on the ops behalf!
So why have other posters said that there has been situations where maintenance and/or bills end up getting paid by the person who inherited, not the person allowed to stay in the house?

The best situation is that op doesn't have any worries, nothing extra to pay and her dad's partner is liable for everything. But she isn't convinced of that. Rather than just saying we are all being ridiculous, maybe provide some proof that op definitely won't be liable? That would alleviate her fears then and solve the issue without her having to get solicitors involved.

bracebrace · 22/03/2022 12:43

Don't be too mean about the whole thing op or he might just leave it to her!

70kid · 22/03/2022 12:48

My parents will had a life interest possession ( think that’s what it was )
When my mum passed away her half was left in trust for my sister and son
My dad still had to maintain the property

I don’t think there was a clause about anyone else not living in the property with my dad

It still cost money to get a solicitor to update the jabs registry

I know you can do this yourself but i wanted it done properly as I was the executor of my mums will

As you may have to go on the deeds when your dad pass away this can possibly cause problems if you are a first time buyer or already have a home

crosstalk · 22/03/2022 12:49

It's up to OP's father to do what he wants.

However, his lady may remarry and then leave the rights to her deceased husband's home to both her son and the children of her new husband.
At the moment it looks as if OP's dad has circumvented that by leaving the house to OP as owner and landlord after death but with a burden of upkeep which -should she live to 90 - is a lot of hassle, especially with the son there who could argue that he cannot be ejected by a landlord.

OP, I would take his will to your own solicitor.